Transcripts For CSPAN First 20240703 : vimarsana.com

For that she served 15 years in the Michigan Health represents, she is a familiar face of this committee as she has spent her first two terms on the Oversight Committee, she replaces congresswoman of vermont and i want to welcome back congresswoman i also want to become others. And q for the warm welcome extended to our colleagues. She is the favorite daughter of this committee and we are thrilled and delighted to have her back to join us. The gentleman yelled back. Jason smith, here for the hearing for the purposes of asking questions. People about his knowledge and participation in his familys corrupt business games. At least 10 times, joe biden why do the American People they never spoke to his family about their business dealings. He lied that there was an absolute wall between his official government duties and his personal life. Let us be clear. There was no wall. The door was wide open to those who purchased what a business associate described as the biden brand. Evidence revealed that joe biden spoke and developed relationships about his familys foreign business targets. These targets include foreign oligarchs who sent millions of dollars to his families and a Chinese National who wired a quarter of the 1 million to his son. Joe biden lied to the American People about his family making money in china. He continued to lie about it even when the House Oversight committee uncovered bank wires revealing how the bidens received millions from Chinese Companies with significant ties to chinese intelligence and the Chinese Communist party. Just this week we uncovered two additional wires that originated in beijing from Chinese Nationals. This happened when joe biden was running for president of the United States and joe bidens home is listed as a beneficiary address. The Oversight Committee has covered how the Biden Associate credit over 20 Shell Companies, most of which were created when President Biden was Vice President and brought in millions of dollars. We also identified nine biden family members who have participated in or benefited from these shady business schemes. What was biden selling to make all of this money . Joe biden himself. Joe biden is a brand and he showed up two dozen times with Business Associates sending signals of access and power to those prepared to pay for it. The American People committed accountability, demanded accountability and how these schemes have compromised our national security. They demand a safeguard to be put in place to prevent Public Officials from selling access to their Public Office for private gain. Under the leadership of Kevin Mccarthy, House Republicans opened up the impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. By opening an impeachment inquiry, it is empowering congress elected by the people to continue dividing the answers and accountability. Demanding answers and accountability. This committee under this majority will not pursue such witchhunts based on manufactured allegations, innuendo, and no real evidence. Today, the House Oversight committee will examine over two dozen pieces of evidence, including corruption and abuse of Public Office, this includes emails, bank records, and testimony of bidens Business Associates. Legal and Financial Experts mention crimes have been committed as joe biden was sold around the world. The ways will follow the money and the evidence to provide accountability so that americans know that their Public Offices are not for sale. I yelled to jason smith, for his Opening Statement yield to jason smith, for his Opening Statement. President biden was not just aware of his sons business dealings, but he was connected to them. In a newly released message to a Chinese Business executive hunter biden mentioned preserving the quote keys to my familys only asset. That asset was joe biden. New evidence released in response to questions raised by members of the committee on both sides when gary and joseph, two irs whistleblowers testified july painted a disturbing picture of a revolving door between joe bidens office and his sons Business Partners. Siegler, then vice President Bidens official visit to ukraine occurred only days after a series of white house meetings with hunter biden and his Business Associates regarding ukraine. Shortly after joe biden returned stateside, a Company Announced Hunter Bidens appointment to the board. New evidence provided shows hunter biden using his fathers position to gain favor with a millionaire including having joe biden host them at the white house in february of 2014. The Vice President s resident alongsideat the Vice President s residence in 2015. And then using air force two, the Business Associates to mexico city. Whether it was at, phone calls, white house meetings, or official foreign trusts, hunter biden cashed in. Providing access to joe biden, the family brand. The biden family and their associates received millions in payments from foreign sources including from russia, china, ukraine, romania, and one email biden bragged he cut a deal for 10 million from one company for quote introductions alone. The doj wanted to keep the spotlight as far from joe biden as possible, one of the items we released yesterday was an irs interview with james biden, the president s brother in september of 2022. The agency was barred in the interview from asking him about joe biden and about whether joe biden was involved in Hunter Bidens bill with a Chinese Energy company. When hunter biden had a liability of over 2 Million Dollars, mysteriously paid for by a Democrat Party donor in kem and maurice who he barely knew, something iris investigator saw as a possible campaign violation. Leslie wolf said she did not want any of the agents to look into the allegations. On the board or notes, leslie was not personally interested in pursuing it. This is the saorne wolf who had responded to irs inator seeking approval foarcharranth a quote saying there shoulde nothing about political figure one in here, that being a reference by definition of joe biden. The biden family sold access to joe bidens power and the Biden Justice department protected the biden brand. We must continue to follow the facts. I yield to jordan. This is a tale as old as time. Politicians take action that makes money for his family and then he tries to conceal it. Ever forget four fundamental facts, hunter biden gets put on the board, he gets paid a lot of money, hunter biden is not qualified to sit on the board. Not my word, his word. Because of the name. The executives at the area asked hunter biden to play them and help them with the pressure they are under in ukraine. Four, joe biden got ukraine on december 9, 2015 and gives a speech attacking the prosecutor that starts the process of getting that guy fired. Those facts are consistent with what the confidential human source told the fbi and the fbi recorded in the 1023 form, the same form the Justice Department did not want to let this committee see. All of those facts, all of that was further confirmed yesterday with the information in the ways and Means Committee released from zigler. There is a communication from hunter biden who is an executive, i feel comfortable with blue star strategy and the ability of sally and karen to deliver. Hunter biden put others in touch with blue star strategy, what were they going to deliver . That was the communication release, u. S. Officials in ukraine and in the United States need to express support for barisma and others to the highest level decisionmakers, president of ukraine, the president s chief of staff and the prosecutor general, that is what they were going to deliver and were they successful . The interior minister confirmed that he has no longer wanted, we won communication between blue star and Hunter Bidens Business Partner. Also mark, congratulations to you, those are the communications, that is what they got done. When this happened in october of 2016, when the pressure is taken off the case against owen, this is the second prosecutor, joe biden fired the first one, the second prosecutor comes in and drops the charges. That is what they wanted done. The final step, the final step is the Biden Justice department trying to sweep it all under the rug. They slow walk to investigation and they let the statute of limitations lapse, when all of the income is coming in, they tried to put together this sweetheart deal and get it passed the judge. We learned yesterday in the search warrant application, examining Hunter Bidens electronic communication, they were not allowed to ask about political figure one. Political figure number one is the big guy, it is joe biden. They would have gotten away with it all, they would have gotten away with it all except for two great whistleblowers who sat in those seats two months ago and told their story and their story has stood up, too great whistleblowers and injected yellow water two great whistleblowers and a judge in delaware. That is why this inquiry is so important, the oldest story in the world and those are the facts. I yield back. The chair recognizes raskins of maryland. I have a parliamentary inquiry given the committee has not been authorized by the full house to conduct an impeachment inquiry. Am i correct in assuming that we are obligated to follow the rules of the house including section 370 of the rules and manuals which prescribe engaging in personalities with the president . Is would . Eastwood . Considering this is an investigation of joe biden, i assume this will come up. Right. The house is not authorized, we are operating with general rules and i think things the president lied about is engaging in personality. In fact, section 376 accusations of the president has committed a crime or even the president has done something illegal or are parliamentary are on unparliamentary. It has been authorized. What is the inquiry . The Ranking Member, changing of the rules requires a vote from the house of representatives . The rules of the committee. The court of order, articles of impeachment are directed not before the committee. Given the unique nature and subject matter of the topic, these words will not be ruled out of order. Thank you for clarifying. We have an honest disagreement about that. We are 62 hours away from shutting down the government of the United States of america and republicans are launching an impeachment trial based on a long debunked and discredited by. No foreign enemy has been able to shut down the government of the United States but now maga republicans are going to do just that. I do not want to cut off Public Services to people and deny paychecks to more than one million Service Members without first wanting an impeachment drive, even when they do not have a shred of evidence against President Biden for an Impeachable Offense. Here is what some republicans have had to say over the last week about the actions of the republicans as they have watched as they do function caucuses at work as our gop colleague from nebraska don bacon said. Clown show, foolishness, terribly misguided, stupidity, failure to lead, lunatics, disgraceful, new low, pathetic, enabling chairman xi. Those folks do not have a plan. Shows us how broken they are, and individuals that want to burn the whole place down. If i said any of these things they would take my words down, the republicans talking about republicans. Let us be clear, this is not partisan warfare, it is chaotic inviting between republicans infighting, maga between extreme maga. The impeachment of the most fanatical elements the appeasement of the most fanatical elements are hurting americans. You think that the caucus is interested in anything logical, they are out to see the world burn. Donald trump posted a comment saying that the Government Shutdown quote, is the last chance to defund the political prosecution against me and other patriots. To delay justice, donald trump would cut off paychecks to a couple one million Service Members and federal workers and for more than one million workers and pay them later for having not worked. They would hope Food Assistance for millions take Food Assistance from millions of mothers and kids and take away Clinical Research trials. Comp is convinced if we shut the government down, his prosecutions and charges will be defunded and delayed long enough to keep him from having to go before a jury this year, before the 2024 election. Like flying on a mission, Donald Trumps followers have what messages to the world, shut down the government, shut down the prosecutions. Donald trump rings another command to his followers, that brings us here. Impeach the bum or fade into oblivion, they did it to us. The standard for impeachment is not whether they did it to us, but whether the president committed treason or bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. The constitution is relevant to them which is what donald trump wants as a republican representative can box of the Freedom Caucus member told cnn the other day, President Trump gone and social media says we should be impeaching President Biden. Mccarthy says we have an impeachment inquiry, you draw the conclusion, directly or indirectly, this impeachment inquiry was the result of President Trumps pressure. We moved from the trump ordered government shut down to a trump ordered impeachment process and back in realitybased world the majority is completely empty handed with no evidence of any president ial wrongdoing, no smoking gun, no gun, no smoke. We had to slide awkwardly into a n impeachment process without a floor vote that mccarthy insisted that was necessary when donald trump was impeached. They went to the department of justice and got an opinion saying no committee may undertake the momentous move from legislative oversight to impeachment without the llc opinion january 19, 2020. That is why the house voted in the case of donald trump, but that is exactly what has not happened here. They do not have the bows because dozens of republicans recognize what a futile and absurd process this is. Now, the hearing is the basis for impeachment inquiry of president joseph biden. Yet, they present us no basis at all today even after eight months of investigation. Have invited three witnesses to testify. Not one is an eyewitness to a president ial crime. Of any kind. Not one of them is a direct fact witness about any of the events related to ukraine and burisma. Not one of them has dissipated in the eight months of investigation in which our distinguished chairman have publicly boasted that he received 100 of everything he asked for. I quote, every subpoena i signed as chairman of the House Oversight committee over the last five months we have gotten 100 of what we have requested, whether with the fbi, the banks or with treasury. That means we are the witnesses. In fact, the committee has received 12,000 pages of bank records. Here they are, right in front of us, printed doublesided. Not a single page shows a dime going to President Joe Biden. We have received 2000 pages of reports the chairman subpoena. We have accepted interviews from everybody from Hunter Bidens Business Partners to a federal agent assigned to that investigation. Still, we found no evidence of wrongdoing by President Biden. If the rumor is a smoking gun or a dripping water pistol, they would be presenting it today. They have got nothing on joe biden. All they can do is return to the fully demolished live at Rudy Giuliani and donald trump launched five years ago. The burisma and spira theory, a fairytale so preposterous that one of its main authors has now disowned and repudiated it. This is the theory vice President Biden Michigan Health<\/a> represents, she is a familiar face of this committee as she has spent her first two terms on the Oversight Committee<\/a>, she replaces congresswoman of vermont and i want to welcome back congresswoman i also want to become others. And q for the warm welcome extended to our colleagues. She is the favorite daughter of this committee and we are thrilled and delighted to have her back to join us. The gentleman yelled back. Jason smith, here for the hearing for the purposes of asking questions. People about his knowledge and participation in his familys corrupt business games. At least 10 times, joe biden why do the American People<\/a> they never spoke to his family about their business dealings. He lied that there was an absolute wall between his official government duties and his personal life. Let us be clear. There was no wall. The door was wide open to those who purchased what a business associate described as the biden brand. Evidence revealed that joe biden spoke and developed relationships about his familys foreign business targets. These targets include foreign oligarchs who sent millions of dollars to his families and a Chinese National<\/a> who wired a quarter of the 1 million to his son. Joe biden lied to the American People<\/a> about his family making money in china. He continued to lie about it even when the House Oversight<\/a> committee uncovered bank wires revealing how the bidens received millions from Chinese Companies<\/a> with significant ties to chinese intelligence and the Chinese Communist<\/a> party. Just this week we uncovered two additional wires that originated in beijing from Chinese National<\/a>s. This happened when joe biden was running for president of the United States<\/a> and joe bidens home is listed as a beneficiary address. The Oversight Committee<\/a> has covered how the Biden Associate<\/a> credit over 20 Shell Companies<\/a>, most of which were created when President Biden<\/a> was Vice President<\/a> and brought in millions of dollars. We also identified nine biden family members who have participated in or benefited from these shady business schemes. What was biden selling to make all of this money . Joe biden himself. Joe biden is a brand and he showed up two dozen times with Business Associates<\/a> sending signals of access and power to those prepared to pay for it. The American People<\/a> committed accountability, demanded accountability and how these schemes have compromised our national security. They demand a safeguard to be put in place to prevent Public Officials<\/a> from selling access to their Public Office<\/a> for private gain. Under the leadership of Kevin Mccarthy<\/a>, House Republicans<\/a> opened up the impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden<\/a>. By opening an impeachment inquiry, it is empowering congress elected by the people to continue dividing the answers and accountability. Demanding answers and accountability. This committee under this majority will not pursue such witchhunts based on manufactured allegations, innuendo, and no real evidence. Today, the House Oversight<\/a> committee will examine over two dozen pieces of evidence, including corruption and abuse of Public Office<\/a>, this includes emails, bank records, and testimony of bidens Business Associates<\/a>. Legal and Financial Experts<\/a> mention crimes have been committed as joe biden was sold around the world. The ways will follow the money and the evidence to provide accountability so that americans know that their Public Office<\/a>s are not for sale. I yelled to jason smith, for his Opening Statement<\/a> yield to jason smith, for his Opening Statement<\/a>. President biden was not just aware of his sons business dealings, but he was connected to them. In a newly released message to a Chinese Business<\/a> executive hunter biden mentioned preserving the quote keys to my familys only asset. That asset was joe biden. New evidence released in response to questions raised by members of the committee on both sides when gary and joseph, two irs whistleblowers testified july painted a disturbing picture of a revolving door between joe bidens office and his sons Business Partners<\/a>. Siegler, then vice President Biden<\/a>s official visit to ukraine occurred only days after a series of white house meetings with hunter biden and his Business Associates<\/a> regarding ukraine. Shortly after joe biden returned stateside, a Company Announced<\/a> Hunter Bidens<\/a> appointment to the board. New evidence provided shows hunter biden using his fathers position to gain favor with a millionaire including having joe biden host them at the white house in february of 2014. The Vice President<\/a> s resident alongsideat the Vice President<\/a> s residence in 2015. And then using air force two, the Business Associates<\/a> to mexico city. Whether it was at, phone calls, white house meetings, or official foreign trusts, hunter biden cashed in. Providing access to joe biden, the family brand. The biden family and their associates received millions in payments from foreign sources including from russia, china, ukraine, romania, and one email biden bragged he cut a deal for 10 million from one company for quote introductions alone. The doj wanted to keep the spotlight as far from joe biden as possible, one of the items we released yesterday was an irs interview with james biden, the president s brother in september of 2022. The agency was barred in the interview from asking him about joe biden and about whether joe biden was involved in Hunter Bidens<\/a> bill with a Chinese Energy<\/a> company. When hunter biden had a liability of over 2 Million Dollars<\/a>, mysteriously paid for by a Democrat Party<\/a> donor in kem and maurice who he barely knew, something iris investigator saw as a possible campaign violation. Leslie wolf said she did not want any of the agents to look into the allegations. On the board or notes, leslie was not personally interested in pursuing it. This is the saorne wolf who had