Of a short period of time. I want to say right now we have our second hearing next tuesday on the Affordable Care act. Thank you everyone for joining us and thank you to the staff. We are holding this hearing virtually in compliance with regulations for Remote Committee proceedings and as resolution 965. This is my first hearing is chairman of the subcommittee on oversight and my First Official virtual oversight subcommittee hearing in the ways and Means Committee. Before return to todays important topic i want to remind members of a few procedures while we navigate this platform. First, consistent with regulations, the committee will keep microphones muted to limit background music and noise. Members are responsible for muting themselves when they seek recognition or when recognized for 5 minutes. Second, the members and witnesses must have their cameras on at all times so even if you leave for a second or few moments, leave your camera on. Third, we will dispense with the practice of observing and go in order of seniority for questioning, alternating between minority and majority, and beginning with numbers of the oversight committee. After all members have asked a question, we will move in the order to all subcommittee members. Objection, the chair will serve in a result that i experienced technical difficulties. Thank you for your continued patience as we navigate the technology in order to continue serving our country together in this great time of need. With that, i will now turn to the important topic of todays hearing. Taxpayer fairness. Our hearing today will focus on the issue of taxpayer fairness. I welcome my colleagues and witnesses. The firste this is subcommittee hearing since the passing of our friend and colleague john lewis. John was the lead democratic member on the subcommittee for the past 15 years. I selected the Oversight Panel when i first joined the committee in 2007 because i wanted to work with john. He led this subcommittee with the same grace and sense of purpose of which he led his life. I obviously cannot fill his shoes, and while our styles are not identical, i will do everything in my power to make john proud. As the subcommittee charged with conducting oversight programs, our jurisdiction focuses on one of the most critical components of american government, our voluntary tax system. To start, the United States has had an excellent record of compliance because americans dutifully pay their taxes, assuming the system is fair for all. Whether you are rich as rockefeller or a regular joe. For five years, the president has refused to disclose his tax returns. Trump has broken with the history of every president since president nixon and sabotaged public faith in taxes. Led congresshave effort to bring some light to President Trumps business and personal tax returns. The law is clear. Code 26 United States section 61o3, the committee is absolutely entitled to see mr. Trumps returns. It is our responsibility to restore the Publics Trust in our system, by ensuring the president s returns are impartial and without political implications. Our chairman formally requested mr. Trumps returns in april of 2019. , secretarytration mnuchin, and the irs omission or refused our request. They have been raking a law for now for 555 days. The house issued a subpoena. Are is another area that subcommittee will be looking into, subpoena powers under the constitution. Under the rules of the house. The house has requested the tax returns but are being stonewalled by a political partisan judge. Just two weeks ago, the New York Times reported that selfproclaimed billionaire, President Trump, paid 750 dollars in taxes in 2017 and 2018. In the 10 previous years, he paid no taxes reportedly. I would like that deal. We have teachers, police officers, firefighters, technologists, and School Bus Drivers that pay more in taxes. How do they feel when they see their leader pays less than they do . A tax system that lets a supposed billionaire pay less than teachers, secretaries and custodians is broken. That is why we are holding todays hearing, and i want everyone watching us to know, i personally invited the irs commissioner to join us today, and he refused. I wonder why . What is he afraid of . Why is donald trump afraid to disclose his tax voluntarily . Is it because when we learn the true source of the president s socalled wealth is not clean, or what dark figures he might be holding to . We have an excellent panel of witnesses, like we have an Excellent Group of members here. Both sides of the aisle. I look forward to their testimony. First, i want to yield to my friend, mr. Kelly of pennsylvania, for the purposes of an opening statement. We have worked and served together on this committee eight years now, and i look forward to working with you in this new capacity. Two i, mr. Kelly. Rep thank you, mr. Kelly. Unmute yourself. Mr. Kelly thank you. This is the first hearing we have been able to do together. Ive got to tell you all of us know it was truly an honor to serve in the ways and Means Oversight Committee with john lewis. He was certainly an inspiration not just to us but every american. Mr. Lewis led this committee with dignity and understood the importance of our subcommittee and the role oversight played in congress with focus on making government more transparent, more efficient and more accountable to the American People. In addition to being legislators , we are americans watchdog making sure that their money and every single penny of it, their tax dollars, are being spent wisely and to their benefit. Therefore, im looking forward to continuing this