Held by the Economic Club of washington, this is 50 and its. He is now only as a Senior Advisor to the joe biden president ial campaign. Attorneyurg who is an and a cnn commentator. I would like to recognize our special guests today. They are the ambassadors of singapore, liechtenstein, and other countries. I would also like to recognize our sponsors. The Title Sponsor is the bank of america. Our emerging leaders sponsors as well. Recommendso like to siemens usa. Our other corporate punters sponsors are now on your screen and i would like to thank them for their support. We have a few upcoming events. On november the 18th at 10 a. M. , we will have an event with alex gorsky. Of the johnson is one companies that is working on a virus. He is a very impressive person. I think people were really enjoyed that conversation. I will also have a conversation with another impressive person on december 9 the chief executive officer of accenture. She has been a member of the Economic Club board for sometime and we are looking forward to talking with her about her role as ceo of accenture. We are working on additional schedule items as well. We have had 16 member lead forms recently. Are interested in that, please let us know. After this interview is over, we will have our website Economic Club. Org. A full presentation. Would like to remind onryone that we are working a number of events but if there is something you would like us to present to you, please let us know and we will try to work things out with those individuals if at all possible. Now, let me introduce our special guests. Bauer. Mr. He has been in the political advocacy for quite some time. He is now teaching at nyu law school. Advisor to been an president obama and served as counsel during president obamas second term in office. He is also a graduate of Harvard University and the university of Virginia School of law. Timed mr. Ginsburg at one chaired a commission to look at ways we could improve the electoral process and that was called the president ial commission on electoral administration. Mr. Ginsburg has been a lawyer for many years. A partner in two firms and one of them is the firm he just retired from and that is jones day. Boggs where patton he was a partner for a long time. Is a graduate of university undergraduatea where he was the editorinchief of the newspaper and he was a journalist for a number of years then decided to go to law school at georgetown law school. He has written frequently on this area of political advocacy and he was one of the lawyers that were deeply involved in the bushby gore bush versus gore legislation. We will talk a little bit about that. Lets dig in and say to both of you, do either of you or both of you think that this election will be resolved in everybodys mind by midnight on Election Night next week . Am looking at you first. Can i go to sleep at midnight knowing who the next president is . With all of the press and the potential for long delays, you can be assured that sometime late on Election Night, there is a high likelihood that we will know who is winning the election. By the next day, that certainty will grow. There has been a lot of talk about how that will go on for months and months. The oval office, beginning late january this coming year, dont think that is going to be the case. You disagree with that. I dont disagree. I dont think you will get your midnight wish because of the volume of absentee ballots and the fact that we need a few states in the mountain and pacific time zones, but i do think there will be a clear idea of a winner by friday morning. Last time in the year 2000, the famous bush versus gore decision and case. It had usually been the case state courts were the ones that result election issues. In that situation federal courts got involved. Would you expect if there were any disputes the bush versus gore precedent would be such that bush versus gore and federal courts would really move would state courts go back to being the leading decisionmaker in this . First of all it is rare you get into a situation of bush versus gore and outcome determined of state had such a narrow margin. Most of the activity you are likely to see post election will be conducted under state law and state proceedings. The way the system works, begins in precincts and builds up counties and goes to the state level. Each state has its own set of laws, National Election laws governing the time, place and manner of elections. It goes to states, their courts, except in the most extreme conditions. You agree with that . I would add the bush versus gore decision was a controversial one. It raised significant institutional issues with the court. The court will be reluctant particularly in the case one of the candidates has a substantial popular vote margin for interceding in the election or the controversy of the last one. If jim baker had been the lawyer for our gore what al gore have become the president of the United States in the year 2000 . Would not be popular then. I have Great Respect did have Great Respect and continue to for jim baker and his career. Lets not forget this part. The Gore Campaign has litigated the county rules and the Supreme Court decision on those county rules, to have a recount that would likely have been successful in the state of florida. This case of bush versus gore went against gore by one vote on the Supreme Court. In compliance of jim baker, the bush benefit, from unforeseen intervention by the United States. A lot of young lawyers, ted cruz was one of them, john roberts was a, Justice Brett kavanaugh was there, Amy Coney Barrett was there. Of all those lawyers who was smartest . Every time i will answer that jim baker. That is politically correct. They would all agree. Lets suppose both of you were wrong, suppose it doesnt get resolved in the courts but in congress. Can