responded to irs inator seeking approval foarcharranth a quote saying there shoulde nothing about political figure one in here, that being a reference by definition of joe biden. The biden family sold access to joe bidens power and the Biden Justice<\/a> department protected the biden brand. We must continue to follow the facts. I yield to jordan. This is a tale as old as time. Politicians take action that makes money for his family and then he tries to conceal it. Ever forget four fundamental facts, hunter biden gets put on the board, he gets paid a lot of money, hunter biden is not qualified to sit on the board. Not my word, his word. Because of the name. The executives at the area asked hunter biden to play them and help them with the pressure they are under in ukraine. Four, joe biden got ukraine on december 9, 2015 and gives a speech attacking the prosecutor that starts the process of getting that guy fired. Those facts are consistent with what the confidential human source told the fbi and the fbi recorded in the 1023 form, the same form the Justice Department<\/a> did not want to let this committee see. All of those facts, all of that was further confirmed yesterday with the information in the ways and Means Committee<\/a> released from zigler. There is a communication from hunter biden who is an executive, i feel comfortable with blue star strategy and the ability of sally and karen to deliver. Hunter biden put others in touch with blue star strategy, what were they going to deliver . That was the communication release, u. S. Officials in ukraine and in the United States<\/a> need to express support for barisma and others to the highest level decisionmakers, president of ukraine, the president s chief of staff and the prosecutor general, that is what they were going to deliver and were they successful . The interior minister confirmed that he has no longer wanted, we won communication between blue star and Hunter Bidens<\/a> Business Partner<\/a>. Also mark, congratulations to you, those are the communications, that is what they got done. When this happened in october of 2016, when the pressure is taken off the case against owen, this is the second prosecutor, joe biden fired the first one, the second prosecutor comes in and drops the charges. That is what they wanted done. The final step, the final step is the Biden Justice<\/a> department trying to sweep it all under the rug. They slow walk to investigation and they let the statute of limitations lapse, when all of the income is coming in, they tried to put together this sweetheart deal and get it passed the judge. We learned yesterday in the search warrant application, examining Hunter Bidens<\/a> electronic communication, they were not allowed to ask about political figure one. Political figure number one is the big guy, it is joe biden. They would have gotten away with it all, they would have gotten away with it all except for two great whistleblowers who sat in those seats two months ago and told their story and their story has stood up, too great whistleblowers and injected yellow water two great whistleblowers and a judge in delaware. That is why this inquiry is so important, the oldest story in the world and those are the facts. I yield back. The chair recognizes raskins of maryland. I have a parliamentary inquiry given the committee has not been authorized by the full house to conduct an impeachment inquiry. Am i correct in assuming that we are obligated to follow the rules of the house including section 370 of the rules and manuals which prescribe engaging in personalities with the president . Is would . Eastwood . Considering this is an investigation of joe biden, i assume this will come up. Right. The house is not authorized, we are operating with general rules and i think things the president lied about is engaging in personality. In fact, section 376 accusations of the president has committed a crime or even the president has done something illegal or are parliamentary are on unparliamentary. It has been authorized. What is the inquiry . The Ranking Member<\/a>, changing of the rules requires a vote from the house of representatives . The rules of the committee. The court of order, articles of impeachment are directed not before the committee. Given the unique nature and subject matter of the topic, these words will not be ruled out of order. Thank you for clarifying. We have an honest disagreement about that. We are 62 hours away from shutting down the government of the United States<\/a> of america and republicans are launching an impeachment trial based on a long debunked and discredited by. No foreign enemy has been able to shut down the government of the United States<\/a> but now maga republicans are going to do just that. I do not want to cut off Public Services<\/a> to people and deny paychecks to more than one million Service Members<\/a> without first wanting an impeachment drive, even when they do not have a shred of evidence against President Biden<\/a> for an Impeachable Offense<\/a>. Here is what some republicans have had to say over the last week about the actions of the republicans as they have watched as they do function caucuses at work as our gop colleague from nebraska don bacon said. Clown show, foolishness, terribly misguided, stupidity, failure to lead, lunatics, disgraceful, new low, pathetic, enabling chairman xi. Those folks do not have a plan. Shows us how broken they are, and individuals that want to burn the whole place down. If i said any of these things they would take my words down, the republicans talking about republicans. Let us be clear, this is not partisan warfare, it is chaotic inviting between republicans infighting, maga between extreme maga. The impeachment of the most fanatical elements the appeasement of the most fanatical elements are hurting americans. You think that the caucus is interested in anything logical, they are out to see the world burn. Donald trump posted a comment saying that the Government Shutdown<\/a> quote, is the last chance to defund the political prosecution against me and other patriots. To delay justice, donald trump would cut off paychecks to a couple one million Service Members<\/a> and federal workers and for more than one million workers and pay them later for having not worked. They would hope Food Assistance<\/a> for millions take Food Assistance<\/a> from millions of mothers and kids and take away Clinical Research<\/a> trials. Comp is convinced if we shut the government down, his prosecutions and charges will be defunded and delayed long enough to keep him from having to go before a jury this year, before the 2024 election. Like flying on a mission, Donald Trumps<\/a> followers have what messages to the world, shut down the government, shut down the prosecutions. Donald trump rings another command to his followers, that brings us here. Impeach the bum or fade into oblivion, they did it to us. The standard for impeachment is not whether they did it to us, but whether the president committed treason or bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. The constitution is relevant to them which is what donald trump wants as a republican representative can box of the Freedom Caucus<\/a> member told cnn the other day, President Trump<\/a> gone and social media says we should be impeaching President Biden<\/a>. Mccarthy says we have an impeachment inquiry, you draw the conclusion, directly or indirectly, this impeachment inquiry was the result of President Trump<\/a>s pressure. We moved from the trump ordered government shut down to a trump ordered impeachment process and back in realitybased world the majority is completely empty handed with no evidence of any president ial wrongdoing, no smoking gun, no gun, no smoke. We had to slide awkwardly into a n impeachment process without a floor vote that mccarthy insisted that was necessary when donald trump was impeached. They went to the department of justice and got an opinion saying no committee may undertake the momentous move from legislative oversight to impeachment without the llc opinion january 19, 2020. That is why the house voted in the case of donald trump, but that is exactly what has not happened here. They do not have the bows because dozens of republicans recognize what a futile and absurd process this is. Now, the hearing is the basis for impeachment inquiry of president joseph biden. Yet, they present us no basis at all today even after eight months of investigation. Have invited three witnesses to testify. Not one is an eyewitness to a president ial crime. Of any kind. Not one of them is a direct fact witness about any of the events related to ukraine and burisma. Not one of them has dissipated in the eight months of investigation in which our distinguished chairman have publicly boasted that he received 100 of everything he asked for. I quote, every subpoena i signed as chairman of the House Oversight<\/a> committee over the last five months we have gotten 100 of what we have requested, whether with the fbi, the banks or with treasury. That means we are the witnesses. In fact, the committee has received 12,000 pages of bank records. Here they are, right in front of us, printed doublesided. Not a single page shows a dime going to President Joe Biden<\/a>. We have received 2000 pages of reports the chairman subpoena. We have accepted interviews from everybody from Hunter Bidens<\/a> Business Partners<\/a> to a federal agent assigned to that investigation. Still, we found no evidence of wrongdoing by President Biden<\/a>. If the rumor is a smoking gun or a dripping water pistol, they would be presenting it today. They have got nothing on joe biden. All they can do is return to the fully demolished live at Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and donald trump launched five years ago. The burisma and spira theory, a fairytale so preposterous that one of its main authors has now disowned and repudiated it. This is the theory vice President Biden<\/a> Global Anticorruption<\/a> groups and most western governments targeted ukraine, prosecutor general showed him to removal because he was trump synthesized the lie in his august 27th post about President Biden<\/a>, saying the guy got bribed. He pay people off and he would not give 1 billion to ukraine unless they got rid of the prosecutor. Trumps story is the opposite of the truth. When biden was vp, he worked as a key player in the Obama Administration<\/a> and global communities effort to combat corruption in ukraine. In late 2015 as part of a coordinated global effort, biden called for the removal of victor snow can, corrupt ukrainian prosecutor general who did nothing about corruption in ukraine other than to participate in it. Rather than assist authorities who were actually investigating burisma and its owner, showing consistently frustrated efforts. The meeting was part of a broad Bipartisan Campaign<\/a> to oppose corruption in ukraine. In early 2016, republican senators ron johnson, rob portman and rob kirk wrote to the ukrainian president urging him to press ahead with urgent reforms to the prosecutor general office. Yet, years later in 2080 as President Trump<\/a> saw biden as a strong rival in the 2020 election, he worked with giuliani to twist the facts around and suddenly accused biden of corruption in calling for the dismissal of a corrupt prosecutor. A few months ago, chairman of the to concoct and spread this lie. A letter sent from Rudy Giuliani<\/a>s righthand man. Giuliani and him searched high and low to find anybody who would endorse the contortions about biden. Their family crusade culminated in the infamous phone call that then President Trump<\/a> made to ukrainian president zelinski in which trump threatened to withhold hundreds of billions of dollars in economic strategic and military Security Assistance<\/a> to ukraine unless so linsky embraced their ridiculous application and falsely advertised to the world ukraine was invested in joe biden. This shakedown became the basis for the first house impeachment of President Trump<\/a>. Giulianis big lie has been thoroughly debunked by multiple sources. As congressman buck, a former chief of the Criminal Division<\/a> of the u. S. Attorneys office in colorado and a member of the house Freedom Caucus<\/a> said and i quote there is in fact no evidence that show can was engaged in investigation of burisma or did joe bidens role in inspiring in any way connected to burisma. He continued, what is missing despite years of investigation is the smoking gun that connects joe biden to his never dwell sons corruption. It is scandalous to use impeachment to establish a counterfeit moral equivalent between President Biden<\/a> and honorable Public Servant<\/a> who has never been indicted or convicted of anything in his career of more than 50 years in public life and donald trump, twice impeached president who has recently been found in court to have sexually abused and defamed a woman and fraud julie inflated the value of his Real Estate Properties<\/a> while basing 91 criminal charges in four separate indictments on everything from conspiring to overthrow an election and fraud the American People<\/a> to making criminal hush money payoffs to stealing classified government documents and hiding them while obstructing justice. Impeachment is the peoples final weapon of constitutional selfdefense to against a president who behaves like a king and violates the public trust by committing treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors equivalent to them. It is reserved for extraordinary public offenses like inciting a violent insurrection against the American Government<\/a> and trying to overthrow our president ial election. That offense in 2021 was related crimes have resulted in hundreds of criminal convictions and hundreds more been prosecuted lead to Donald Trumps<\/a> second impeachment in the house on a massive bipartisan vote of 232197 in a similar larry lopsided bipartisan similarly lopsided vote in the senate. I wonder how many of my republican colleagues here who all voted against impeaching donald trump would say they were in the house at that point had reconcile their votes against impeaching trump is a grave crime of inciting a violent insurrection against the government with their call supporting impeachment of joe biden for allegedly committing a high crime misdemeanor that is not has not even been defined yet, much less prevent. Mr. Chairman, if this caucus is going to insist on going forward, we must receive the testimony of Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. The insiders know the words and rely upon which this sham impeachment is based and work to spread it. We know he is ready and willing to testify and as a former u. S. Attorney and mayor, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> will surely agree to enlighten us on everything pursuant to clause i move the Committee Subpoena<\/a> Rudy Giuliani<\/a> andpar knocks to testify in these hearings. I would like to ask for a vote on that or debate, mr. Chairman. Say it. Are they going to table it . I didnt hear a motion to table. The chair recognizes that. There is a motion to table his motion. Is there a second . I would like to ask for a recorded vote on that. This is on subpoena of the two key figures, including Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Key figures for what . This is your theory about why President Joe Biden<\/a>, should be impeached. This is imperative for you. We are going to present evidence. What evidence . Sit back, and with the American People<\/a> see the hearing. But the American People<\/a> see this. You have gone over your time. We are going to go over this. We are going to go by the rules. Im glad that you brought the box. If we had a box of all the money, they would have reached to the ceiling. Everyones going to get five minutes. Everyone is going to get a chance. I let the Ranking Member<\/a> go away over time. We are going to abide by the five minutes. There is a motion on the floor. It is a nondebatable motion on the floor. Will the clerk get prepared for the rollcall . He made a motion. Mr. Jordan made a motion to table. It was on a second. The vote will now be on the motion to table the motion to subpoena. Will the clerk take the role . Neither of them are in jail now. Is the motion to table his notion. Mr. Jordan, votes. Mr. Turney . They vote aye. Ms. Fox. Mr. Grossman. Mr. Palmer. Mr. Higgins. Mr. Sessions. They vote aye. They vote. Mr. Turner votes aye. Mr. Donald. Mr. Donald votes yes. Mr. Armstrong. Esther armstrong votes yes. He votes aye. Ms. Green. He votes aye. They vote aye. He votes aye. Mr. Edwards, votes aye. Mr. Langworthy, votes aye. Votes aye. Mr. Askins. No. Miss norton. No. Mr. Lynch. No. Mr. Conley. Nie. Christian. No. No. Votes no. Voting no. Voting no. They vote nay. Mr. Gomez. Votes no. Brown. Brown votes no. Doonesbury. Votes no grade garcia, voting no. Mr. Frost. Votes no. Lee votes no. They vote no. Mr. Goldman. Votes no. They vote no. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman votes yes. He is not recorded. He votes yes. Mr. Fallon is not recorded. Regular order, mr. Chairman. Chairman request the regular order. We have members in route to vote. I was mr. Palmer recorded . They are not yet recorded. They vote aye. Motion to close the vote. Mr. Chairman . Second. Green has voted aye. Chair recognizes them. However my recorded works you have voted aye. They have voted aye. Mr. Chairman. Yes. The chair recognizes mr. Fallon. All my recorded . Parliamentary inquiry. They are trying to close the vote. It was properly looking at a second. Will the clerk called role . Aye, 20, no, 19. Motion passes to table. Please to welcome an expert panel. They have expertise to todays hearing. They are looking at the chair for Public Interest<\/a> at George Washington<\/a> University Law<\/a> school. This is a nationally recognized legal scholar. They have areas ranging from constitutional law, to legal theory. This is the United States<\/a> department. They have former assistant attorney generals. They have the litigation of civil, criminal trials, and other taxations. We have the founder of the consulting accountants. They have a committed over 40 years of financial and consulting experiences. They have testified in over 80 trials, including trials involving criminal, civil, and financial fraud. Michael gerhardt serves as a distinguished processor at the university of North Carolina<\/a> chapel hill. He is the author of seven books, and has written more than 100 law review articles. This is the nations leading use publications. They are trying to stand and raise the right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so hope you got . They are looking at the affirmative. You may be seated. We appreciate you being here today. We look forward to your testimony. We have read your witness statements. They have looked at the records. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that they can hear you. They will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow. This is part of the testimony. I now recognize the professor, to give his Opening Statement<\/a>. Thank you. Ranking members, and members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you today. We are talking about what is undoubtably the most waiting constitutional decision that you have under article one. This is other than declaration of war. That is the potential impeachment of the president of the dates. Four years ago, its all about donald trump. They were trying to go through it. We have shortening intervals between other impeachments. This should be the cause of concern. This is for all the members. This on both sides. Im trying to emphasize what it is. The question of impeachment inquiry. Is not on articles of impeachment. They are trying to look at support. I also do believe that the house has passed the threshold for impeachment inquiries and having said that, i want to just address all of these cable passes that led me to that conclusion. President joe biden, has indeed spoken falsely about these foreign deals. The Washington Post<\/a>, and other newspapers, have passed some comment. They are most. Trenton, was the focus of a multimillion dollar influence peddling scheme. Finally, President Joe Biden<\/a>, may have benefited from millions of dollars as a part of that schema. It should not be taken out of context. They are merely allegations. They should not become presumptions of impeachment or other comment with this conduct. They have a difficult issue under the impeachment clause. Some of this was rejected. They can be dishonest. They can lie to the American People<\/a>. It is not an Impeachable Offense<\/a>. It is not like any president. This is since james madison. This is what i call guardrails. They are the best practices. They are trying to look at the layout with President Joe Biden<\/a>. Im saying that in my testimony. This should not be a close question. It should not be a rush to judgment. You should be able to avoid the confirmation bias that can occur in this process. This is part of the influence process. United states have assigned treaties to combat this form of corruption around the world. That is the inescapable action. We need to find answers for some of these questions. Im running out of time. I would like to make one last observation. If i may. These are constitutional moments that they will transcend from each of us. It calls for something that is difficult. It is all about clarity for these members. This body is a powerful teacher. You can teach that. We can disagree without hating each other. These are close issues. Some of these issues really do gravitate in favor of the president. I would simply say that this is a moment where members of citizens cant do it. We cant appear before you today. The chairman invited me to share my thoughts on the conduct investigation into hunter biden. I make my comments on my own behalf as a private citizen, and not on behalf of any person with whom i might have been affiliated. I learned that experience irs agents, are looking at the report about the of for other criminal tax investigations. I felt compelled to share how this is supposed to work. They have no reason to appreciate how low these allegations are. Without a frame of reference, is difficult to know how seriously to take things. Mike pence, had u. S. Attorneys looking at whether it was his decision or not to bring charges to the investigations. This was the final draw. Their proven to have substantial thermal charges. We realize that they had to come forward. This is internally within the irs. This is as early as june 2020. This is all encountering it. There have been no responses. We are trying to come forward to congress. Special agents do the same. This is what followed, and compelled me to write them. My first article was to throw Hunter Bidens<\/a> plea deal in the trash. This worked out. They had a miscarriage of justice. After the commentary was published, i heard from many people forcibly appalled at the unfolding injustice. This is a different aspect from the handling of the hunter biden matter. They had provable offenses. This was appalling. It is not significant for the plea agreement. This was announced on june 20th. Let me review what came before. We knew they were going to let Congress Know<\/a> about the obstructions they were encountering. Later, they sat for hours, and subscribe for testimonies. It was expected that the committee would make the testimony public. This was on june 2022. This was a different announcer. They beat the publication of the whistleblowers testimony by the skin of his teeth. Two days. If they do not come forward, they will not supply any charges at all. My second wall street journal commentary was published on july 2025. This is what they have proven. The charges in the tax divisions are authorizing all of this. They are also looking at people who have been caught up in the system. They have suffered the consequences that the law provides. Im trying to proceed on this commentary too. They have been enforced. The nature of any investigation is following the lead. That didnt happen right here. This team is not permitted to search the guest house of President Joe Biden<\/a>s delaware mansion, and Hunter Bidens<\/a> Storage Facility<\/a> in virginia. Trying to interview family members and Business Associates<\/a>. Trying to examine the absence of Hunter Bidens<\/a> laptop. The fbi confirmed that the devices were hundred, and they were under investigation. Dont forget, a full year after that in october 2020, fbi officials were telling twitter that the laptop was russian disinformation. This is already into an online photography platform. This was all developed. Agents follow wherever they were taken. When they take them in the direction of a new investigation, they open one. Theyre trying to block the investigation into the tax crimes. Im thinking the committee. Good morning. Distinguished members of this committee, guess, and other distinguished guests thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I agree to testify in these proceedings, in order to help this committee, and the American People<\/a>, gain a better understanding of how far they are committed. They know how complex business arrangements, sometimes using Liability Companies<\/a>, sometimes Show Companies<\/a>, are used. This is how money is being used by fosters to facilitate the conduct of illicit activities. Let me be clear, i am not prejudging the fact that we have immersed anything with President Joe Biden<\/a>s family, and the other businesses. They had other origins for foreign services. They have corruption for any wrongdoing. In my opinion, more information needs to be gathered. They are making assessments. I am here today to lend my expertise to answer questions that this committee may have while the event the investigation. They are gathering more facts about the business dealings from President Joe Biden<\/a>s family, and Business Associates<\/a>. They have a certified examiner. They are uncovering the truth when it comes to allegations of fraud, corruption, and wrongdoing. They are looking at the United States<\/a> department of justice. This is the Worlds Largest<\/a> ponzi scheme. I worked in the other case, the International Brotherhood<\/a> of teamsters election corruption cases, as well as some of the United States<\/a> largest cases of tax fraud, to name a few. Is there a fire . If there was or is a fire, how big is it . They are receiving millions of dollars of payments from foreign entities and individuals. What services, if any, were being provided . What was the substance of the alleged service being provided . Was money being paid for a fair amount with those services . What political favors are being treated . These are the questions that as a forensic accountant, i routinely ask, to hire and investigate allegations of corruption and fraud. There is a great deal of evidence that has been collected to answer these very questions. However, much more information is still needed, in order to be able to answer these questions, and make a final determination as to whether or not the President Joe Biden<\/a> family and the associate businesses were involved in any improper or illicit activities. They are looking at if those activities, if any, were working with President Joe Biden<\/a>, or others. We are purposely creating a labyrinth of limited Liability Companies<\/a> to create an open network of entities, to hide improper conduct. These complex business arrangements are looking at it, and their moving money around the globe in a manner designed to avoid detection of the underlying illegal activities, as well as the movements of money tied to that illegal activity. This is a critical component of any fraud investigation. The company is like an empty shell. Shell companies have no employees, offices, or company businesses. These p. O. Boxes for mailing addresses. They can be used for legitimate activities. They are looking at fraudulent activities. They have tax evasion, Money Laundering<\/a>, and other solicit practices. It takes a heavy lift to pull the covers back on the Show Companies<\/a> to determine who the true Beneficial Owners<\/a> are, where the money went, and to expose the true examination of their existence. They have a great deal of persistence. They have fraud investigations that can expose the identity of the wizards behind these curtains. This is the extent of their activities. This is all from us today before you reach any conclusions. The American People<\/a> deserve the truth. They are concluding investigations. This should not be part of the political aspirations. They have any such investigations. They have many conclusions being reached. Thank you for the opportunity to being here today. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you very much. I want to thank the Ranking Member<\/a>s as well. From this committee, i appreciate the honor and a privilege to be able to appear before you today. We are talking about the basis for inquiries from President Joe Biden<\/a>. I think it is a good place to begin. This is with the federal papers. This is all being worn. It is the dangers of looking at impeachment through petty partisanship. This is more or less friendly to the accused. In many cases, they will connect themselves with pre existing factions. They are trying to look at the other interests. This is on one side, or the other. In such cases, the decision will be regulated more by the relative strength of the parties. This is near innocence or guilt. I think he knew what he was talking about. I think he may well describe the current set of proceedings. One thing i might add to all of that, is that the frames designed for impeachment processes, are following or complying with several safeguards. It is important that we keep the safeguards in mind. These proceedings will go on. The first is the necessity. We are looking at credible evidence of the commission of treason, bribery, and other high crimes. At least not that i have yet heard, they have such credible evidence. Let me give you an example of what i fear is similar to the current proceedings. Hunter biden, is arrested for speeding in a car owned by his father. I dont think that is how the law should work. I dont think that is how impeachment should work. I am just a law professor and citizen. I come here with great. When speaking to an important body like this. I respect them a great deal. They have all of these facts. Hunter biden, was on the board. He was not qualified. It was nothing about President Joe Biden<\/a>. They have executives who asked hunter biden for help. Again, not yet any proof about any kind of complicity. Lastly, President Joe Biden<\/a>, gave a speech. If that what it is, it is a basis for this inquiry. I say that with all respect. I think that is part of the problem. I think that, and Many Americans<\/a> think that. This is with respect to these proceedings. A second safeguard is the fifth amendment due process clause. It requires fundamental fairness. In these proceedings, something has happened to President Joe Biden<\/a>. This was said to have happened to donald trump in 2019. That was that the burden has flipped. President joe biden, had to prove that he was innocent. Any further investigation is being done to ensure that President Joe Biden<\/a>, had to prove his innocence. Rather than the committee was able to connect done to make sure that mr. Biden has to prove his innocence rather than the committee being able to connect the dots in a convincing way. It is not up to me to persuade, it is the American People<\/a>s whose trust you deserve and have to maintain. A third principle is judicial review. May i remind the committee about the Supreme Court<\/a> decision , the court said about this committee, in fact, it has to conduct an investigation for a legitimate purpose. A fishing expedition is not a legitimate purpose. Moreover, the court said, it is not a legitimate purpose for the house or a House Committee<\/a> to be conducting the function of Law Enforcement<\/a>. I heard many references to criminal misbehavior, whether or not somebody should be thrown in jail. Criticisms of the prosecutor, mr. Weiss, that sounds like an attempt to substitute for the proper, legitimate proceedings of the house. Two other safeguards, real quickly, these proceedings should be based on principle and not partisanship. I fear that what we are hearing today, which can be traced back to 2019, accusations made against joe biden as far back as the, is driven by partisan animus rather than by principal. The final safeguards for the full house to authorize an impeachment inquiry. That does not come from the. That comes from Speaker Mccarthy<\/a> and mr. Trumps Justice Department<\/a> who said the committee must be authorized by the full house. That has not happened. My concern is with the constitution. That is what my devotion is to and i hope all of us understand that there is nothing more serious than honoring our constitution and following the design of the framers gave us. I do want to state the fact, in 2019, the washington, d. C. District court said a vote of the full house was not required to commence an impeachment inquiry. We will begin the question and answer phase. We have 47 members here today that will ask questions. We will abide by the five minutes. I will begin, followed by Ranking Member<\/a>, raskin, another mike savino targeting specific wires originated from beijing. Most of our Bank Subpoenas<\/a> have been from joe biden Family Associates<\/a> accounts resulting in bank records of thousands of pages, we identify these Bank Accounts<\/a> based on suspicious activity reports filed with the Treasury Department<\/a> after being flagged by the banks. The bank records obtained show that, on august second, 2019, jonathan lee in beijing sent hunter biden 250,000, listing joe bidens home address in wilmington, delaware, the wire stated it was for a personal investment. A second wire showed that, on july 26, 2019, ms. Shin sent 10,000, listing joe bidens home address. The 10,000 wire said it was a loan to beneficiary lets talk about the 250,000 personal investment. It looks like jonathan lee was making a substantial investment in the biden family after joe biden announced his run for the presidency in april of 2019. Who is jonathan lee . During the devon archer interview, he explained how vice President Biden<\/a> developed a relationship with jonathan lee. Joe biden had coffee with jonathan lee in beijing. He talked with him on the phone and wrote a College Recommendation Letter<\/a> for the children of mr. Lee. Hunter biden that with jonathan lee after flying on air force to with joe biden. The people cultivated a relationship for one reason only , to access their wealth. As we all know, the bidens had nothing to sell except the brand which was joe biden. Hunter biden sold the brand well, making the biden family millions from china and elsewhere. While joe biden was Vice President<\/a> , hunter biden was an investor in a Chinese Investment<\/a> fund with jonathan li and on the percentage of it through one of his many llcs, a political problem for his dad who was running for president. In october of 2019, two months after the biting wires, the lawyer hunter biden said he served only as a member of the board of directors as an unpaid position, he was in an unpaid position. They claimed the money was a documented loan from a private individual. These wire statements are concerning and the defenders of the biden family justification is not consistent from what we know from the treasury. Mr. Dubinsky, i am skeptical that a quarter Million Dollars<\/a> payment from jonathan li and another woman was a loan because the wire states it was a personal investment. We have reviewed documents from the treasury that do not support the theory. In your experience are International Loans<\/a> of this amount supported by documentations such as loan terms, interest rates, and repayment schedules . Yes. They typically would be. You would see documents setting forth the interest rates, all of those things. Absolutely. Would it be important to review the bank records of hunter biden to see if he pay back the money to jonathan li , or so the money to someone else, i dont know, using a cashiers check . As somebody mentioned, it is important to follow the money. That is very important in the situation. Professor turley, we know this was selling the biden brand we have shown that the biden family and their Companies Receive<\/a> more than 15 million without providing any known legitimate services between 2014 and 2019. If you include the Business Associates<\/a> of their companies, they received over 24 million. Based on evidence we have developed so far, one of the potential loss we should be analyzing during our impeachment inquiry . Thank you, mr. Chairman. I lay out what are the most obvious potential articles of impeachment without saying those have been established. The ones i recommend or the ability to focus on, one thing i recommend that the Committee Start<\/a> by looking at potential crimes. I have said that in the past, too, it is an important thing to frontload criminal acts for the reasons i laid out. It gives a very High Standard<\/a> for impeachment. Higher than it is binding, you can impeach for noncriminal conduct. I suggest starting there. As i talk about in my testimony , bribery, obstruction, conspiracy, use of power, those have all been raised in past impeachments. Abuse of power is the article that is very common, it is a catchall. It is the one i have been a little bit uncomfortable with and why i suggest you end there. Because that brings in a lot of noncriminal conduct and you need to focus as much as you can on the evidence and whether you can establish these connections. I will recognize mr. Raskin of maryland. Professor gerhardt, have there ever been an impeachment process launched in the middle of a Government Shutdown<\/a> . No. Why did the office of Legal Counsel<\/a> opined that there must be a vote of the full house before a committee launches into an impeachment investigation . Why did Speaker Mccarthy<\/a> insist and say that there would be one in this case . I think the office of Legal Counsel<\/a> said that, at least in part, because an impeachment inquiry is deadly serious. Again, just about the most serious thing in the House Committee<\/a> ever undertakes. One safeguard against a committee acting on the basis of the Party Membership<\/a> is to ensure that the full house is behind the impeachment inquiry. A dozen of our colleagues on the republican side have already called for impeachment. I was struck by the fact that, of the four Expert Witness<\/a>es brought together today, not a single one of them argued that a sufficient quantum of evidence exists today to justify the impeachment of President Joe Biden<\/a>. Is there any president for launching an impeachment inquiry absent evidence of wrongdoing by the president . No. I would point out that Richard Nixon<\/a> and bill clinton, President Trump<\/a> in 2019, the full house authorized the impeachment inquiries. A letter was sent to us, addressed to chairman comer, the narrative you are seeking for this investigation has been proven false many times over by a wide array of respected sources. There is simply no merit to investigating this matter any further. He says, please abandoned this effort to investigate the biden family, which is nothing more than a wild goose chase. He was the righthand man of Rudy Giuliani<\/a> gallivanting all over the world to put a case together in 2019 that joe biden had done something wrong. Do you agree that, given that the evidence we have looked at over eight months, it comes down to this discredited Conspiracy Theory<\/a> and we should hear from those responsible for concocting the story in the first case in the first place, specifically about Rudy Giuliani<\/a> . Absolutely. What about the fact that, the very first act of the committee in the impeachment investigation was to reject the idea of subpoenaing Rudy Giuliani<\/a> who are at the heart of the story that is the basis for impeachment . I think, if there will be an investigation into the president , all the evidence, all the participants, anyone that has knowledge should be spoken to. We have a lot of colleagues on this committee and off the committee, who have called for the impeachment of joe biden, who also voted against impeaching donald trump for inciting a violent insurrection against the union. Hundreds of people have gone to jail in subsidiary ask under the umbrella of that insurrectionary process. Can you come up with a theory that would allow someone to say , i am going to vote to impeach joe biden for offenses unstated and evidence unknown, but i will oppose and vote against the impeachment of donald trump for inciting a violent interaction against the union, something that concurrent bipartisan majorities voted for in the house and senate. . I cannot, as a law professor, one of the things i suggest to my students in trying to assess the constitutionality of any governmental action take the names out, switch the names, see if the outcome is the same. If joe biden has incited a violent insurrection against the unit as safe fight like hell, would you consider that to be in Impeachable Offense<\/a> . Absolutely. To your mind, in applying the law to the facts, have you seen any evidence that joe biden has done anything remotely comparable to what donald trump did which him his impeachment in the bipartisan vote in the house . I have not done with all due respect, i heard the phrase, biden family many times, i dont know who the biden family is. I do not know who is being referenced. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i would like to move for unanimous consent to introduce the july 18, 2023 letter to you and me and the rest of the committee into the official record. Without objection, so ordered. We recognize jason smith from missouri for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is amazing to be sitting on your committee and a pleasure to be here. Yesterday, we had a committee release over 700 pages of documents that came from the two irs whistleblowers. Based on the last oversight hearing, when they presented, before this committee, where members, republican and democrat, asked for Additional Information<\/a>, they provided it and we brought it forward. What was interesting, the other side of the aisle, actually mentioned donald trump a lot more than they ever mentioned joe biden. It is happening over here, too. It is consistent in the ways and Means Committee<\/a> and the Oversight Committee<\/a>. Ms. Oconnor, yesterday, the ways and Means Committee<\/a> voted to release Additional Information<\/a> provided by gary shapley and Joseph Ziegler<\/a> , one of the documents shows that the assistant u. S. Attorney, leslie wolf, ordered investigators not to pursue leads into possible Campaign Finance<\/a> violations. We know that over 2 million of Hunter Bidens<\/a> tax liabilities were paid off by a big Democrat Party<\/a> donor and a hollywood lawyer. Named kevin morris. James biden, the brother of the president , told investigators that he did not know how hunter biden even knew this individual. But was later asked to thank him for the payment, on behalf of the family. The biden family. The family. So, how would such payment, that essentially pushed under the rug the president s sons tax problems, at least for one year, be considered a Campaign Finance<\/a> violation on part of the Biden Campaign<\/a> . Thank you for the question. I have no idea. I thought you were going to ask me, why would leslie wolf say dont look into that . I think the answer to that is probably, if it is a campaign contribution, it implicates political person number one, and that apparently is a big barrier that had been created throughout this entire investigation. As far as it being a campaign contribution, that to me those was intended to satisfy the liabilities my two years of the hunter biden file of unpaid taxes. Is it unusual for an assistant prosecutor to say do not look at this individual, this person, they are off limits . That is how investigations develop, the agents follow the leads wherever they take them. In this case, a legitimate investigation was being done of money that was being paid and for the assistant u. S. Attorney, who is orchestrating the investigation to say, do not look at that anymore, i think the reason is related to another instruction of hers, she did not want to get Public Integrity<\/a> involved which tells us she was looking beyond hunter biden and into a person whose activities would be subject to Public Integrity<\/a> at doj. Because you worked tax division for doj, if kevin morris gave a gift of 2 million to help pay off Hunter Bidens<\/a> debts, who has to report that on their taxes . Hunter biden or mr. Morse . The parties are claiming it is a loan, and hunter biden pay the back . Would it have to be reported on tax records . If it is a loan, no, but i have not seen the documentation. I am sure that is what mr. Dubinsky can tell you, calling something a loan is something people used to claimant is not taxable income. We uncovered, yesterday, that the biden Family Associates<\/a> received over 20 million from 23 Different Countries<\/a> that they had business ties to, or communications with, and also they had 20 shell llcs where they would transfer money in and out. If you were still sitting in her office in the Doj Tax Division<\/a>, with this web of entities and activities concern you . I would make sure that my prosecutors were concerned about it. Thank you. We recognize ms. Norton from the district of columbia. Thank you. Professor gerhardt , pleased to have you with us. In your testimony, you referenced Alexander Hamiltons<\/a> warning about the dangers of trivializing impeachment. Through petty partisanship. Let me ask you, mr. Gerhardt , do you think that initiating an impeachment inquiry against President Biden<\/a> without any evidence of wrongdoing by the president meets any basis standard of proof . Not credible proof at all. In my opinion. In fact, one thing to keep in mind about a hearing like this, critical importance of Building Public<\/a> trust. That gets built in part on the basis of credible evidence. Professor gerhardt , what is the risk to our constitution and even for the rule of law if impeachments are initiated without any evidence of wrongdoing by a president . They trivialize impeachment. They trivialize the constitution. They ride roughshod over the rule of law. Nothing good comes from abusing a power, whether done by a president or by congress. Professor gerhardt , do you believe that initiating an impeachment inquiry without any evidence of wrongdoing by a president is consistent with the rule with the view that impeachment is a great and solemn duty . Impeachment is a grave and solemn duty, which means the evidence regarding burisma should be heard and that would give credibility to what the committee is doing. I will add that it is incredible we are holding this sham hearing two days before the government will shut down. Instead of this hearing, we could be discussing how to form a government or we could discuss ideas to exempt federal Government Shutdown<\/a>s and federal and independent agencies that are exclusively or primarily federally funded but have jurisdiction over local civil and criminal justice matters. Or we could be discussing how we are going to provide back pay to federal contract workers if republicans do push us into a shutdown. Instead, we are holding this sham hearing. I yield the remainder of my time to mr. Raskin. Thank you for that. Mr. Comer referred to a 2019 wire to hunter biden while President Biden<\/a> was not in office. He was a private citizen and so was hunter biden, hunter biden has never held Public Office<\/a>. Mr. Smith referenced a doj email from 2020, during the Donald Trump Administration<\/a>, professor gerhardt, what do you make of the idea of impeaching a president while he is in office for something that his son did, or may have received, when the president was not in office . It is not consistent with the american legal system imagine if the names are switched. Imagine if this is Jared Kushner<\/a>. Mr. Smith spoke about 20 million for hunter biden, that he received, put in the names of different family members. I think the Washington Post<\/a> debunked that this weekend, saying it was 8 million or 9 million, but lets say it was 20 million, 1 of the 2 billion that was brought back by Jared Kushner<\/a> from saudi arabia to accompany Jared Kushner<\/a> created a day after the Donald Trump Administration<\/a> ended. If there were no other evidence, would it be fair to attribute that to Million Dollars<\/a> that Jared Kushner<\/a> pocketed with the 25 million Management Fee<\/a> every year, would it be fair to attribute all of that to donald trump because it is his soninlaw . Not without any evidence. Because the principle of american law is people are responsible for their own conduct and not the conduct of their adult children, is that right . That is correct. I yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Jordan from ohio. Mr. Gerhardt, it was in a speech, he leveraged 1 billion of american tax money at a time when the government was supportive of the prosecutor. Here is what our government said, the assistant secretary of state, we have been impressed with the ambitious reform and anticorruption agenda of your government, written to the prosecutor general who joe biden leverages our money to give fired. The United States<\/a> fully support your effort to fight corruptions, she further, the Interagency Policy Committee<\/a> said this on october 1st, 2015. The ipc recommends moving forward with the third Loan Guarantee<\/a> to ukraine in the near term. Even after joe biden gives the speech, on december 9th, the European Commission<\/a> said, there were reports that anticorruption benchmark is deemed to have been achieved for ukraine. But the most telling evidence is what his Business Partner<\/a> said, devon archer, when we deposed him under oath two months ago said this, here is the question, the request was helped from the United States<\/a> government to deal with the pressure they were under from the prosecutor. You know what the response was, that is correct. Next question, what did hunter biden do after he was given the request . He called his dad. That is what we are investigating, that is one of the three things professor turley talked about, the influence peddling scheme i want to go to those three things, false statement includes peddling schemes and joe biden may have benefited the third one first, is a benefit your family, can it benefit your family be a benefit to you . It is. There has been a repeated statement that you need to show that the president excepted direct money in order for this to constitute a benefit, even under criminal cases, the deal with bribery and extortion, the hobbs act, the courts have rejected that and said that money going to family members is in fact a benefit. I do not see any legal basis for that the strongest case is obviously if you have a direct payment. But, this idea that you can have millions going to a politicians family, and that is not a benefit, i think is pretty fallacious. How about the false claims . You said, to the extent the president this is a little broader, to the extent the president use the white house staff to maintain false claims or resist disclosures, it can fit into the type of nixon type abuse power model. We know all kinds of false statements have been made by the white house, joe biden has made them, said it was a last question when they asked if he has ever spoke to a sons Business Partner<\/a>, we know that was false, somebody said the president s confidence son did not break the law, the press secretary said, never spoke to his son about his overseas business dealings, what you think about those false statements from the white house in this abuse of power issue . The involvement of white house staff and executive branch staff have been a tripwire we saw in nixon and some extent even bill clinton, the degree to which you would list support for a false narrative or to obstruct congress can go into things like abuse of power one of the things i suggested is that, if you look at past impeachment inquiries, once again, this is an inquiry to find evidence, we are not voting on articles of impeachment, those allegations tend to develop last. You look at what you have found. How about the attorney general i am concerned about statements he made, march 1st, 2023 in front of the senate, he was asked about the investigation of mr. Weiss, he said, mr. Weiss has full authority to bring cases in other jurisdictions if he feels it is necessary. Last week, the attorney general told us that weiss had the authority because i promised him he would have the authority if he asked. That seems to be something different. What he said to the senate, he has full authority, no problem, last week he told the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> he had authority because i promised, if you would talk to me, i would give him authority that already told the senate he had, do you see concerned with false statements coming from the Biden Justice<\/a> department . There is a concern, you dont have to prejudge the evidence to say this is part of the inquiry. What i dont understand is the opposition to the inquiry itself. It seems to me that the test is , what the alleged conduct, if proven, establish Impeachable Offense<\/a>s are correct and is there a credible basis for those allegations . I think the answer is clearly yes, there is a basis to look at the president s conduct without prejudging whether that it qualifies at the beginning of that inquiry as an article of impeachment. You dont need a full vote of the house to proceed in an impeachment inquiry. In fact, the democrats did it four years ago, i was at an impeachment deposition run by adam schiff in the basement of the capitol and i went to the floor, i am an impeachment deposition and i went to the floor to vote on opening an impeachment inquiry. They did the same thing because you have that authority as a congress, when the speaker of the house makes that designation. Speaker nancy pelosi did initiate the impeachment and in some cases you have a later vote. I have said that i considered that the best practice, to have a vote of the house. But the court that was referenced earlier looked at this and said the constitution does not require a resolution. If you look at all the impeachments, often there was a resolution, does not mean it is not a Good Practice<\/a> but the constitution itself does not require such a resolution. We recognize mr. Lynch. The experts do bring expertise, but they do not bring the facts or evidence. None of you can illustrate actions by the president with respect to this inquiry. Ms. Oconnor, you said you written a commentary, you would go to prison or what joe biden did come you mean, for what hunter biden did. I was cutting downwards. That is an important word you left out. I regretted it immediately. I would like to enter it into the record. You would go to prison for what hunter biden did. That is an important word. I did delete it intentionally. Reclaiming my time. When i walked into this hearing room, my first question was, where is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> . This is supposed to be an inquiry on the facts against the president for potentially an impeachment. Articles of impeachment. The one person, the one person, who was an agent of President Trump<\/a> was sent to ukraine to dig up dirt, find some dirt on joe biden. Just like he said to the Election Officials<\/a> in georgia, find me 11,780 votes. Find me dirt on joe biden. And we do not have him here. We are not allowed to ask him questions. Professor gerhardt , would it not be helpful to have a factual witness here who was let me just read from an excerpt of the call between donald trump and the ukrainian president. He says, rudy very much knows what is happening, he is a very capable guy, if you could speak to him, that would be great. The other thing, a lot of talk about joe bidens son, that he stop the prosecution, people want to find out, what you could do with the attorney general would be great. He is actually placing Rudy Giuliani<\/a> in ukraine with the imprimatur of authority over the president. Would not that be a useful witness . It seems obvious he should be brought before the committee. You would think so. We have a lot of allegations. I have heard about emails from hunter biden from china, hunter biden cashed in the irs interview with james biden, i hear a lot about the biden family. This is an impeachment inquiry about President Biden<\/a>. I would try to discern what the allegations are for the president because they are nonexistent at this point. Is there a reason the other question, why hasnt Rudy Giuliani<\/a>, if he was such a key witness and on the ground with direct authority from the present, why isnt he here . I think, professor gerhardt , maybe you could talk about this, Rudy Giuliani<\/a> also lost 60 cases, he brought 60 cases across United States<\/a> with respect to the big lie, he was the midwife of the big lie, he brought 60 cases and lost them all for lack of evidence. I believe that hurts his credibility, does it not . It does, his credibility has been hurt in a number of different ways. He also made allegations against the Voting Machines<\/a> and being sued by them because he falsely declared that those machines were unfairly helping President Biden<\/a> . That is right. Wouldnt that lead to a drop in credibility on behalf of mr. Giulianis testimony . I agree with you and would say, because Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is a lawyer, he has to abide and comply with the rules of professional conduct and he is in trouble because he has not. We recognize the chairman of the house intelligence committee, mr. Turner from ohio. Thank you so much for the materials you provided, your legal analysis, mr. Turley, is incredible and historic and the legal descriptions of the aspects of, how do you conduct an impeachment investigations, what are the standards for an impeachment investigation, and taking some of the public facts that you are aware of and comparing them to Congressional Authority<\/a> and oversight responsibilities. It does help the overall discussion and gives validity to the need for this committee to move forward on the investigation as you look historically what has happened. You made some comments in your Opening Statement<\/a> about your description that i think are important to focus on in trying to guide our investigation. You said it is not criminal for a president or Vice President<\/a> to light. You also said that it is not criminal that hunter biden received someone pays the child of the Vice President<\/a> for doing nothing is not necessarily criminal, not your words, my words you said that taking official actions to benefit individuals of a third party to induce them to financially benefit your family would be a crime. Is that correct . It is. If you look at the treaties and sources i cited, the United States<\/a> has for years combated influence peddling as a prototypical form of public corruption. Much influence peddling follows that pattern. Many people now except that, what hunter biden did was rather wrong and open influence peddling. The only question is, was the president involved in that . I am not prejudging that. There is an argument that you hear, they were just selling the illusion of access. The fact is, you have to ask yourself one question, how do you know . Even if you accept that selling the illusion of access is not misconduct, how do you know . That is where i will go next. There is another concerning aspect of President Joe Biden<\/a>s actions as Vice President<\/a> for which there is currently an active criminal investigation, that is his misuse of classified documents. There has been appointed by the department of justice, the attorney general, a special prosecutor for the purposes of investigating the federal crimes that could have arisen as a result from this president s misuse of classified documents that he had them at the center for diplomacy and Global Engagement<\/a> under wilmington, delaware private residence of joe biden. Places where there were other people in one of those other people happens to be hunter biden. This committee in its scope of this investigation indicates that these classified materials are also relevant because the Oversight Committee<\/a> has requested information regarding the classified materials discovered in the president s home where his son has resided during the time relevant to the investigation and personal office. But the white house has not provided this information. Obviously, his son was receiving payments from romania, russia, ukraine, china. If there are in those documents, documents relating to the prosecutor in ukraine, or burisma itself, or other aspects of ukraine, or any parties or individuals that were making payments to hunter biden, that would be relevant . It would be relevant. One of the things i address in my testimony, the most concerning line for me in this inquiry is preoffice conduct. What i say is that there should be a type of rebuttable presumption against bringing in preoffice conduct. But there is precedent he was in office because he would not have access to classified documents. He had these documents given to him. In his scope as senator and as Vice President<\/a> , there has been a lot of talk that perhaps the present inadvertently ended up with these documents. There is an unbelievable amount of documents and he is a quarter and was mishandling them. Can you infer intent by knowledge of the law . President biden knows how to handle classified documents and knows what mishandling is. Wouldnt that be in tribute to his intent . That can all go to a question of establishing intent. In these cases you do not have a confession. I am not sure if the documents matter will become relevant to an impeachment inquiry. I have said earlier that the issue that concerns me about the documents is that they were distributed to different sources it appears. They went to different locations. There are accounts of being in the president s home. Were they divided and why . It is not clear whether that would amount to an Impeachable Offense<\/a>. You would have to take that next step, these documents are a threat to national security. We have to get to the bottom of why was he taking these and what was he doing with them . Consent motion. I ask unanimous consent to interest page 131 of the transcript of devon archers testimony where the question is asked, but he did not provide the burisma executives with access to his father, that was an illusion mac benjamin is out of order, you will have time in your five minutes and we recognize mr. Connolly. Is an admitted . I object to the clock is ticking. Mr. Goldman is taking her time. You are taking time away from me unfairly. Distract, deflect, hold onto those two words, distract and deflect. I think this hearing is about, look over here, not over there. Professor gerhardt , i have heard concerns about branding. Shouldnt we be concerned about all of the biden towers all over the world where foreign partnerships were formed and influence was used here in the United States<\/a> . I have seen these towers in indonesia, the philippines, turkey, i even saw one in chicago. Shouldnt that be a source of concern of this committee in terms of influence foreign and domestic . If there were such things as biden buildings was there anyone who did have them . We all know. Could you tell us . If were talking about mr. Trump thank you. When President Biden<\/a> appointed his son to manage u. S. Foreign policy in the persian gulf and the middle east, by the way, a son who could not qualify for getting a security clearance but President Biden<\/a> granted it anyhow. After leaving the white house, getting a 2 million deal. We are told by mr. Dubinsky, follow the money, especially foreign money. Should that be of concern that there was a sweetheart deal which occurred with the blessing of the president with foreign money and should we look into hunter biden for that, given the fact that happened . It should have had concern with President Trump<\/a> and his soninlaw. I got that wrong again. I am sorry. I heard again, i think it was professor turley, he is not prejudging, of course, he is just suggesting, that maybe we want to look into criminal activity like obstruction, fraud , and abuse of power. Lets take fraud. Shouldnt we be concerned that a new york judge just found President Biden<\/a>s organization committing fraud every year for the last 10 or 15 years . And under the