About the potential challenge to the election coming up. And go through the various permutations and possibilities of things that could happen if there is uncertainty about the outcome. They are bob bauer, a distinguished scholar and resident at in my you scroll while. He is now on leave as the Senior Advisor to the biden president ial campaign. Veteranberg, a republican lawless trinity, now a cnn commentator. I would like to recognize one of our special guests today, ambassadors of singapore and sweden and chile and the european union. I would like to recognize our sponsors, our title sponsors, bank of america. Thank you. Our emerging leaders sponsors. Recognizeuld like to see miss usa and the ceo. Siemens usa, thank you for your emerging Leadership Events a few upcoming that some of you probably know about already. Let me remind you, on november 18, at 10 00 a. M. , we will have an event with determent and ceo of johnson and johnson, as you all probably know, johnson and one of the companies is working on a vaccine. I think that he will have interesting things to say about that. He is a very impressive person. I believe that people will really enjoy that carbonation. I will also have a conversation with another impressive person on december 9 at 12 00 p. M. I will speak with a member of the Economic Club board for some time. We are very much looking forward to talking with her about her role as the ceo. We will have additional schedule items that we are working on. We have had 16 member lead forums recently. We have another 18 being scheduled. If any of your interested in that, let us know. To remind everybody, after this interview is over, we will have our website, economicclub. Org with the full material and presentation. Today, i would like to remind everybody that we are all working on a number of other events. If you all have ideas for people he would like to be presented, please let us know, and we will try to work out things with those individuals if at all possible. Let me go into introducing our two special guests today. First, i would do alphabetically. Bob bauer. In bauer has been a lawyer the political advocacy area for quite some time. He is one of the deans of this area. Bob has been practicing law for many years. Tohas also been an advisor president obama and served as counsel to the president during president obamas second term in office. He is also a graduate of Harvard University and the university of Virginia School of law. And beneen given he ginsberg have chaired an election to look at how we can improve the election process. Lawyersberg has been a for many years in washington, and a partner at two firms. One of them is the firm that he just retired from, jones day. Box, and he patton was a partner there for a long time. Then is somebody that is a graduate of university of pennsylvania undergrad, where he was the editor and chief of the newspaper. He was a journalist for a number of years, and then he decided to get into law and went to georgetown law school. He has written frequently on this area of political advocacy. He was one of the lawyers that was deeply involved in the bush fee goal or litigation years ago and one of the lawyers that chapel. Well talk more about that. Lets dig in right away. I was to say to both of you, if either of you think that this election will be resolved and everybodys minds by midnight on Election Night next week . Bob, i am looking at you. At 12 00to sleep knowing who the next president is . Are you a mute . With all of the press that we have had about the potential for long delays, i think that you can be reassured that at some time late on Election Night, there is a high likelihood that we will know he was winning the election, and by the next day the certainty will grow. I know there is talk about it going on for months and months, before anybody has an inkling as to who will be in the oval office and january of 20 31. I do not think that that will be the case. David then, it you disagree with that . Ib benjamin i think we will need a few states in the mountain and pacific time zones to come in with their results. I think that there will be a clear idea of the winter by friday morning at the latest. The yearst time in gore, the famous bush v decision and case, a usury had been that state courts would resolve election issues. In that situation, the federal courts got involved. Would you expect if there were any disputes the bush versus gore precedent would be such that bush versus gore and federal courts would really move would state courts go back to being the leading decisionmaker in this . In these elections that are contested . Ben . First of all, i think it is rare that you get to a situation like bush versus gore, where most of the activity you are likely to see post election will be conducted under state law and state proceedings. After all the way the system , works, it begins in precincts and builds up counties and goes to the state level. Each state has its own set of laws, and there is no National Election laws governing the time, place and manner of so i think it goes to states, their courts, except in the most extreme conditions. David do you agree thought . Bob i would add that in the bush versus gore decision was a controversial one. It raised significant issues institutionally for the court. The court will be reluctant particularly in the case one of the candidates has a substantial popular vote margin for interceding in the election and bite the sort of controversy that was from the lesson. If jim baker had been the lawyer for al gore, would al gore lawyer for our gore what al gore have become the president of the United States in the year 2000 . David i have Great Respect did have Great Respect and continue to for jim baker and his career. Lets not forget this part. The Gore Campaign has litigated the county rules and the Supreme Court decision on those county rules, to have a recount that would