Been movement and supported and we will be taking will call the just like we did and our teams meeting. This did not change. [indiscernible] orthere any discussion motion regarding the approval of the minutes . Discussion on the approval of the minutes for october 15 . Will you please take a roll call vote . Taken]all vote four ayeir, you have votes. The second item on the agenda is the certification of the november 3, 2020 general election. Thank you, chair brad chop. Chair bradshaw. [indiscernible] all fourike to thank of you for your dedicated service to our stay. The staff recommendation is that you certify. You have before you the results of michigans election. More than 5. 5 million ballot, ars cast a record in our state. Two constitutional amendments. [indiscernible] dissipationng amidst a Global Pandemic is inspiring and voters should be commended for having their voices heard in november. State. Lf of our this is an effort that is unprecedented in scope and difficulty. Long before most of us gave any thought to this election, the staff were hard at work. It is been quite a year. On the night of our president ial primary, the first case of covid19 was recorded. [indiscernible] that meant trying to campus the when publicon Health Guidance was still emerging. In august, clerks managed to administer another election successfully. Under very difficult conditions. Election workers have been on a marathon to ensure that our elections continue to run. Testing, and distributing ballots. Serving voters continuously. And running a busy election day all in the middle of a pandemic. Election day was a long one in many communities as was expected. Clerks knew the sheer volume of absentee ballots would require them to go late into the night and into the following day. The final 12 they pushed running on fumes culminated in a successful certification of the county results county Election Results that you have before you. World, what that meant was election workers sacrificing continuously and tirelessly. There were scarcely hours in the day. Toe bureau we spoke with the courts and stephon. Budget slashed. Colleagues sidelined, buildings closed. Family members lost with little time to mourn. Other clerks on the ballots themselves have endure alex other clerks on the bantamweights themselves have endured election defeats and their ontinued doing duties. Clerks typically only see members of the public who are not happy. They display their constant dedication, sometimes in the fails of unfair criticism, abuse and threats. I cannot thank them enough for the sacrifice, coverage and commitment to our state they have shown throughout the year. They achieved the greatest accomplishment in recent memory. Overall we had an extremely well run and secure election. The bureau did not identify anything no, maam louis in the results suggesting large skate irregularities. They voted for candidates of both parties as they always do. They elected seven democrats and seven represents. They elected bipartisan placement candidates for statewide education and universities boards. There were several errors in the reporting of unofficial results. This happens in every election and we will continue to work to reduce the extent it occurs. None of those affected the way the ballots were counted. Errors in unofficial results were quickly caught soon after they occurred. Before certifying official results. I would note we saw there a reduction in the clerical errors that led to numbers out. Balance we continued improvement in this effort, by any measure, the effort was better. The percentage of balance or precincts in detroit was 72 , up from 42 in november of 2016 and 54 in august of this year. The percentage of precincts that can be recounted is significantly higher than 72 because the number of battles here matches a tab lamented total. We likely will have several recounts across the state following certification before audits occur. Those with out of bounds precincts will be a point of focus, and i expect we will find as we typically do issues to be explaininged. They do not mean that votes were not properly counted. By performing a statewide audit, we will confirm that our tabulators counted accurately. Audit must occur after certification because we dont want legal authorities to inspect the materials until that time. We have not identified any law o allow for a precertification audit. In closing, the attorney general foig will look for additional certification. Thank you. Thank you. I would echo the comments that we have look the at the issue of whether the board has the authority to request an audit itself before going on the mertens of certification or whether some other people can call upon the board and request the board to do such an audit. If we are talking about an audit as rides in the 16. 31a, on, which is both of those both the constitution and the statute clearly contemplate that we are conducting audits post election. In other words, the constitution itself gives people the right to request an audit of a statewide election result. So we dont have statewide results until this board certifies. Under the constitution it would have to be interpreted as well contemplate post election audits. 168. 31 also makes it clear that it contemplates post election audits. It claire files that an audit does not act as a recount. That language itself suggest that is we are looking at an audit post election. I would echo the directors comment for the ability to conduct an audit as that phrase is used in the constitution or the statute itself. I would like to make a motion. Bailingsed on the election returns for the november 23, general election, we the board of canvassers certify that the attached reports are true statements of the votes cast at the election, that the office is certified by this board and for the electric tors of. And Vice President of the United States. We further certify that the persons named on the attached listing were duly elected for the indicated offices and that state propose proposals 201 and 202 passed. Is there support . At this point i would ask that we hear more public testimony and hear more from the people who have requested to speem here today. Im not saying i am for or against this motion right now, but at this point we have a list of people that want to speak today. We