important work with you, chairman, and hope we can find common areas where we can Work Together on behalf of the American People. Unfortunately, i understand today may not be that day for this great bipartisan agreement. Today, democrats will continue their relentless effort to weaponize the tax code for purely political purposes. Democrats have sought to publicize the president s tax return since day one of his presidency despite no evidence that he did anything wrong other than legitimately winning the last president ial election. This issue was furiously raised by my friends on the other side and amplified by many of their friends in the media like the New York Times. Its so much like groundhog day. Once again, with the exception of not being about phils shadow, my friends on the other side are using taxpayer money and their time to drag us through another Campaign Debate that would result resolved four years earlier in the 2016 president ial campaign. The people spoke at the ballot box with their vote and in my District Across the southern commonwealth of pennsylvania and the country. This issue, like so many others of resistance, including my friends on the other side, and other allies out there. They cannot simply let go. They have been challenging the election since 2016 relentlessly and have never accepted the outcome of it. Now, my friend, President Trump is on the ballot and across the country, folks will get a chance to decide whether he gets another term or not. Im confident they will grant the president those next four years, but why use this fine committee as an instrument of the Democratic National committee . Why put everyone through this totally partisan groundhog day exercise . What is the substance of this politically partisan groundhog event today . Unable to succeed in his efforts through proper legal channels , democrats have been unaided by taxpayerillegal information in the New York Times. An illegal likely New York Times. If this can happen to the president of the United States, it can happen to any american. Let me repeat that, if this can happen to the president of the United States, could happen to any of us. Whether we sit in the highest law of the land or the lowest place in society. [no audio] were broken and the release of this information. I asked with unanimous consent to enter both letters for the record. [no audio] rep. Pascrell your microphone is off. [no audio] your microphone is off. Rep. Kelly i am on, guys. Mine is on. Without objection that will be included in the record. Rep. Pascrell that will be included in the record what you just presented. Rep. Kelly can you hear me . Rep. Pascrell now i can. I couldnt hear you before. Rep. Kelly ok, without objection it is admitted, is that correct . Rep. Pascrell that is correct. Rep. Kelly thank you. I find the New York Times report underwhelming to say the least. Itll does not suggest any illegal behavior took place. They currently state that more information is needed to evaluate the specific transactions or items on the returns at the time allegedly received. Despite not having all the facts , which is never a problem for the times for them to write but the need for more information the times settle for insinuations with lines like this could be legally problematic. This may be problematic and that reporting is unfair and not of objective. In my book i just cant believe anybody would look at that article and say, you know what . This is a wellwritten opinion. It is not news. It is a manipulation of their outlet. This type of reporting is incredibly unfair and to not objective reporting. For example, if i wrote a check to Catholic Charities and 50 took a charitable deduction on my tax return, you could say the exact same thing. More information is needed to verify this, but it could, and it might be legally problematic. We just dont know. That is an absurd premise. Of course, you need a lot more information and that is what an audit is all about. The irs conducts an audit and if andnd it more information, makes the determination about tax filing. The president has said he is under audit, and the New York Times certainly indicates that he is under audit, and that is exactly the way the process is supposed to work. Putting public pressure and suggesting impropriety at the irs without evidence will lines the work that the irs employees do improperly puts political pressure on them to reach a particular outcome. We are weaponizing. And we know the democrats dont like the president , and that we have heard 47 months of that, and they are unhappy with the last election results. As youve heard more than 47 months of that, and so for much and so much for accepting the results of a legitimate election but in a democracy we dont go after the duly elected officials. We dont know because there hasnt been anything pointed out that the president has a serious problem with his taxes. The New York Times claims to have reviewed them and even they say they dont know for sure. We do need to let the irs employees do their work and finish their audit. They are the only Government Agency in a position to address any possible legal issues and its my understanding that both the president and Vice President tax returns are examined every year. Since day one democrats have tried to publicize the president s tax returns for their political agenda. Back in 2017, members of this committee claim that we needed to see his returns to prove the president allegedly has deep and mysterious ties to russia. Thats all we heard about from the Mainstream Media then and now it must have been disappointing when the New York