likely have been successful in the state of florida. This case of bush versus gore ultimately went against gore by one vote on the Supreme Court. I do not really view that as a triumph of mr. Baker. I believe that the bush forces benefited from and unforeseen intervention by the United States. David ben, you are down in florida event. You had a lot of Young Lawyers helping you. Ted cruz was one of them, john roberts, Justice Cavanaugh was there. Amy Coney Barrett was there. Of all of those lawyers, who was the smartest . Benjamin every time, i will answer that jim baker. David i think that is a politically correct benjamin they would all agree. David lets suppose both of you were wrong, suppose it doesnt get resolved in the courts but in the congress. You go through how this gets resolved in the congress . Has thethe congress deciding who is the next president . This will arise if there cannot be a clear winner in the Electoral College. Then we go into a law called the electoral count act of 1887. I believe that there will be at least two substantive sides the come out of that. It is fairly indecipherable and open to many interpretations. So i think that you will see novel litigation should we go to that stage. An active, it is never been stressed. What im about to say, i think we had to caviar with the certainty that would come about. The house and the senate would be called upon to play various roles with the judge. Probably competing slates of electors that would emerge from the states. That gets into a very arcane theess with the house, first initial matter, having to choose which of the competing slate that they agree with. The senate plays a role. Part of the answer is to how complicated it is is whether there is split control between the house and the senate. It will be a lot quicker resolution should one Party Control both chambers. To be aly there has winner of the Electoral College for a new president to take office. Either of you, explain this to me to make sure i understand it. When the electors meet in each state, and sometime in december. At the state legislature has to approve those electors, it is works . The electors meet, and theres a possibility that the legislator in the state where the elector is determined by proper vote suddenly takes the position that the popular vote is contaminated by fraud, the legislator its health not the voters would determine who the elector should be. You can imagine a case where candidate a window proper vote, the legislator says that is not the right place. It is contaminated by fraud or irregularity and the Legislature Sends its own plate to the United States congress. That is what the legislator was repaired to do in florida. Intervention in bush versus gore and that is how you end up with the electorate presented to congress and Congress Congressional battles begins. There is a host of bizarre developments that go from there theoretically. I do not think that this will happen. But by the time january 20th comes around no president has been determined through the Electoral College, the Vice President could wind up becoming the president of United States. Or neither of them, and that is the speaker of the house. I do not think that is going to happen. But it is very complicated. Benjamin and one scenario worth mentioning is a states counts. , that therelouded is no winning slate to come out of the state. In other words, the state is unable to certify its election officialo there is no certified slate that goes up to washington. That is where the scenario with state legislators or governors date did the legislators have to stand after sends to the senate the names of the electors . What date is that . December 14th. Safe harbor. David they sinned in december. They send in december. If the Vice President decides, and nobody gets to 70, does it go to the house then . 270 does it go to the new house for the new house . Benjamin the new house is sworn in on january 3rd and the electoral plates are opened on january 6th. It goes to the new house, the house votes by state delegation. David if california is a democratic delegation, they have one vote. And montana republican would have one vote as well. Currently, there are 26 republican state delegations, 24 democratic ones. If that did not change, the republicans, presumably a republican candidate would win. Is that right . Benjamin that is correct. It was very interesting to see nancy pelosi, Democratic CongressionalCampaign Committee target certain states where the margins and delegations are narrow. So the speaker has started to talk about trying in the election to win over slates. David if the house of representatives cannot agree on somebody by genera 20, automatically, the speaker of the house becomes president. Is that correct . I believe the senate determines if a president isnt i believe the senate determines the Vice President. In the Vice President assumes the presidency until this is resolved. So the senate has to find somebody to be Vice President. If they cannot agree, then it goes to the Vice President . Then it goes to the House Speaker . David i have to think through all of this. It is complicated. Let me ask a couple of other things. Both of you headed at president ial commission to look at how the election is done. Is it your view that there is a lot of voter fraud out there . Or maybe there really isnt . Benjamin let me take that one first. Ive spent nearly four decades actively involved in republican election day operations. That means that i have been increasing, been a part of countywide teams that go to look arise inms that polling places, and i have been a part of nationwide boiler rooms, to get all of the reports from individual jurisdictions. Both parties have the right, poll watchers and every point place to say that they both wish to staff and find fraud and resolve problems. An integral part of our system. That in allact is of the time that