have i dont know how many members of the public who have signed up to speak. We can take some time to listen to them first and then consider the motion. I would say we put the motion on the floor, and then we can discuss it. I would rather have it out front as opposed to the 780 or 800 Public Comments that are listed. I would encourage people when you make your comments to speak to the motion, however. So i continue to move this. I would continue to ask that we listen to public testimony at this point. The boards duty today is very clear. We have a duty to certify this election bailingsed on the returns. That is very clear. We are limited to these returns. I am not going to argue that we are not. But i still think the people have signed up to speak today should have the chance to speak before we act on this motion. I will make that statement. I think we are pretty limited to this. I think we have a duty to do this, but i also think we he it to the people to allow them to speak. And i dont in any way want to keep anybody from speaking, but i would like this motion on the floor with a second so we can stay folk us the on that. Stay folk used on that. We have a motion on the floor. Is there a second . Not at this time. I will second the motion is. There discussion on the motion . I know there are lot of people online. Board members, i do have a number of people who witch to speak, and i will call the first one, if i may, and that would be chris thomas, former director of elections. Just a quick question. Uld the motion on the table, can we hold for the time being or can we act on it . This is considered part of the discussion on the motion. All right. Tops . E have chris it looks like we do. Chris thomas. Good afternoon. Chris, i believe we can hear you. There is a bit after pause. I want to make sure. If you can, state and spell your first name for the record, please. Christopher thomas. Hr e. U. Stoprerer, thomas. It is a pleasure to be here with you this afternoon. I am here to answer questions. I was specifically told that mr. Shinkle may have some. As you are aware, i have been working with the detroit city clerk as a Senior Advisor during the general election. My time with her is from mid september to mid december. I have been involved with the planning for the general the ion dealing with t. F. C. Operation and several other issues with satellite sides, drop boxes and whatnot. I have been impressed with the city of detroits turn they have made since 2016 and since the august primary of this year. As you know, there is no jurisdiction anywhere near the size or complexity of detroit in our 1,500 cities and townships. Etroit had 174,000 mailin ballots, representing 6 of the vote. That is more than representing 68 of the photo. That was more than double the amount of the primary which was at 81,000. The desire to vote by mail in a time of pandemic was palpable in the city of detroit. Winfrey last s. Spring when they were putting together plans on how they would handle an election by mail. They moved in the area of highspeed tabulators, which ly were a lifesaber saver to report in a timely manner the unofficial results. At some point in our meeting, aniel baxter should be on here. He was a former director in detroit and ran the t. C. F. Operation. They made Great Strides in terms of accountability with the balloting, the checkin and the tabulation compared to the primary. Director brader has indicated in his staff report some very positive indications of detroits increase in terms of accuracy and accountability. I am going to say that this board should understand that you played a role in that. You have raised your vials about not only detroit, but other jurisdictions. But most particularly with detroit in terms of their processing of absentee ballots back in 2016 and again in this primary. There have been resources flat city applied, and they have had a benefit. Is there work still to be done . Yes. And there are commitments to continue that work. New technology has been brought to bear on this process, and in the future is going to have even more beneficial effects. He fact of the matter is detroit, like many jurisdictions in this state, had a tsunami of mail ballots descend upon it and dealt with them as best we could. I think it is incredible for the clerks of this state and also of detroit that they could make a pivot from a 70 inperson voting or 75 inperson voting environment to close to a 70 by mail voting environment. In the middle of a pandemic. When i first started talking to ms. Winfrey about the 2020 election last spring, it was in the midst of a time when she and many people in the city of detroit knew folks who had died from the pandemic. I am over on the west side of the state in st. Joseph. We are experiencing much of what they experience inside detroit last march and april. We are not hardhit in the spring. It seemed somewhat foreign to me. But it was absolutely clear that people had fear of that pandemic and really were attempting to avoid large public gatherings. So hence the planning that went into providing a vote by mail. With 21 satellite sites set up and 30 drop boxes around the ity, detroits voters were given that opportunity, and they took advantage of it. I am pleased with what has ccurred. So when you look at what was done in the polling place and again you need to hear from Daniel Baxter here today but the first city in the state to use the electronic poll book in absentee voter counting bowie his boost. We used reliable, which is technology on the checkin balance and trying to keep accountability going. We used county boards, not recant sinths. In the primary we used precincts because a precincts delegate made each ballot unique. E used county boards a count board is an accumulation of several pre60s with the same ballot form all the candidates, offices and proposals are the same. An accounting board may have six precincts in it, one or five. 501 precincts are fit othered into 134 boards. So that is how the operation was run. At this point i would point you report. Tor breders he has indicated, i think, some the ositive increases in accountability that detroit has brought to this process, and im going to be happy to answer any questions you may have. There any questions from the Board Members or mr. Thomas . My button is green. Chris, it