Times stated very quietly that the documents it received do not reveal any previously unreported connections to russia. How sad for them. Since the investigation did not produce the results they wanted, our democratic colleagues have simply looked for other ways to weaponize the tax code. They want to attack a sitting president of the United States. This is a very dangerous procedure, one i think will set a very dangerous precedent and i fear the integrity of our tax code will suffer greatly as a result. As for the idea that the president did something wrong by paying a low amount of income taxes in a given year, give me a break. Earlier this year, we had a hearing on Corporate Income taxes and i claimed that businesses pay all sorts of federal, state and local taxes, property taxes, employment taxes, sales tax, and on and on and on. As a businessman some years i paid more taxes than others. In other years, i paid no taxes. Why . Because some years i simply was more profitable. We pay taxes on profit. Jerry picking income taxes in any given year tells a misleading story about a Business Owners tax situation. The president has paid millions and millions of dollars in all sorts of different taxes over the years. Nevertheless, democrats continue to suggest that having a lower level of income Tax Liability in any given year means the president does not care about contributing to our country. Is that true . Absolutely not. The president has donated every single paycheck as president of the United States to the federal government. So far, those donations have 1. 4 million. Hardly in it for himself. But this president has donated. Why . Going forward, i hope this committee can find constructive ways to improve the lives of the American People so their Government Works better for them and not simply for political gamesmanship. I believe our constituents want us to Work Together to solve problems and not support chief political points with innuendo, speculation and consideration. I have not seen any evidence of this perper territory of this propriety at the irs, on any infection on part of the president. I have seen an unauthorized and likely illegal leak of dr. Line rep. Pascrell michael, your overtime. Kelly you should be more concerned with that then this pursuit of the president. I will yield back, and im looking forward to a wellbalanced panel. Nice working with you. I think we are going to be hearing a lot of good things, so stay tuned. Hearing next from our panel, thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to appear before us today to discuss these very important issues. I will introduce all five witnesses and i would like to thank each of them for their testimony. Our first is ambassador norm eisen. Ambassador eisen currently chairs as a senior fellow in government studies at the brookings institution. Most recently served as a special counsel for the House Judiciary Committee in 2019 until 2020, including during President Trumps impeachment. This is the author of a new book on President Trump and weve known him well in controlling the ethics issues that occurred during the obama administration. Norm, thank you and we are ready for you. You rankingthank member kelly, members of the line ttee in to. Pascrell sorry, one it introduce all the panel. I am sorry. Our next witness will be katherine clark. Professor clark teaches at Washington University school of law in st. Louis, missouri. She specializes in ethics, government ethics about whistleblowing and National Security law. She has led anticorruption ethics workshops around the world, has provided ethics training for federal and state and local government agencies. Leandrad witness is letterman. Professor letterman teaches courses in federal tax and serves as director of tax program at the indiana University School of law and has been ranked as one of the ten most frequently cited u. S. Tax scholars. Professor letterman was recently awarded the Fulbright Research grant in her Research Focused on the transparency of tax rulings. Is steveh witness rosenthal. He serves as the senior fellow brookingsban institute in his research and his research focuses on federal income tax issues and previously served as legislation counsel for the joint committee on taxation. Witness is andy greywall. He is the professor of law at the university of iowa. He taught there since 2011 and focuses on issues related to tax , administrative, and constitutional laws. Each of your statements for the witnesses will be made a part of the record in its entirety. I would ask you summarize your testimony in five minutes or less. To help you the time, please keep an eye on the clock which should be pinned to your screen. Willu go over your time, i notify you with a tap of my gavel and let you know when there is 30 seconds left. Ambassador eisen, you may begin. Mr. Eisen thank you, again, mr. Chairman. I want to thank Ranking Member kelly, the members of the subcommittee for inviting me to testify at this important hearing on taxpayer fairness as part of this distinguished panel. Our tax system, as the chairman pointed out, favors the wealthy at the expense of the average folks. It cuts generous breaks for Investment Income and rigidly taxes income earned by people working two and even three jobs to get by. In the system a person earns less than is more likely to be 20,000 audited than someone who earns over 400,000 like much else about our tax system that makes no sense. President trumps signature 2017 tax law has made things even worse for regular americans. For example, that law inflicted 1 trillion worth of damage on homeowners by takin