people have been in polling places and looking for fraud, there simply is not evidence to sustain a charge of systemic voter fraud. David not systemic, but occasionally echo occasional . Bob it is caught and corrected benjamin but it is occasional. Bob it is surpassingly rare. Surpassingly rare. David lets say its rare, but lets suppose that you wanted to vote twice. How would you be able to vote twice . Wanted toose that you show that the system was not perfect. You would not to want to break the law, lets suppose you are asked to figure out how to vote twice. How would you vote twice . I have not given it a great deal of thought on how to commit voter fraud. Undersuppose is, you vote one name and one precinct and you vote under a different name knowing that you have the name of someone who is not going to show up in another precinct. The problem with these schemes, and this was always true particularly with the longstanding claims about in person fraud, is that you cannot commit a death of a person fraud to really swing the outcome of the election. It is not really clear why some of the to that much trouble and expose himself to that kind of activity. David how would you vote twice if you wanted to . Benjamin if you look at the cases where people have been caught, probably the most prevalent one, and this is more often by mistake rather than deliver, this is people voting in two states. They used to live in one state, and they continue to get an absentee bout from that state. And then they moved to another state and vote in their new jurisdiction as well. It tends to occur more in primaries because primaries and two states are not on the same day. There are now active programs to basically compare who voted in different states to be able to find that. David thank you. Can either of you explain this . It was said in the last election that the russians try to interfere and date interfere and the election. How the interfere . What do they do the interfere . Is it putting things on facebook or affecting the way the people vote. How did they interfere, as far as you know . There are a couple of ways it might happen, disinformation social media sites is one possibility. That tend to stir up dissent and strife in the is one. Another that the government is to hack e of is trying into Voter Registration databases and manipulate them so that you could create chaos in the polling place if registration lists were somehow messed with. There are always theories that the voting machines, the themselves achines are hacked. Thats more difficult, maybe not or a great reason, but just because there are 10,500 jurisdictions in the country and deal with the counting casting of ballots and a lot of bob and i saw, as at the commission are very, very old. T would be really hard to hack into the results to be able expect in the election. Do d bob, how many states you think use the same type of voting mechanisms that they did 2000, the year of bush v gore. In other words, if he was voting state year 2000 in any and i voted this year, would i ballots the same paper or electronic ballots or has change . Bob not everybody has changed. The key change was in 2000, a lot of attention to the vote ri machinery. Last mainly he effort to really revamp the electrical process or reform it the better gave the states amounts of money, the hanging chad problem during bush that changed since 2000. Here is a remarkable amount of stasis, the turnover is way too slow because injure addictions the money. In many respects, we have too many jurisdictions that are resource with shortages that make it difficult for them to turn over the changesy and make other that would make the electoral more efficient. David lets talk to you about the way people count these ballots. You vote absentee ballot, lets say mailin ballot, are the for a moment, states allowed to count them before election day generally or until ey have to wait election day to count . They dont nerally count them. They process them. On the the verification outer envelope and take the ballot itself which is in a envelope and prepare it to be put into the purchases on in tion day or, in fact, some cases, remove them from the actually velope and cue them up in the machines. Bob, i dont know of any a state thats supposed to count its ballots before election day. There is some room for precanvasing and preparing count. E it does vary by state law. Certainly one of the concerns year, particularly because of the heavy surge of voting was at least begin to process in the way that ben described the votes for the count on ossible election day. David so some states i think count or notsed to required to count absentee or ballots until as late as november 17, i think. Is that true . I know some states have another two after the election to really count the absentee is that a problem . Benjamin well, they have that ballots that are postmarked on election day and in gettingeate a lag the results which would get in the way of your goal of being bed at midnight on election day knowing the results. Of the battleground states, its really pennsylvania and that wait until election day to begin the process at all. Is just the day before. Of those three states are outcome determinative, then there will be a period of time know the winner. David if i said i wanted to best state as the that has the best process for counting, the best process for that , what state would be . Which state do you think has done the best job in modernizing and i assume you dont want to tell us which us e is the worst, but tell whats the best. I sort of i feel like shouldnt pick out a favorite child here, i dont think it diplomatic. Generically, there are some that should keep up with the class category. Ben and i have discovered, i ant to emphasize, it doesnt always emerge in the press conference. How e would be surprised hard they work given the resources to put on an election. A hink youre going to se