you go through how this gets resolved in the congress, congress has to come up with the decision, what the constitution and surrounding law say . This will arise if there cant be a clear winner in the Electoral College, then we go to the electoral count act 1887 and i believe there will be two sensitive sides out of that act. It is fairly indecipherable and open to many interpretations so i think you will see novel litigation should we go to that state, it has never been litigated so was i am about to say, a caveat that comes about but basically the house and senate would be called upon to play various, and probably competing slates of electors that would emerge from the states, that gets into a very arcane process with the house, the first initial matter would have to choose which they agree with. The senate plays a role, part of the answer is whether there is control between the house and senate. Would be a lot quicker resolutions should 1party control both chambers, but ultimately there has to be a winner of the Electoral College for a new president to take office. Explain this to me, make sure i understand it. The electors meet in each state, middecember, state legislature has to approve those electors. The electors, referring to the possibility legislature in a state where it is determined by the popular vote takes the position the popular vote is contaminated by fraud and the legislature itself, to determine who the elector should be. Imagine a case where candidate a, the candidate chosen by congress, legislatures said thats not the right police produced by fraud or irregularity, to the United States congress. That is what the legislature was prepared to do, intervention in bush versus gore and that is how you end up with the electorate presented to congress and Congress Congressional battles again and there is a host of bizarre developments that go from there theoretically. By the time january 20th comes around no show less text 00 08 27 one scenario, it is so close or so clouded that there is no winning slate to come out of that, the state is unable to certify its Election Results so theres no certified slate that goes to washington, that is where the state legislatures the state legislatures have to send to the senate the names of the electors and who won in their state. Is that december . December 14th. Safe harbor. They said in december and the Vice President of the United States, if nobody gets 270 does it go to the house then . That is correct. Does it go to the new house for the new house . The new house is sworn in on january 3rd and the electoral plates are opened on january 6th. It goes to the new house, the house votes by state delegation. If california is a democratic delegation they have one vote, then they have one vote as well. Currently 26 republican state delegations, 24 democratic ones. The republicans, presumably a republican candidate would win. Is that right . That is correct. Very interesting to see nancy pelosi, Democratic CongressionalCampaign Committee target certain states where the margins and delegations are narrow, they are talking about trying in the election to win over us late. Of the house of representatives cannot agree on somebody by january 20th, the speaker of the house becomes president. Is that correct . Me but i believe the senate determines if a president isnt selected the vice presidency, the Vice President assumes office until it is resolved. To be Vice President , if they cant find somebody they cant agree, it goes to the speaker, correct . The president ial succession act. The senate might be equally muddled. Ive got to think through that. That is complicated. Both of you headed a president ial commission to look at the election. Is that your view, both of your views that theres a lot of voter fraud or there really isnt . Let me take that one first. Ive spent four decades actively involved in republican Election Day Operation which means, that go to look at problems that arise in polling places, to get all the reports from individual jurisdictions. Both parties in every polling place they wish to staff, to look for irregularities, resolve problems, and intragoal part of the system, in all the times that people have been in polling places looking for fraud, there is not evidence to sustain charges of voter fraud. There is occasional voter fraud, it is corrected, but it is occasion. You agree with that . It is surpassingly rare. Suppose it is rare but suppose he wanted to vote twice. The system works pretty well. How would you be able to vote twice, they wanted to break the lies officer of the court, but suppose you vote twice, how would you vote twice . Havent given a lot of thought but i am about to give you an answer, if you vote under one name and one precinct or under a different name knowing someone is not going to show up, the problem is of this was a particularly longstanding plan about in person voting, you cant Committee Nothing person voting fraud to swing the outcome of the election. How would you vote twice if you wanted to . If you look at the case, probably the most prevalent one, this is more often by state and delivered if people vote in two states, they used to live in one state, continue to get absentee ballot in that state and moved to another state and tends to occur more in primaries, they are not on the same day and there are active programs to where who voted in different states to be able to do that. It was said by many people in the last election the russians tried to interfere or did interfere in the election. What did they do that interferes, by putting things on facebook or affecting the way people vote . Any views on that. A couple ways it might happen. Certainly disinformation through social media is one possibility. One message tends to stir up dissent and strife in the country is one. Another, the government