is good to hear you. Chris and i talked just yesterday. It steamed like a week ago. I went over a bunch of stuff with chris. I warned him i was going to ask a particular question. For anyone to say this election in november went smoothly, i suppose you can compare it to august, which was a total mess. There may be improvements, but smoothly is not accurate at all. The statute we operate under, there is a sentence in there about certifying the statewide election, that we have the power to adjourn from time to time to receive the correction of returns or for other necessary purposes, and not complete the canvass no later than the 40th day after the election. Today is the 20th. Chris, way told you i was going to ask you is under what circumstances could there be out there that you would think you can delay for other purposes . Well, first of all, part of the question you said you were going to ask is whether you could ever vote no on the certification. Delaying is voting no for today. No, not necessarily. I think that first of all the answer is of course you cant vote no. In this no circumstance. Each of you play a role. You are at the pinnacle of michigans democracy. You are the end game of the statewide elections for 2020. Our system is a steer sum operation. You have winners, you have losers. We dont hatch any ties. Everyone doesnt get a trophy. That is not the way it works. However, at the end of the season after 5. 5 Million People have taken to the field and exercised their right to vote, tens of thousands of our citizens have turned out to rk in difficult andrus times and dangerous times. And over 1,600 townships and their staff have prepared for this election, and the 83 boards that canvass this election, you, the board of canvassers. Representing the two major parts, queeb to make the results that are already widely known official. So the stability, which is so needed, shows our citizens that a system they may take for granted works. Michigan election law does not need to tell you that yes is the only option, because without a yes, you dont have anything. There is no election new york city winners, no losers, no beginning of michigans next chapter. Our law sellings you may aof aadjourn to await returns you may adjourn and await returns and corrections to the returns. But it doesnt say you can vote no and go home. For those who question the outcome, the remedy stage begins after you say yes. Recounts, audits, investigations are all out there waiting for you to act. The legislature has given you a roll in recounts, but clearly it has not given you authority to conduct precertification audits. So can you adjourn . Yes, you can adjourn if you dont have if you dont have if you have the completed returns, i dont think you can adjourn. What else is there for a county to do . They have lost their jurisdiction. They can no longer canvass. You have got their statement as to what the certified votes are in their respective counties. So what would you be waiting for . You are asking me questions, and i ask you the question. Chris, it does say at the sentence, shall complete our canvass and announce their determination no later than the 40th day. You are saying though words shouldnt be in there . We announce other certain cation of the election no later than the 40th day . Would that be correct . No. I will think you are mandated to certify when you have the complete results. There is no reason to sit on it for 40 days. Because i would ask you if i cant ask you questions, i would receipt orangally ask what would you do for 40 details . You dont have authority to do an audit. So what would you do . Why would you sit on something for 40 days when you have there is no other necessary purpose. There is no other necessary purpose that we could have. Is that kind of what you are saying . I am not sure how you would suggest what that would be. Maybe somebody gets ill. Maybe two people get ill and you lose a quorum. Those words are there, but was is the necessary purpose . I warned you yesterday i was going to bring this up, and i think we got chris answer. Ok, guys. , how are you . On i am very good. Nice to see you. I think there are some important things you have said here, and i think it is really important for us to clarify the boards role. One thing that is out there is the fact that there is a lot of misunderstands about this board and the power and authority hat we have. You conduct the president elections last june, so you are a good person to do. That i am looking at section 841 of the code. It says the pardon of elections shall canvass the returns and determine the results of the elections. I am going to focus in on the worth shall. It means must, right . It means shall. The state Supreme Court has gotten into shall, and made shall, shall, yes. Would you agree with me this board has a legal duty, correct . I would definitely agree with you. The law basically says we have a legal today to canvass returns. Those returns are basically the certified copies from the counties, correct . That is correct. And that means are you aware, and i know you have an extensive background. Are you aware of any Legal Authority out there allows to review more than those returns as part of this certification process . I am not. I have been with you all when you certified numerous lections, and i have never experienced a time when one has come up, or two, there has been any contemplation of going beyond the face of the sorority occasions presented to the board of the certifications presented to the board. We are not a court here. We dont have judicial power. We dont have the authority to conduct a trial here on whether or not Election Fraud occurred, am i correct . You are correct. And the court of appeal has told this board in no Uncertain Times in the petition arena that they are a ministerial body required to follow the dictates of law. Thibunal to decide legal matters or questions. I would think they would say the same thing here, that you are not a body to investigate fraud. You dont have the tools to do that. The statute doesnt give you the authority to mandate documents compel testimony or compel testimony. So you cant really investigate fraud. I mean the secretary of state cannot even investigate fraud. She can investigate the conduct of elections based on what election efficiency