martin law in new york that Biden Organization<\/a> is subject to dismemberment, dismantling because of fraudulent activity . That should be of concern with respect to mr. Trump. Mr. Trump again. And a judge actually made the ruling . Yes, sir. Should we be concerned about the personal while we are at it, shouldnt we be concerned about the personal behavior of the president . For example, President Biden<\/a>, being found guilty of Sexual Assault<\/a> and defamation associated with that activity in a civil court, in this case in new york . We should be concerned as it relates to mr. Trump. Mr. Trump again. I just think that, one of the reasons we are here is because somebody has been indicted in four different locales for four different sets of concerns with , i think, 81, 91 actual counts. And has been found guilty in two civil proceedings, one involving sexual behavior. And one on actual corporate, fraudulent activity. We dont want to talk about any of that but we want to speculate about discredited testimony from discredited witnesses like Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. Who we are afraid to subpoena. That is what this is all about. This is about our need to defend joe biden, that is not what this is about, this is about their need that we get off topic and no longer talk about the pending, criminal trials of the former president of United States<\/a>. If anything is worthy of examination, that is, not this i yelled back. We recognize mr. Donald. Point of order. We recognize mr. Donalds. You are out of order, mr. Goldman. The chair recognizes mr. Donalds for five minutes. The rules require you to recognize me. No for a point of order they do. I request the clock be set back to five minutes. Can i make a parliamentary inquiry, are we not to make points of order you keep speaking about no evidence, just listen. I am trying to introduce evidence. You have had your share of evidence. Mr. Donalds, five minutes. Thank you. Mr. Dubinsky, a lot of talk about evidence, on the screens we have an organizational chart from the irs investigated team looking into the Business Practices<\/a> of hunter biden and his associates. This chart is from 2014. Mr. Dubinsky, in my former life, i was in community banking. I am comfortable with looking at organizational charts when i first saw this chart, i first thought about a Real Estate Holding<\/a> company or a developer, this is not to demean developers, but developers typically have multiple companies that float with very different business interest is and different lines. In the business dealings of hunter biden, there is no real estate. None at all. Mr. Dubinsky, in your experience, looking at this organizational chart of Business Structure<\/a>, what do you see here back a very competent the structure of entities interrelated and would give me concern if i were an investigator. I would want to know what is going on, who is behind these, how is the money moving between them, and what is the substance of the transactions, what is really going on . Is in the interest of this committee, now in the inquiry phase, to find out all of the flow of money between these entities and what the purpose was . Absolutely. Next slide, please. We will talk evidence. This is the slide of the organizational chart of the hunter biden business and business companies, and with associates, from 2018, for the same irs investigators who were broken down the Business Structure<\/a> in 2014. Does this cause you the same concern . Yes. Lets talk about more, one point i want to make, ladies and german i know it is kind of small so i will submit this for the record and love my colleagues on the other side to see this, in 2014, one of the key owners was devon archer, who did testify and under deposition under oath by the Oversight Committee<\/a>. In 2018, devon archer is no longer listed on his but his wife is listed. When you see a situation where ownership interest moves from one spouse to the other, is that a concern of some level of fraud potentially . I would call it a red flag. That is something i would look at and try to get to the bottom of what happened, was there money behind it, what was going on . Next slide. This is a text message between going to naomi biden. Let me get my stuff back. Sorry. A text message between jim biden and hunter, it says that we can talk later, you have been drawn into something purely for the purpose of protecting dad. This is between hunter and jim biden. Last time i checked the father has passed away, i am assuming this is hunter biden saying to jim, you have been brought in for the sole purpose of protecting dad. Ms. Oconnor, should this committee get further information about the business dealings of hunter biden and how that links to jim biden, the brother of the president , and why they are so concerned with protecting dad, aka, joe biden, the president of the United States<\/a> . Yes. Thank you. This is a text message between hunter biden and naomi biden. This is famous, this is a famous one that says, i hope you all do what i did and pay for everything for this entire family for 30 years, it is really hard, but dont worry, unlike pop, i will not make you give me half your salary. Mr. Dubinsky, if you saw a text message like this in a potential Money Laundering<\/a> or pay for play operation, would you be looking for information related to money going from son to father . Absolutely. Without a doubt. Thank you. Next slide. Is is fun. Isis from 2018. This is oufour months before joe biden launched his campaignfopresident of United States<\/a>, ceer 2018, the highlight is, a text message between m den and hunter. Hunter was really strung out, have lost money, needed help, jim said, this can work, you need a safe harbor, i can work with your father alone, it will probably take several months. If you saw a text message between the brother of the president and his son, wouldnt you be concerned about them trying to give plausible deniability for the president of United States<\/a> to not have any knowledge of said business dealings . It is worth investigating. I would agree, i would investigate. I yelled back. Before i do this, mr. Goldman, i will give you the opportunity and recognize you for your point of order. I just want to make sure that page 131 of the transcript of the devon archer interview is entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Thank you. Hunter biden is a private citizen and not a federal official, correct . Yes. A special counsel investigating hunter biden recently indicted him for various illegal acts. I have the indictment in my hand. Nowhere in the indictment of hunter biden is the allegation of joe biden having committed wrongdoing. That is correct. Not a parking ticket, not a moving violation, not a high crime or misdemeanor. On page 19 of your with a statement that you submitted you said, the Current Record<\/a> does not establish any crime, let alone unImpeachable Offense<\/a>. Lets further explore what has been established about joe biden. The hill said marco rubio said House Republicans<\/a> are discussing and appeasement corby to obtain evidence of criminal behavior they have not been able to dig up through the House Oversight<\/a> committee. He said that setting up a special impeachment counsel without strong evidence of a crime could trivialize the process. Senator rubio is a republican, right . Yes, sir. Lets talk about what this evident is and if it exists. Our colleague, a Senior Member<\/a> of the judiciary committee, said the following regarding evidence linking President Biden<\/a> to an alleged crime, that does not exist right now. Ken buck is republican, correct . Yes. Met romney said, there has not been in the allegation yet, any conduct which reaches the constitutional standard for impeachment. Mitt romney is a republican . Yes. Ms. Oconnor, i have a poster of an entry from your professional linkedin account. There is your picture, it says law office of eileen j. Oconnor. We printed what you posted one week ago which says the Biden Administration<\/a> is promoting and enabling the invasion, that is what your post says, right . Yes. It goes on to say, if this does not stop quickly, the entire usa will be invaded with millions of military age the men from many Different Countries<\/a> who are ready to cause total havoc while getting paid 2200 per month in welfare to do so. Did i write that . You reposted it. And said it was a engineer that spiral. May i respond . When i am done with my question demolition of United States<\/a> of america. Maam, another posting from your professional linkedin account and lc michigan telethon to raise money for 16 alternate electors. That is your professional account . It is. Mr. Turley, professor, in 2006, you wrote an oped in the guardian entitled, stop persecuting polygamists. You like and polygamists to persecuted minorities and you said polygamy is a practice with deep and goodfaith religious meaning. Represented the sister wives , a family in challenging a polygamy prosecution. The answer is yes. You have been crusading for legalizing polygamy for years and in an op ed in usa today, you set a utah polygamist named tom greene, convicted of pedophilia for raping his 13yearold stepdaughter should not have been charged with polygamy. Can i respond because that is not accurate . I criticized him, but i was dealing with was the constitutionality of what is called morals legislation, and i admit i am really libertarian, whether the government can pose a moral code on people. Mr. Chairman, mr. Chairman, we are counting down the hours until a Government Shutdown<\/a> and we have a hearing where we have one witness who defended a polygamist who is convicted of pedophilia and rape, and another witness linkedinwith accounts with extreme views posted. Unfortunately, this speaks to the credibility of the witnesses and the credibility of this impeachment inquiry. I yield back. Point of order. Mr. Chairman, when a member of the committee impugns the integrity of a witness, is against the rules to allow those to respond to malicious statements . I am asking i am not asking you, i am asking the chairman. Asking for a ruling. He can use his own time to question any witness he wants. I was recognized on a point of order. Point of order. The way we have always proceeded i asked for a ruling on my point of order. Mr. Chairman okay, the witness has the opportunity to address that during a line of questioning. If mr. Turley wants to address that during a number member line of questioning, he can do that. We are on the fiveminute clock. The chair recognizes ms. Mace. In 2013, mr. Raskin said , there is no formal constitutional or statutory, even house rule for help and impeachment inquiry is to begin. It means Different Things<\/a> to different people i dont want to hear another word from the left or on the other side of the aisle about impeachment inquiries, this is total hypocrisy this morning. Today, we will bring the facts, today, we will bring the evidence, in 2017, the joe biden family teamed up with Chinese Companies<\/a>, to make millions off of granting access to joe biden and hunter arrange for joe biden Share Office Space<\/a> with the company. My democrat colleagues say none of this is relevant because joe biden was not Vice President<\/a> Wallace Family<\/a> did that shady deals. Turns out, that is complete and total he referred access to his father as keys to the families only access, those words will come back and haunt hunter biden. And his family forever. Yesterday, the ways and Means Committee<\/a> sent a memo on the interview they had with a man, a former joe biden partner in crime, i will read a bit, the work conducted by the company, james biden, r the preceding two years was discusin mpany was closing significant investment deals in poland, extended, romania, and the middle east this time. The time is period of time is in reference to the years 2015 and 2016 when joe biden was Vice President<\/a> and as an aside rob walker in previous testimony confirmed that he had a meeting with the head of cefc and they were working with the biden family while he was Vice President<\/a> and i will continue reading from tonys report which says, hunter and james biden didnt receive compensation because he was still Vice President<\/a> during this time period. There is concern it would be improper for payments to be made to hunter biden and james biden by cefc due to its close affiliation with the chinese government. Hunter and james biden both wanted to be compensated for the assistance they provided to their ventures and, in particular, they believe cefc owed the money for the benefits that occurred through the use of the biden family name to advance their business dealings. The bidens, coincidentally were paid over 1 million by ccp affiliated, a chinese company, cefc, shortly after he left office as Vice President<\/a>. We now know why because it was back pay. I will show another image, a text message from hunter biden and an agent of cefc. Hunter says my uncle will be here with his brother and all caps and we would like to say hello to the chairman. He goes on, jims brother wants to say hello. His brother. I wonder who it can be. Hunter puts brother and all caps and it doesnt take a genius to figure this out, but since i am not always dealing with geniuses in washington dc that has been illustrated today, so i will spell it out. The brother of hunters uncle is joe biden. Why was hunter so secretive about his father . It is because joe biden didnt want the American People<\/a> to know that he and his family were getting paid millions and millions of dollars from a company closely tied to the Chinese Communist<\/a> party. Cefc knew that pain biden family members was bad, so they covered it up. Hunter knew that joe biden hanging out with Chinese Business<\/a>man would be a bad look so we tried to pull a genius move with this whole my uncles brother stuff so betraying your country is treason and mr. Chairman i asked to enter into the record this text message and the fbi memo regarding their interview with Tony Bobulinski<\/a> showing bidens connections during this Vice President<\/a> position. In your experience two people conducting legitimate business usually go through these efforts and hoops to keep their foreign entanglements hidden . Yes. The issue with influence peddling is it can in some circumstances be legal, but it isnt something that is necessarily made public and the public doesnt buy into the idea that you can sell your family brand if it is influence peddling. What happens with that is that you often have the commission of crimes to conceal it and to take steps so that it isnt public which may include, but not necessarily the reason, but may include, failure to pay taxes or register as a Foreign Agent<\/a> and part of the purpose of an inquiry is to see if there is a link between those and more importantly a link to the president. Can i briefly respond to the earlier attack and you may have questions. The gentlelady is overtime but we will work with you on that because i do think you need to respond to that ridiculous statement. The chair recognizes for five minutes. Mr. Turley, you testified in your written statement about best practices for the house and you say it isnt legally required for the house to vote or have an impeachment inquiry but it is the best practice this. Can you explain why it is a best practice to have that boat . Vote . The court said it isnt required so it isnt a condition for the initiation of an inquiry but it is a Good Practice<\/a>, whether it occurs after the initiation and still a vote of the entire house brings the solemnity and weight to this and it is one of the best practice this is i suggested in my testimony. What would it mean if the votes werent there . Hypothetically if they had a vote and 10 or 20 people voted for it and you are a student of constitutional history. What would that say . Why it is important in your view to have majority support for Something Like<\/a> this . I think the public expects members to take this process seriously. Part of that is to go on the record whether you believe it is grounds for an inquiry. In terms of the best practices, i think it gives the weight of the house to the effort. And i do criticize the move of Speaker Pelosi<\/a> it would give you pause if there was a vote that said the house didnt think there should be an inquiry . You would give that weight as a constitutional scholar . If the house as the body said there shouldnt be an inquiry, clearly, on the merits of the inquiry, it has some weight. It would be your recommendation to Speaker Mccarthy<\/a> today to bring up that boat, correct, for a house inquiry . I have always said it is a Good Practice<\/a>. In your recommendation to him today is bring the boat to the house floor . I always think it is a good idea. It would be her testimony based on what you said that if that vote failed, that should have some real consideration in whether we go forward with this . My view is they dont have the votes and i think it will be a lopsided vote against it. That is why they are not bringing it to the floor. I cant speak to that. You also said i dont believe the Current Evidence<\/a> would support articles of impeachment. I want to be careful because you said you think it supports an inquiry but not the articles of impeachment. I do want to be precise in what you said. Can you explain to the committee and country why you believe the Current Evidence<\/a> doesnt support the articles of impeachment today . At the moment, these are allegations. There is some credible evidence there that is the basis of the allegations. I understand that and not questioning that. You dont think, today if you are going to vote, if you were to vote, you would vote no . And if somebody said to you why are you voting not to impeach President Biden<\/a> based on this evidence, where do you think the evidence is lacking . Where does it not rise to the level where you think it needs to be . What are the things missing . I said in my testimony the key here that the committee has to drill down on is whether they can establish a linkage with the influence peddling which is a form of corruption and the present, whether he participated or encouraged it, we simply dont know and we dont even know if this was that are not and you cant find the answers. The back end of these financial transactions, which i have read is where the committee is going may shed light on that but without that type of nexus, then i dont. Nexus is not been established . I think that is the purpose of the inquiry, correct. Would you agree with the op ed in the Washington Post<\/a> where he basically would be a lopsided vote against it that that evidence doesnt exist . I did. I respect members of both parties that can stand alone and he has his reasons for that. I personally think the threshold for an inquiry has been surpassed and you do have a duty to imply risk to these allegations. That is not presupposing what you will find. It is your formal recommendation to the speaker to have a boat on the inquiry and also your testimony today that you would vote no on impeachment on the Current Evidence<\/a> . When Speaker Pelosi<\/a> took this step, gave the same advice. I think it is a best practice to go to the floor. The chairman recognizes ms. Mclane for five minutes. Before i start with my line of questioning, i want to make two comments. First, professor, i loved the analogy you used about the speeding ticket with hunter biden and let me see if you agree with this. If a criminal pulls the trigger for a murder he is guilty, right . And we can prove it. But dont you also agree with me that if somebody ordered that hit, we would charge him too . It is interesting you dont use that analogy. That is number one. It doesnt fit the narrative. Number two, i am amazed and i love the fact that trump lives rentfree in the democrats heads every day and that is a beautiful thing, even though we are here talking about the impeachment inquiry of joe biden. With that said, i want to talk about the damning evidence of joe bidens role in his familys business schemes in romania. While joe biden was president , he was directly involved in the United States<\/a> policy and anticorruption efforts in romania. That is a fact. On may 21 of 2014, then vice President Biden<\/a> delivered and anticorruption speech in romania. On september 28 of 2015, the president visited with the then vice President Biden<\/a> and the romanian president visited with the then vice President Biden<\/a> at the white house to discuss anticorruption efforts, right . We have a theme of corruption. Anticorruption. A corrupt romanian oligarch in the subject of a criminal probe and prosecution for corruption and bribery in romania and this committee has reviewed transactions showing that the biden family received money from a Foreign Company<\/a> run by this Russian Oligarch<\/a> gabriel popovich and five weeks after the romanian president visited with vice President Biden<\/a>, popovich began paying hunter biden and his associates, rob walker, through his company and the money is deposited directly into Robinson Walker<\/a> llc. And this is directly operated by hunters known and then the biden family account received more than 1 million from Robinson Walker<\/a>s account after these deposits were made. Ironically, 16 of the 17 payments occurred while joe biden was Vice President<\/a>. I think most americans would find it suspicious that, ironically, these payments ended shortly after joe biden left office and another coincidence. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record of the Oversight Committee<\/a> may 10, 2023 Second Bank Record Memorandum<\/a> showing his involvement in the familys business schemes in romania. Without objection, so ordered. I see three problems here while joe biden is touting these anticorruption efforts in romania, hunter biden is employed by a corrupt romanian oligarch which is interesting and in direct violation, hunter biden meets with the United States<\/a> ambassador to romania while being paid by gabriel popovich. What was hunter biden selling to the romanian oligarchs for millions of dollars . I would still like to see a contract of that. Professor turley, i know i am almost out of time, you previously said hunter biden could be charged under the Foreign Agent<\/a> registration act and can you explain why . Piece please feel free to ask the question. Most of the conduct described in these disclosures does seem to fit with what we saw in the charges of Paul Manafort<\/a> in terms of being a Foreign Agent<\/a> and some of this appears to be that type of lobbying on the part of hunter biden and the failure to register as an agent would conceal that but thats not the motivation behind it. The question is should he have registered as a Foreign Agent<\/a> during the course of misconduct and it seems to be looking at the Paul Manafort<\/a> indictment that there is considerable overlap in terms of the type of action taken. Perhaps it is a twotiered justice system. May ask unanimous consent to enter the chart into the record . So ordered. Five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I didnt plan to but i would like to follow up on the gentlewomans comments and assertions about romania and hunter biden and the fact that he worked for a romanian executive facing corruption charges. Problem with that is that Rudy Giuliani<\/a> also worked for that person and a former fbi director and i want to ask unanimous consent that a New York Times<\/a> piece entitled giuliani is trying attentions to Hunter Bidens<\/a> work and remain yet but there is a problem be entered into the record. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Chairman, i want to go back to this theory because it seems to me that is what has triggered all of this and we are sitting here now wasting precious time while the country is about to shut down and all found its genesis with Rudy Giuliani<\/a> that we ought to have Rudy Giuliani<\/a> here. I know there was a motion made earlier and i would like to aggregate that motion without mentioning the other persons name and offer a motion again that Rudy Giuliani<\/a> be required to come before this committee. Is there a second . And, mr. Chairman, i would like to ask that the clock be paused while pause the clock. Motion to table. Motion to table and is there a second . A second by ms. Fox. I guess we will have a vote on the motion to table his motion. This is about giuliani, right . All of those in favor and all of those opposed. The opinion of the chair the motion has i request a recorded vote, mr. Chairman. Will the clerk please get ready to have a recorded vote and another motion by the minority party. There is a motion for a temporary recess. Is there a second . Motion seconded. There is already a motion on the floor. There is a motion, and it is mine. Will the clerk please report . Call the roll. To be clear this is not a motion to table but motion of unanimous consent to call Rudy Giuliani<\/a> as a witness for the Oversight Committee<\/a>. Is that right . That is correct. Mr. Jordan and mr. Jordan votes aye. Mr. Turner. Mr. Ghosts are, ms. Fox. Ms. Fox votes aye. Mr. Grossman. Mr. Grossman votes aye. Mr. Palmer. Mr. Palmer votes aye. Mr. Higgins. Mr. Higgins votes aye. Mr. Session. Mr. Sessions votes aye. Mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs votes aye. Ms. Mace. This is a motion to table the motion to subpoena Rudy Giuliani<\/a>. It doesnt seem to have a lot to do with this. Ms. Mace votes aye. Mr. Le turner votes aye. Mr. Fallon. Mr. Donalds. Mr. Armstrong. Mr. Armstrong votes yes. Mr. Perry. Mr. Timmons. Mr. Burchard. Ms. Green. Ms. Mclean. Ms. Mclean votes i. Mr. Fry. Mr. Fry votes aye. Mr. Edwards. Mr. Edwards votes aye. Mr. Langworthy. Esther burlison . Mr. Burlison votes aye. Mr. Raskin. No. Mr. Raskin votes no. Ms. Norton votes no. Mr. Lynch votes no. Mr. Connolly. Mr. , . Mr. Mfume. He votes no. Ms. Oconnor feel cortez. She votes nate. Ms. Porter votes no. Ms. Bush. Mr. Gomez . Mr. Gomez votes no ms. Stansberry. Ms. Stansberry both no. Mr. Garcia. Mr. Garcia votes no. Mr. Frost. Mr. Frost votes no. Ms. Lee votes no. Mr. Kosar votes no. Ms. Crockett. Ms. Crockett votes no. Mr. Goldman. Mr. Moscowitz. Mr. Moscowitz both no. Ms. Tlaib votes no. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman votes aye. Mr. Fallon is not yet recorded. Aye. That was mr. Langworthy of new york recorded. Mr. Fallon votes i. Mr. Langworthy votes aye. Mr. Timmons is not yet recorded. Mr. Timmons votes aye. Mr. Kosar is not recorded. Mr. Kosar votes i eye. Mr. Connolly votes no. Not yet recorded for krishnamoorthi. Mr. Krishnamoorthi votes no. How was mr. Armstrong recorded . Mr. Armstrong is loaded aye. Mr. Chairman, however my recorded . Ms. Mace is reported as a voting aye. Mr. Donalds is not yet recorded. Mr. Donalds votes yes. Have i been recorded, madam clerk . It is mr. Raskin. Mr. Raskin, you are reported as voting no. Mr. Gomez, you are recorded as voted no. How on my recorded. Ms. Cortez is reported as voting no. Ms. Brown is not yet recorded. Ms. Brown votes no. Will the clerk please tally the votes. Mr. Chairman, the aye is 20 and no is 18. I do reclaim my time and i asked my question where in the world is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and that is how we got here, ladies and gentlemen. This committee is afraid to bring him before us and put him on the record. Shame. The question was raised what does this have to do with it . It has everything to do with it. And professor, in your testimony you said in every impeachment inquiry, before hand, the house has identified some credible evidence of wrongdoing committed by targeted president and is that correct . Yes, sir. Our impeachment impeachment inquirys utilized as a frontline tool to go fishing or for the first time seeking evidence . No, sir. Would you say House Republicans<\/a> have made an unprecedented overreach of congressional power . It strikes me that it is. Mr. Gerhardt, would you say it is fair to assume that the extreme maga republicans in particular have misused if not abused Committee Resources<\/a> and taxpayer dollars in this prolonged investigation that has gone on for almost a year subpoenaing documents and having hearings and providing boxes of evidence and no wrongdoing . I am not sure who the maga republicans are. I can point them out to you. Mr. Chairman, i would ask that the gentlemen please point out the republicans he is referring to. He said he could. I am reclaiming my time. Ladies and gentlemen, this clock is showing what is happening to our country while we did the over and over and over again, not any wrongdoing by President Biden<\/a>, but trying to link what his son may or may not have done to him. People will see her when time runs out and this is not the wizard of oz when all of a sudden she turns over the hourglass when the wicked witch is standing here. These are children and women and military officers and soldiers and civilians and these are Law Enforcement<\/a> officers. These are Senior Citizens<\/a> looking for paychecks for Social Security<\/a> and why are we playing this game . Why dont we be honest. If it were so important it could wait and this is what is important, protecting the government. And protecting the people who pay taxes here. But we want to play games with all of this. So where is Rudy Giuliani<\/a> right now . I would like to know. I would like to know why we cant bring him before this Committee Like<\/a> we brought these witnesses and everybody else. I yield back my time to the Ranking Member<\/a>. I want to thank the distinguished gentleman from baltimore for his passionate and lucid comments and i appreciate the fact that you introduced a motion to subpoena Rudy Giuliani<\/a> before and he wrote us a long letter saying all of this is based on an issue of fraud and he went all over the world with Rudy Giuliani<\/a> is he alleging it is a fraud . Are you asking me to yield . I am happy to yield for a second. What is your question . What fraud i introduced the letter that was written to you and me and in it he called upon me to call off this wild goose chase. Because all of this is based on the burisma conspiracy. Somebody can yield and that is doctor fox from North Carolina<\/a> for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This is very Serious Business<\/a>. I think at the end, it would be proven to the American People<\/a> that this is Serious Business<\/a> and we need to get on with it and need to have the other side stop playing games. Ms. Oconnor, in a column published by the wall street journal, you say it is the typical timidity of irs tax lawyers in recommending prosecution is Common Knowledge<\/a> in the tax Enforcement Community<\/a> and can you explain where this comes from . I dont know the source of it and thank you for the question. But it is Common Knowledge<\/a> and the tax division is required to authorize any criminal tax charges that will be brought in order to inform itself and the special agent report is provided to the tax division before its too that, irs criminal tax attorneys review it and and i am sorry because i am having trouble answering this. Let me give you some more guidance. There were charges for irs criminal charges provides reviews in a report . Right. They are advisory only and the irs as any prosecutors is determined to have a High Conviction<\/a> rate and they want to be careful that if they bring a case they will bring it. Can you describe a typical special agent report and specific to hunter biden . Certainly. The whistleblowers have testified in 1000 pages were provided to the tax division and that special agent report consisted not only of a discussion of what they had discovered but also every bit of evidence that they found that supported each element of each crime for each year for which they were recommending charges. Let me follow up again. More than a year after the Doj Tax Division<\/a> receive this report, the division created a 99 page memorandum supporting the recommended charges. Is that correct . I may be wrong about how long it took the tax division and i heard it was a much shorter period of time. But they did do that . I understand they produced a 99 page memo authorizing the charges the special agents recommended. Thank you. You said the tax division recommended ask felonies and five misdemeanors . Correct. Hunter biden was only initially charged with two counts of willful failure to pay federal income tax as part of the plea deal, correct . Right. And these are misdemeanors. Right. The maximum penalty is a fine of 25,000 as well as up to a year in federal prison . Or both. Or both. Yet hunter biden owes more than 100,000 in both 2017 and 2018 . That is what the criminal information alleged and i think that is a ballpark figure. Based on the answers you provided, it is extremely difficult to believe that an individual who is not the son of the sitting u. S. President would be treated this way and we are told the department of justice treats all citizens equally under the law, but based on the evidence, this committee has presented, that is not what is happening in delaware. Based on your experience, would you agree that that is not what happened in delaware . Exactly. It was particularly telling because in the next state in new jersey a mechanic was being sentenced for two years for not having paid 100,000 in taxes. So in this case there was not equal justice under the law being proposed . Absolutely not. Totally unequal justice and that is not what this country stands for. We want everybody being treated the same under the law. My colleagues should feel the same way. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and i yield back. We recognize ms. Ocasio ortez and consent to enter into the record a letter that mr. Raskin refers to which is a press release from the Us Attorneys Office<\/a> in the Southern District<\/a> of new york and it is saying sentenced to 20 in prison for false statements and wire fraud so ordered. The chair recognizes ms. Ocasioortez. It has been repeated and i would like to repeat that the allegations being presented by the majority are extremely serious. The prospect of impeachment is a gravely serious matter which has been echoed by the witnesses today. And any serious impeachment investigation or inquiry relies on firsthand sworn testimony of witnesses to high crime and misdemeanors. And they have called and three witnesses to advance their case. Mr. Turley, i have a simple question for you. In your testimony today, are you presenting any firsthand witness accounts of crimes committed by the president of the United States<\/a> . I am not. Ms. Oconnor, you are the second republican witness here today. Have you and your testimony presented any firsthand witness accounts of crimes committed by the president of the United States<\/a> . I have not. Thank you. Have you and your testimony, mr. Dubinsky, presented any firsthand witness account of crimes by the president . I have not. Professor i assume you are not a factor in this. Correct. Is clarified, two individuals presented today who have firsthand accounts surrounding the progeny that the allegations are being blocked from testifying by republican majority and i want to explain why this is important. Members of congress, all of us in this hearing are not under oath and we are presently covered by the speech and debate clause . Correct . That is correct. It covers all statements by a member of congress whether they are factual or not. There are only four people in this room that are present we under oath in their testimony and those are the witnesses here today. Correct . Correct. Direct testimony of the four individual witnesses here today are the bona fide words that this committee must use in order to proceed or substantiate an investigation. I want to emphasize why that is important. Earlier today, one of our colleagues, a gentleman from florida, presented on the screen something that appeared to be a screenshot of a text message containing or insinuating an explicit allegation. That screenshot of what appeared to be a text message was a fabricated image. It was fabricated and i dont know where it came from and i dont know if it was the committee but it wasnt the actual direct screenshot from that phone. In fact, i would like to submit to the committee the actual full context from the affidavit of ziegler of the full text of that exchange. Do i have permission from the chair . Importantly what was brought out from that fabricated image excluded critical context that change the underlying meaning and allegation that was presented up on that screen by this committee and by members of this committee. They are well within their rights to do that. Because they are covered by the speech and debate clause. This is not submitted by a material witness under oath and that wasnt submitted by material or fact witness under oath. The impeachment inquiry, regardless of party is an extremely serious matter. Professor, in the impeachment inquiry into president clinton, where there witnesses represented during those proceedings . None in the house. In the senate . There were. There were. In the impeachment investigations with respect to President Trump<\/a>, where there key material fact witnesses in the house . There were. Are there any key material fact witnesses here today . No. None. So we are wasting our time and when we talk about a threshold of impeachment inquiry, was very house floor vote that had a majority of members of congress that opened an impeachment inquiry into president clinton . There was. Was there a full house floor vote opening inquiry into President Trump<\/a> . In 2019. Is there one for this one . There is not one here for this one. There is not one for this one. This is an embarrassment for the time and people of this country and i asked the chair and this committee elevate to the promise of our duties here and comport ourselves with the consistency and practice required of our duty and our oath to our responsibilities here. With that i yield back. Five minutes from wisconsin. I am concerned about the seriousness of these allegations and what bothers me a little is that i am beginning to think americans are beginning to think this behavior by the biden family is normal. I am afraid theyre going to say that President Biden<\/a> is a politician and they will look at this in regards to senator menendez in the last few weeks and i want to say this is how it worked. I dont think this is how it works and i think there is this corruption that appears to be all sorts of smoke. And almost a historic low for our country and it deserves a strong response. And you can see senator menendez and the latest indictment and there is no tolerance for putting yourselves before constituents unless your last name is biden. I do applaud my democratic colleagues and we know how that ends and there is Political Risk<\/a> but here we are talking about the presidency. If the response is hunter biden was an elected politician, i have to know what was hunter biden selling and we cant become numb to these facts and these allegations are extraordinary. In fact we have a sitting president accused of bribery and taking payments, whether it be directly or through his family. These are not empty allegations. And look at what is coming in just the past few days. Is President Biden<\/a> compromised . It is relevant because of the interaction between our country and ukraine and the interaction between our country and siam in the facts demand we continue to investigate. And i want you to discuss how historic this is what you think is the most concerning piece of evidence that you heard of today . The most concerning, obviously, at the start with the bribery allegation that was the subject of the 1023 and i say in the testimony that you have to take that so far and you have a lot of information to second that account but when you put it into the context of the labyrinth to transfer money and you have the statements of hunter biden, that is what makes us a credible inquiry. And the question is did the president and know and encourage this type of corruption. The key and what i stress in the testimony is you have to begin with a Record Mission<\/a> that what they were doing was corrupt and that is what influence peddling is, a form of corruption and our country globally has combated. The only question for an inquiry is whether that body of corruption, which it is, also encompassed the actions or the knowledge of the president of the United States<\/a>. The only way you will be able to get that information is to follow the evidence. What i suggest is that you do so without any prejudice and you do so without any assumption and i hope that the president will be able to show that there is no such thing but you wont get those answers until you ask these questions. We are really obligated to have this. I believe it is your duty to determine if the president is involved in what is a known form of corruption and that is what i believed has already been described and many people have accepted this was influence peddling in its raw form. Could you elaborate for us the impact that bribery can have on the institution of their duties . And what if it were the president. Can you explain why the American Public<\/a> ought to care about this . Alexander hamilton talked about impeachment as the violation of the public trust and that is really what this ultimately goes to. I am hoping there is not much disagreement that public corruption falls within and Impeachable Offense<\/a>, because if it doesnt, then it makes a mockery of what the framers were talking about. During the clinton impeachment, michael and i testified and there was a lot of, i think, good faith discussion between us and the other experts as to the executive function theory and what constitutes Impeachable Offense<\/a>. I would hope it would be agreed that if a nexus was established with the president that he participated in the corruption of influence peddling and it would be a potential Impeachable Offense<\/a>, or it would be a debate. We have millions of dollars pouring into the biden family and that is proven overwhelmingly. Are you aware of any precedents in this country where there has been any case of bribery and corruption of a public official or other president of this magnitude . Is there any historical precedent in this country . The gentlemans time has expired. Please answer. The assumption is as the Ranking Member<\/a> has said, the degree to which all of this money went to the biden family members, that has to be as the Ranking Member<\/a> said established. But in terms of the figures, i have been a critic of influence peddling by republicans and democrats. This is the favorite form of corruption in washington dc and the city is awash with it. Have i seen anything of this size and complexity . No. As an observer . No. But we still need to know the scope of this and whether all of these financial transfers link the president to any regard and i wont assume it does. The chair recognizes a consent motion to introduce the october 2020 article in politico we are the source of the fd 1023 that he just referenced stated that neither he nor anyone else from burisma with President