is well aware of trying to hack into Voter Registration databases and manipulate them so that you can create chaos in the polling places were somehow messed with, there were always theories that tabulation machines that is more difficult. Maybe not for a great reason but there 10,000 jurisdictions to deal with counting and casting their ballots. A lot of those machines are very old. Really hard to hack into. How many states use the same type of voting mechanisms . If i was voting in the year 2000 what it using the same paper ballots or electronic ballots that everybody is using. With voting machinery. Congress had a major effort through the electoral process or performances, gave huge amounts of money to punch card machines during bush versus gore, that changed after 2000 but this is a remarkable amount in the electoral system, the pace of Technology Turnover is too close, they dont have the money so in many respects we dont have too many jurisdictions with these shortages that make it difficult to turn over machinery to make it more efficient. Let me ask you about the way people count these ballots. If you vote absentee ballot, mail in ballot, absentee ballot our state allowed to count them before election day . Generally . Or not . Generally they dont count them. They process them, they do the verification, then take the ballot itself in a secrecy envelope and prepare it to be put into the machines on election day or in some cases remove them from the secrecy envelope and queue them up. I dont know of any instances before election day. There is some room for canvassing and preparing, it does very by state law. One concern because of the heavy surge of mail in voting, states begin to process the votes for the quickest possible count on election day. Some states are not required to count absentee or male in ballot until as late as november 17th i think so is that true . Some states have another week or two after the election to count the absentee ballots. Is that a problem . Postmarked on election day. Created a lack to get away from going to bed at midnight on election day. The battleground states, pennsylvania and wisconsin waited until election day to begin the process. Michigan was the day before. Any of those states around comes, there will be a period when we wont know. The best state that has the best process for counting, the best process for voting, what state would that be, which state has done the best job modernizing the process. I assume you dont want to tell it from estate is the worst but which is the best . I dont think it would be highly diplomatic, there are i would say one thing generically. They fall, to keep up better with the class category. Ben and i discovered, i want to emphasize this is important because it doesnt always work. People would be surprised how hard Election Officials democratic and republican work given the possibly of resources and you will see a performance. Im not setting aside the effect of disruptive litigation and allegations of fraud but you will see better performance on election day including the vote count and reliability of the vote count. These Election Officials for the better part of the year, clearly elevating when the pandemic hit, put a major amount of effort, how to make this work. And made an enormous amount of progress. Between 6070 million americans and the number of problems that develop that have been reported have been very few. Who count the ballots . A democrat and republican have to be counting the ballots together or is it somebody supposedly impartial . Who does the counting . And most jurisdictions come when it does come down, human beings, it is democrat and republicans have people there to do it and more often than not the Human Element in this election is going to be in taking the absentee ballot and putting it through the verification process, there are democrat and republicans. When i started voting many years ago i thought you had to vote on election day. When did the idea of early voting come in, went to the idea of early voting arise . It has been a gradual progression from the 80s. One of the things we talked about, the last decade, was the advantages of being able to have early voting because if you have long lines, you want to be able to ease that pressure, the convenience of every qualified voter seems to be a paragon of virtue to strive for. Suppose you voted early and something bad happens when a candidate you voted for and you didnt select a candidate anymore and you call up and say i want to get my ballot back . It could not work. If you decide to destroy it you want to replace the ballot and you have a Second Chance but if it has been tallied there is no way. Suppose somebody votes and he or she goes to the polls and votes and publicly says on social media i voted for joe blow or somebody in the person dies the next minute. Does that ballot still count . Yes because it has been cast and submitted. You dont have to be alive were to be counted. You have to be alive when you vote. Are both campaigns to your knowledge having lawyers wind up in every precinct or every state . How do you do that . How many lawyers are available to do this . That is yours. The United States call it blessed or cursed with an abundance of voices. Recruiting senior lawyers to run litigation as necessary and lawyers that serve other functions like poll watching, there is a huge number. The core of lawyers in the midst of Data Analysis that become necessary to address litigation is in the hundreds. Talking about 50,000 poll watchers, a number of those will be lawyers. The question is in finding out lawyers. The question is finding enough caffeine to keep the lawyers going. Speaking of, what about people like my age who are administering the process . Is it hard to get younger people, people younger than me to be the poll watcher . Peo