Biden<\/a> or anyone working with them during his engagement. Without objection so ordered. Ms. Brown for five minutes. While we sit here, just two days away from a complete government shut down, House Republicans<\/a> want to distract the American Public<\/a> from their funding failure with a baseless impeachment inquiry lacking facts and foundation. This preventable shutdown threatens the livelihood of millions of federal workers, Small Business<\/a> owners, seniors, and veterans. All of whom live in the district of every member of this committee. In my home state of ohio, there were 60,000 federal workers who will be furloughed or forced to work without pay. I cant overstate the impact this republican shut down will have on mothers and babies receiving wic. In ohio, there are 180,000 women and children and infants whose benefits will be at risk and in case that statistic is not sinking in, let me paint a picture. A new mother is trying to bite formula at the store next week to discover that she has no benefits to access and she cant pay. If Speaker Mccarthy<\/a> and our republican colleagues continue to value their egos over the wellbeing of american families, stories like this will become a terrifying reality for millions. Yet House Republicans<\/a> continue to prioritize Political Warfare<\/a> over peoples welfare. The speaker seems committed to promoting political gains and protecting peoples benefits over protecting peoples benefits and americans in our economy are being held hostage to the demands of the most extreme members of his party. It is clear that Speaker Mccarthy<\/a> has once again handed control of the peoples house through maga extremists. Rather than work with democrats to get us out of the mess they created, republicans are tripping over themselves trying to distract and deflect the American People<\/a> will with this shameful show. The department of justice and the fbi under former President Trump<\/a> spent five, five long years, looking at conspiracy theories and debunked them repeatedly. So now, in a vain attempt to reflect or deflect from the confusion there causing, House Republicans<\/a> want to dig this up once again. So, professor gearhart, what would you say is the primary flaw in the House Republicans<\/a> claims against President Biden<\/a> . I suppose i could say a lot. The dots are not connected and the name repeated most often in this hearing is hunter biden, not President Biden<\/a>. The point of an impeachment inquiry isnt about a president s son. It has to be about the president himself. I dont think those dots have been connected and there have been a lot of consumptions assumptions but not evidence. These falsehoods about President Biden<\/a> didnt change the will of the people in november 2020, yet my colleagues on the other side of the house are at it again, holding another hearing on baseless allegations looking for facts that dont exist. And instead of fulfilling our duty to govern, our colleagues threaten our shutdown in our most vulnerable communities. With that, i yield my time to Ranking Member<\/a>. I would urge you to yield to mr. Goldman. I will yield to mr. Goldman. I think my colleague. I believe you said the tax memo gave the charges . That is what was reported. The whistleblowers reported it was a discretion finding. And since he worked in the tax division, i am sure you understand that there is full authorization and there is discretion and declination. When they give a discretion determination, that is because there are serious holes and flaws. And they leave it to the discretion of the u. S. Attorney whether or not they want to charge it, correct . Not at all. Not based on that but the ability of that district to prosecute that case. In fact, that several times in the testimony and only one time did mention discretion and all of the other times it didnt mention it at all. Share recognizes mr. Palmer for five minutes. Thank you. I am very disturbed about what i heard today. There is a saying among country lawyers that if you have the facts you found facts and if you dont have the facts you found the table and when you cant pound the table i guess they choose to pound the witnesses and that was inexcusable. What happened in this committee is attacking the witnesses personally instead of addressing the merits of the evidence presented and that indicates to me that my democratic colleagues know the evidence is becoming increasingly conclusive and it reminds me of a line from a few good men, you cant handle the truth. The evidence will either convict or acquit in any criminal proceeding or civil proceeding and if there is no wrongdoing, the evidence or lack of evidence will support that conclusion. The problem of the suspicion of wrongdoing is compounded by the withholding of evidence and the misrepresentation of the evidence at hand and the instruction of an investigation but not denying access to information that would be or could be evidence. At this point, there is a growing Public Perception<\/a> and it is reflected in the polls that President Biden<\/a> and other family members and Business Associates<\/a> were engaged in some form of criminal activity. It is the responsibility of this committee to pursue the truth and report it to the American People<\/a>. I am not sure that is what is happening on the other side with my colleagues. It is vitally important that our efforts be conducted openly, without prejudice, with no other agenda other than arriving at the truth, regardless of our politics. It is vitally important. And as professor turley has pointed out, you dont undertake an impeachment inquiry lightly. This has implications for the future of this country and the ability to govern ourselves. We have seen repeatedly obstructive efforts and obstruction efforts to deny this Committee Access<\/a> to information that is material to this investigation. I asked professor turley a question. In your view, could the promise of foreign access to any official or Government Official<\/a> weather it is the Vice President<\/a> or anybody else, that only materially benefited a family member, could that be influence peddling . Yes. As i point out in the testimony, courts have found that various benefits to family members can be attributed to the benefit of a principal which included everything from throwing a golf contest in favor of a son of a politician to paying for gifts and in fact i was lead counsel in the last impeachment trial for a judge and that was the trial in the u. S. Senate and my client was accused, among other things, of benefits going to his family. There certainly is precedent, not only in criminal cases but it impeachment cases for making that. I will be more specific. If vice President Biden<\/a> used his office to influence Foreign Policy<\/a> for the financial benefit of his son, even though vice President Biden<\/a> may never have received a dime, then it resulted in millions of dollars going to his son or his brother or other family members or Business Associates<\/a>, and he used his office to influence either domestic or Foreign Policy<\/a>, for their benefit, could that be a violation of the public trust . Absolutely. In fact, it is perhaps the most quintessential violation of the public trust because you are not acting in the publics interest but a form of public corruption that this government, this country has declared it is corrupt and other countries around the world. And i dont want to jump on your time but i would like to respond to the attack you mentioned. You may do so. I would like to explain what that attack dealt with and if nothing else for members of the committee but for my three children here who may be surprised by what they just heard. As they know, i have spent my life challenging what is called morals legislation but the democratic member attacked me for. And how they should use their lives and some of those laws have been used against and lesbian couples and used against minorities and the individual that the member described , i condemned. I represented the sister wives in a case challenging that law on the basis of individual right and the trial court ruled in our favor and struck down that law the first time it had ever been struck down and the 10th circuit dismissed on technical grounds. That i will end with one other thing. That is, it isnt going to make a difference. This has become a pattern of witnesses and whistleblowers and fbi agents, journalists being attacked in congress and it wont make any difference or change the constitutional standard and it wont negate any evidence that you have, but at some point, you have to say, enough. We have to have the public has to have something in congress to look to to have faith. I have to tell you that it is not that i think the absurd attack meant any difference to my children or the people watching. It does make a difference to the process. Witnesses mr. Chairman, i hate to interrupt, but could our witness get equal time because we are a minute over. The time has expired and he responded to the false allegations. I apologize for how you have been treated and i apologize to the American People<\/a> watching this hearing and i think people in america care about public corruption and the title of this hearing is an impeachment inquiry. I think that mr. Turley has done a good job explaining the basis for why we need to take the impeachment inquiry and go forward. We have led this investigation. And now we need the inquiry status as we move forward to get the information that we have been obstructed by this administration and by this family. That is what the purpose of this hearing is, dont create another false narrative and with that the chair recognizes mr. Gomez from california. Ms. Stansbury from new mexico. Mr. Gomez was next. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i want to say thank you to mr. Trump for calling this hearing today. As it demonstrates, the house gop and donald trump continued attacks on our institutions and on our democracy and the house gop and their complete inability to govern in a serious manner. As they hold this hearing and we see two days before a potential devastating Government Shutdown<\/a> and the fact that most republican members of this committee didnt even bother to show up for the hearing this morning. And their own witness said right here in this committee, this morning, that he doesnt even believe there is enough evidence to meet these standards needed for impeachment. And in doing this, our colleagues across the aisle are making a mockery of this institution. And of our constitution, peddling conspiracy theories and peddling the conspiracy theories that Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and donald trump themselves tried to get the American People<\/a> to believe, and which to show up for the hearing this morning. Their own star witness said, right here in this committee, this morning, that he doesnt even believe that there is enough evidence to meet the standards needed for impeachment. In doing this, our colleagues across the aisle are making a mockery of this institution and of our constitution. Pedaling conspiracy theories, that Rudy Giuliani<\/a> and donald trump themselves tried to get the American People<\/a> to believe. Donald trumps doj debunked it. It is outrageous. So lets be clear about what this hearing actually is its an effort to undermine our democracy. To diminish Donald Trumps<\/a> own two impeachments. His first impeachment, for trying to illegally bribe a Foreign Government<\/a> to help him with his campaign. The second, a deadly insurrection in the halls of this capitol after he asked his followers to tear through the halls of congress, which they did with zip ties, looking to execute the former Vice President<\/a>. We know that donald trump has called for this impeachment and curry, because we have the direct evidence from his own social. You can see it right here. He says, impeach. We also know that hes been directly coordinating with members of this committee as reported by the New York Times<\/a> feared right here, a member of this committee has been briefing donald trump on this inquiry. We also know that if donald trump does not get his way, he wants his loyalists to shut down the government. How do we know that . Because he posted it, right here on his social media. And his loyalists in this committee, who are doing his bidding for him today, retweeted it. In fact, it actually says right here, the reason they want to defund the government and impeach, because this is the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me. Folks, this is not a serious inquiry. This is not a serious hearing. In fact, the witnesses here dont even believe there is enough evidence to impeach. Their own members dont even believe there is enough evidence to impeach. In fact, they refused to hold a vote on the floor of the house of representatives, because they did not have enough republican members who would vote for. That is why we are here today. Its outrageous. So what is this hearing actually about . Its a campaign strategy. Its a misuse of official resources. It is this committee and loyalists of donald trump, doing his bidding, to bolster his chances of winning back the white house in securing their majority in the next election. In the process, to diminish the name of impeachment. It is enshrined in the u. S. Constitution, which we take an oath to uphold. And to make Donald Trumps<\/a> crimes, including his two impeachments, and has 91 criminal indictment counts, look like they are not serious crimes. When you think about it, it is chilling. It is truly chilling. Its another attack on our democracy and our institutions. Its another attack on fair and free elections. The use of this committee to try to carry it out. I just want to say, i think it is obvious who the grand puppet master is here. He tweeted about it on his own social. We see the long arm, but, little hands, of mr. Donald trump, whose fingerprints are all over this hearing and this sham impeachment. We know that the American People<\/a> are smart, they will not be fooled by what is happening here today. Especially, as they shut the government down in two days with catastrophic impacts for our communities. With that, i yield back. The chair will recognize mr. Higgins, from louisiana, for five minutes. We will be moving quickly. Let us retract from 21st century twitter. Lets go back to 1787, article 2, section 4. President , Vice President<\/a> , all civil officers of the United States<\/a> should be removed for conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. High crimes and misdemeanors is not and has never been limited to a criminal. Professor, please tell us briefly, what was the actual meaning in 1787 of high crimes and misdemeanors . This has been robustly paid for for many decades. We do know that there were various terms that were offered and reject it. The most famous being, mallet administration. James madison, was uncomfortable with that. They also were uncomfortable to limited to treason and bribery. It was never designed to be limited by statute, was it . Would madison argue that betrayal of trust a foreign powers is an Impeachable Offense<\/a> . There are references to that type of betrayal of trust. If you take a look at past impeachments, they have gone to the violation of public trust, including, the use of office to perpetuate false accounts or to obstruct this body. Agreed. So impeachment is a mechanism of our congressional authorities. It is not a criminal proceeding, is it . It is not. What i said previously, i happen to believe you should start with the criminal code, and look at things that would be crimes for others. Those resonate the most. Those criminal Code Violations<\/a> would be revealed to the investigative effort of the congressional endeavor to inquire into Impeachable Offense<\/a>s, like this . Would you agree . Moving quickly, one of the gentlemen said, there is no credibility to this evidence. Let me say as an investigator, no category of inquiries is more credible than bank records. There have been highly. There is nothing more credible in an investigative effort than bank records. Im going to read from an email from assistant United States<\/a> attorney wolf, released by the house, yesterday. 202 of the irs whistleblower investigation. Miss wolf prohibited in to look into figure 1. During that investigation, political figure 1 was agreed upon by the investigative team. The fbi, doj, irs, investigators. Figure 1 is not a synonym for republicans or democrats. Political figure 1 is, President Biden<\/a>. Joe biden. Leslie wolf, as a priority, someone needs to redraft attachment b. There should be nothing about political figure 1 in here. This is a response to an email delivered by joshua wilson, an fbi agent, please see attached draft for blue star search warrant. The strategies is a longtime lobbying firm that hunter biden used to put pressure on Government Official<\/a>s to end the investigation. The department of justice was investigating blue star for these activities and allowed to retroactively register as a Foreign Agent<\/a>. Today, no one has been held accountable at blue star. That happened during 2020. Months before your president ial election, america. You should be very concerned about this. Mr. Turley, based upon the constitutional parameters, the house of representatives, do you agree that the Oversight Committee<\/a>, judiciary committee, ways and Means Committee<\/a>, should be investigating reasonable suspicion of impenetrable actions of joe biden . I do. I think it is your duty to get answers to these questions for you to see if the president was involved. I think it was confirmed corrupt influence peddling effort. Thank you, mr. Chairman. My time is expired. I yield. I want to begin by recapping for the American People<\/a> what we have seen so far today. I democratic colleagues have done a great job of showing there is absolutely zero evidence linking joe biden to any wrongdoing. Zero. None. This hearing is a complete waste of time two days before a Government Shutdown<\/a>. Hunter biden never held Public Office<\/a>. There is no evidence he ever includes policy in the white house. There is no evidence that he and his fathers finances were ever linked. We spoke to many witnesses to prove that. None of the witnesses here show direct evidence of any wrongdoing. That was repeated here by these witnesses. Instead, we are back to following two maga conspiracy theories. This is about how House Republicans<\/a> are trying to reelect their beloved leader, donald trump. What i want to know, why are we not actually investigating real family corruption . They want to attack resident bidens family, who actually never worked in the white house. Its incredibly hypocritical. We have yet talked about these guys. Who actually worked in the white house. I want to talk about, Jared Kushner<\/a>, hes right over here. We know that he is donald trump soninlaw, he was given an enormous power in the white house. When he joined the white house, he was so unfit and unqualified, its only conflicts of interest, he could not even get a security clearance. His father in law, donald trump, could have intervened to override security. Just months after jared left the white house, the saudi royal family gave him 2 billion into a hedge fund. Right now hes pocketed an additional 25 million a year in fees. He was put at the head of the lease policy in the white house. He personally intervened to give the saudis 110 billion arms deal, that was opposed by folks all across the government. He supported the saudis with their brutal war in yemen. Even after the murder of the american journalist. The crown prince bragged that kushner was in his pocket. Jared delivered for the saudis, over and over again and he was rewarded. Advisors of the crown prince had advised against the 2 billion hedge fund investment. He went forward anyways. We know that Jared Kushner<\/a>, a senior white house aide, donald trump soninlaw, was doing favors for a Foreign Government<\/a>. This is actually an enormous family scandal that this committee should be investigating. I think that Chris Christie<\/a> put it well when he said, the greatest from this family, the trump crime family, is breathtaking. This is actually what our Committee Chairman<\/a> said about the questioners. Im just quoting our chairman. I have been vocal, that i think what kushner did crossed the line of ethics. I agree that kushner crossed the line of ethics. I want to know what we are going to do about it . If we are not too busy next week during the republican maga shutdown, we can have a hearing with Jared Kushner<\/a>. Clearly was in a very corrupt arm still around his investment firm. The chairman can be involved in that since he thinks there are problems we know today we are not here because of any wrongdoing of President Biden<\/a>. Its all part of president thanks trumps campaign. Members of this committee are retaliating. Some members have been trying to impeach the president since day one. This is a tweet here that i will read. Two years ago, and introduce articles to impeach joe biden on his first full day of office. We will impeach biden in bold with an expiration. There is no reason why, they dont care why . Theyve been trying to do it now for years. Here you have a member of the Oversight Committee<\/a> posting about introducing articles of impeachment on President Biden<\/a>s very first day in office. Now the speaker of the house is empowering these people in a dumpster attempt to keep a separate the person pulling the strings is donald trump. The dangerous man facing federal indictments who is out for revenge. Hes been doing this his whole career. I want to show you a second tweet by a member of this committee. They are trying to expunge Donald Trumps<\/a> impeachments, as you can see here. It is also unconstitutional. I will read this tree. Expunge the wrongful trump impeachments. Impeach criminal biden. These are political stunts to appeal to an extremist base. And to seize control of this conference. If we dont act, they will threaten our democracy again. This impeachment is a farce with no evidence. I will yield back. I would like to add that Jared Kushner<\/a> was a key player in the historic alyssa is this a point of order . Excuse me. I recognize from texas for five minutes. Thank you. You have been asked the question earlier that i heard a quick reply to. The answer to the question was about the timing of a Government Shutdown<\/a> and a impeachment. You quickly responded, never. You want to revise or extend that remark about the timing of a Government Shutdown<\/a> and a impeachment occurring at the same time . You said, never. I understand the question. If youre talking about 2019, there was not a shutdown. There was not. There is not now. There is not now. The people on this side are simply taking advantage of your answer. In fact, the indictment, the impeachment donald trump was december 18 2019. The president signed the funding of the government december 21st, 2019. Three days later. The question you were asked, perhaps you responded to correctly, never. In fact, there is a nexus that suggests that people on this side of the dais are taking it the wrong way. Second, mr. Chairman, i also find that some of our members are talking about baseless accusations of a Government Shutdown<\/a>. All you have to do is google, ohio, to apply it which the supposition brought up. It can be gathered in all 88 ohio counties. It is run by the state of ohio, not the federal government. I think that we need to be careful when we make accusations here. Thank you. Miss oconnor, you have a history of understanding Tax Implications<\/a> inside the department of justice. These are serious matters. Do you yield to the gentleman . I will not. The implications of this endeavor that we are attempting to understand, is Decision Making<\/a> inside the department of justice. Inside the decisionmaking, we have already heard back a number of times how the department of justice did not move forward in compliance, i believe, to make a determination whether the facts would or should be taken further . With president clinton, the fbi went and actually interviewed the president , and the Vice President<\/a> , about these matters, and other people in the white house. President clinton lost his law license over that and ended up that there was an impeachment. Can you please talk about what should be done from normal and regular department of justice officials to see whether this has occurred, and whether we are entitled to ask questions about that investigation from the fbi and the doj . Thank you, mr. Sessions. I think you are more than entitled. I think youre obligated to look into the allegations that the whistleblowers have brought. The whistleblowers were very detailed in the investigative steps that they took. Those that they wanted to take, but were prevented for taking, but would have taken in any other investigation, we do not have a window into where the roadblock was thrown. We do not know who through it. Would you think it would be proper for this committee to bring those individuals into properly vet them about that . Or, is that the duty of the doj through the federal bureau of investigation to get that done . I think it is your obligation. We know that the whistleblowers tried to remedy the obstruction from within the Internal Revenue<\/a> service and got no backup at all. They were left out to dry. Does that include asking for metadata which wouldve supported any other investigation like this . Absolutely. The message were hunter biden saying that he was sitting next to his father and in the process of shaking down Chinese Business<\/a>men. The agents wanted to find out if that was a true statement and they couldve find out, but they were denied. By what authority . We do not know exactly . We just know from the testimony that they would request search warrants. Mr. Chairman, let the record reflect this is an inquiry for us to make a determination. Absolutely. Without objection to order. Also the articles i previously divided to this committee and testimony. I would like to offer a press release from the same Southern District<\/a> of new york that you introduced that is entitled, devon archer, sentence to a year and a day in prison for the fraudulent sale of more than 60 million of bonds. Hunter bidens Business Partner<\/a> and best friend . Yes. Your star witness. The chair recognizes mr. Gomez. Five minutes. Thank you, so much, mr. Chairman. One of the things i want to stress, from the beginning of this congress, the republicans had one thing in mind. Lets get, joe biden. Lets get, joe biden, and lets find the evidence that showed he did something wrong. When the evidence did not exist, they would make up facts, or they would exaggerate. To an extent that it was honestly mindboggling. I want to focus on one part first. The republicans keep pointing out 20 Shell Companies<\/a> of the biden family. These are actually 20 Shell Companies<\/a> of, hunter biden. Anytime they say, the biden family, they are really saying, hunter biden. There has not been a connection between joe biden and these companies. To an extent, do we have the slides up . The first slide that is not the site. I will show it. There is an article from Washington Post<\/a>, august 17, 2023. Is says, how republicans overhyped the findings of the hunter biden probe. Is specifically when it comes to these 20 Shell Companies<\/a>, as they call them, they were overhyped. And they gave them three pinocchios. Mr. Chairman, i would like to enter this into record. Without objection. Great. They keep focusing on these 20 companies. The ways and Means Committee<\/a> reveals 700 pages yesterday, it was really dramatic. They used section 6103 to get returns. They said, we will show that they did something wrong. The chairman of the ways and Means Committee<\/a>, mr. Smith who sits on this committee presented when asked a simple question, they pointed out that this actually, the message of hunter biden was set in 2017. Joe biden was not even president. When joe biden was not running for president. Consent to enter another article by yahoo news. Nbc. Destroys the evidence against biden without even trying. Lets stick to the 20 businesses. 20 companies. That is a lot of companies for an average american like myself. I have a w2. I file my income taxes. My wife and i have simple returns. When it came to President Trump<\/a>, how Many Companies<\/a> did he have . Anybody want to take a guess . Mr. Connor, how Many Companies<\/a> did mr. Trump have . I have no idea the number. I reclaim my time. You can even answer a simple question. He had over 500 companies. He had over 500 companies. I looked at the tax returns. Why . Because i was on the ways and Means Committee<\/a> and i got to dig into. Between 500 17 to 543 companies. Republicans had no concern about that. They were structured in a way that was almost like russian nesting dolls. Each one hiding who controlled the others. The republicans bring it up . No. Did they have concerns . No. What happened this week . Lets take a guess. A judge said that President Trump<\/a> committed fraud. Business fraud, for inflating the value of his net worth and his companies. When it comes to the republicans, they have no problem with that. They have no problem. They do not want to dig into that. When trump controlled these 517 companies. When it came to hunter biden controlling 20, we see a direct line to joe biden. Thats what the problem is. They are cherry picking facts to connect it to joe biden. When they dont have facts, they make it up. As they did earlier today when they put up tweets or Text Messages<\/a> that were not connected. The point is, everything they are doing is to muddy the waters. I think it is disgraceful. When it comes to a president that committed fraud, president that caused an insurrection, a president that also sold our Government National<\/a> interests to the highest bidder, silence. With that, i yelled back my time. With a gentleman yield back . We recognize mr. Biggs from arizona for five minutes. I will put up on the board in just a second this is the entire transcript of the devon archer testimony i submitted to the record. In this particular thats going on highlighted up there, you will see that mr. Archer lets go somewhere else. The question, did he talk about it . Did hunter talk about how bringing his dad, joe biden, to ukraine or using his dad as Vice President<\/a> would add value in the eyes of the griezmann officials . The answer, yes. We are Business Partners<\/a> fade okay. What kind of leverage was hunter trying to get by using his dad . I think its more defensive. Defense of leverage, the value is there. Also in the same document, i asked him about the biden brand. Is it, dr. Joe . His brother, jim . No. He looks at me like im an idiot. Of course, it is joe biden. Then you go back and you see bob elinsky. He says, the biden family leveraged the biden name to make millions. Even from communist china. Who is the biden family asset . Dr. Joe . No. Brother, jim . No. Grandkids a got money . No. None of those folks. Then you get the stuff released from ways and means, yesterday. This is hunter saying to his uncle jim, bs. Explained to me one thing, tony, brings to my table that i so desperately need that im willing to sign over my familys brand. What is the brand . Joe biden. Pretty much the rest of my business life. Why . Because that is the only product i got. Joe biden, the Vice President<\/a> , at that time. It is in plain english. And cleaning it up, there are a lot of swearwords. Why would i give this marginal bully the keys to my familys only asset . Okay. We are told that there is nothing linking them. I have to ask this question, mr. Lee, i will ask you. If the brand and what you are selling is joe biden, then Vice President<\/a> , and of joe biden or his family received some kind of benefit by the sale of access , i will leave it there, or the illusion of access to joe biden, what does that lead you to conclude . If you look at actual cases i cited in my testimony, it benefits the family members can use the benefits of the principal. Theres not much debate about that. The issue of the inquiry, let me just stop and say, there has been progress in the last few weeks that many people after the archer testimony said, yeah, i get it. It is influence peddling. Some have said its the illusion of access. That is the new defense. Calling it by its correct name is important. It is a form of corruption. The benefits to the family members can be attributed to the standard of cases. What remains, did the president know that, direct that, participate in it . We know that he made 20 calls to Business Associates<\/a> and had dinners with them. That leads me to the followup question that is critical, these guys are looking for the gold bars to the menendez coat. That doesnt happen often. My question for you, tell us about when you have circumstantial evidence, vis vis, direct evidence, whats its value . In your arrest a conviction on circumstantial evidence . You can. One of the things i point out, the Supreme Court<\/a> has narrowed some of the elements on things like, bribery, those elements are no narrower than they were. It is notable in the menendez indictment that they brought the conspiracy on services. They believe these types of gifts obviously can be based on a Conspiracy Theory<\/a>. You are clearly correct. If the allegations against senator menendez are true, those are old school bribery. Not since jefferson and his freezer, have we seen that type of raw evidence. Today, its a lot more sophisticated. Everyone in this room has to acknowledge the influence peddling is the favorite part of corruption in washington. Its much more sophisticated. More than handing over gold bars or whatever is alleged in the menendez case. I have a document i would like to get in. I appreciate that my colleague pressed the American People<\/a> and the cnn poll says that American People<\/a> majority say they believe that President Biden<\/a> is involved. I move with unanimous consent to introduce an order from the Supreme Court<\/a> of the state of new york from tuesday, where the Trump Organization<\/a> was found liable for fraud. Specifically on page 28, there is a paragraph in title, quote, the trump brand premium, increased the value of trump assets by 15 or 30 , according to the Trump Organization<\/a>. Mr. Frost from florida, five minutes. And impeachment inquiry is a grave undertaking that is supposed to be in response to evidence of a crime. Mr. Chairman, you have questions, many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle in this hearing have questions, but questions are not the basis for and impeachment. Evidence is. Mr. Turley, on september 1st, Kevin Mccarthy<\/a> said that he would not launch a fake impeachment inquiry. On september 12, 12 days later, he completely changed his mind. My question, why . In those 12 days, did hard evidence appear that clearly directs joe biden to a crime . I can answer to what it was that pushed the speaker to make the decision. The courts have said, you dont have to have that vote on the floor. I think it is a best practice. Im interested in the 12 days. We know you are not a fact witness and you are talking about things that are already public. Is there anything that came up in those 12 days that linked the president to a crime . Yes or no . I have no regulation. We heard from you that thats why we have this inquiry. This inquiry has been going on since the day we got here. Since the day i was sworn in at 2 00 a. M. On a saturday night, this started. Lets pull back the curtain on what is going on. There is no evidence of crime. Only desperation and political pressure. This is what is going on the far right call for this sham impeachment hearing with no evidence. This inquiry has been going on, this is not the first hearing we have had in relation to this. On september 1st, the speaker of the house, mccarthy, says, no. We are not going to do that, we do not have the evidence or the votes for it to pass on the house floor. That was a good decision in my opinion. 12 days later, 12 precious days later, something happens. I am not sure what . Something happens, because then Kevin Mccarthy<\/a> comes out and says, yes, we will do and impeachment inquiry. What happened between these 12 days . It is very simple. Three threats from members of his own caucus, at the direction of former President Trump<\/a>, changed his mind. Number one, the threat to force a vote on impeachment, which would lose on the house floor and be another embarrassment with the long list of embarrassments. Number two, they would threaten to shut down the government. Something that will happen in just two days. Number three, this is the one that really got to him, they said, you are about to lose your job. They said, we will remove you as speaker from the house. That scared him so much, that Kevin Mccarthy<\/a>, the speaker of the house of the United States<\/a> of representatives, completely caved. Due to the threats of people within his own caucus. This fake impeachment is based on desperate political calculation, not any evidence. Mr. Chairman, you say this is to establish the basis for this fake sham impeachment hearing, but these witnesses are not giving us any basis or evidence, they are giving i have to stop. I reclaim my time. These witnesses are not giving answers. They are just asking more questions . One witness asked a lot of questions, another witness knows something about accounting, but no real involvement with what is going on. And charlie stopping on his way to the next fox news hit. This is not a serious inquiry. This impeachment is something that is very serious. We have to ensure that we focus on the wants and needs of the American People<\/a>. This is all for nothing. Half of the crowd has left. There is no line outside. The goal is to distract from the Government Shutdown<\/a>, it will not work. To this figure, you are being played by these extremists and donald trump it is costing the economy and this is not about the United States<\/a>, it is about, hunter biden. The only thing the president can be guilty of here, is being a father. I yelled back. I will claim some of that time back. Much of the evidence has relia hunter biden said this, he said that, therefore, case closed. There is something here. Professor gerhart, its knowledge it, hunter biden was dealing with Substance Abuse<\/a> disorder. He is under indictment, correct . Correct. Is this a reliable witness that you would deem . Probably not. The chair recognizes, mr. Armstrong. One is a hearing notice hold on. Sorry. June 10, 2019, impeachment hearing with joyce vance, who is not secondly, there is another unanimous for judiciary with two witnesses here, one week before we voted on impeachment in 2019. I appreciate you both being here. You were not witnesses at that point in time. The websters definition of hypocrisy. Two without objection, so order. Chairman, without objection order. Into the record dated january 6, 2019. A member of the subcommittee, the day after she was sworn in, came in the congress, and the article says, response to her words, impeach the mother ever, a day after she was sworn in. Some may say these comments are hypocritical, but this is an embarrassment to the time and people of this country. Thank you. Without objection. So order. Mr. Chairman, i am afraid they are engaged in personalities against a fellow committee member. It was the commentary that accompanied it that i am referring to. That is what she said. It was the commentary. She said it. She said, impeach the mother effort. The mess character raises. Its astounding. Throughout the presidency of joe biden, the white house attempted to claim that the president did not talk to hunter about his business dealings. Joe biden said during the 2020 president ial debate, no members of his family received money from china. He said, i quote, my son has not made money in terms of this thing about china. Nobody else has made money from china. The white house strategy has been, deny, deny, deny, counter attack. The evidence and the facts have forced the white house to change is story time and time again. The white house handlers continue to shift the goalposts. President biden continues to lie. How can President Biden<\/a> continue to maintain that hunters private business was simply that . Private. When it is clear from bank robbers, records, that joe biden was intimately involved in hunters schemes and crooked foreign business dealings. This image shows an email between hunter biden and his Business Associates<\/a>, stating the set up of equity in a chinese owned energy venture. This particular business deal was with csc. A chinese owned energy conglomerate. This email lays out the payment structure for equity in the company, which was known to be tied to the commonness Chinese Party<\/a> through the owner chairman. The investigation into the biden family, including, evidence turned over through document productions, have shown that these men were all in business with hunter biden at one time or another. James, tony, rob walker, on separate occasions, along with other hunter Business Partners<\/a>, have confirmed what this email said. They were all getting a cut. Who else was getting a cut . What is the date of that email . This is my time. Mr. Chairman, i asked that my time be restored. Please restore his time. Thank you. Who else was getting a cut . 10 was going to the big guy. I am sure my colleagues on the other side are asking themselves, who is the big guy . Let me tell you, we learned that he called joe biden the big guy. Tony, also corroborated that joe biden is the big guy. Rob walker, the irs whistleblower says that joe biden is the big guy. Finally, the Justice Department<\/a> obstructed investigators in delaware, who wanted to look into, the big guy. Listen, it is obvious, joe biden, is the big guy. What do we have here . We have the residence saying he had nothing to do. Hunter biden and nobody from the family profited from china. We have evidence here that the big guy was getting 10 . Let me read you definition of a trendy word lately. Gas lighting. Its a form of psychological manipulation in which an abuser attempts to gain power and control over the other person by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition. I would say to the American People<\/a>, look at the evidence before you, and make a judgment. Do not allow the white house or the colleagues on the other side of the aisle, try to convince you that what you are seeing is not the truth. Trying to convince you that you are crazy. You have extensive experience as an Expert Witness<\/a> consulting in the areas of whitecollar crime, fraud, and corruption. Actors hide behind nicknames or other pseudonyms to master identity . Its very common. What about these email images, you have investigated or provided expert testimony on in the past . Typically you will see codenames used in money being paid to somebody under that coating. Thats how these processes work. You are very experienced when conducting an investigation, if your boss prevented you from taking investigative steps, how would it work your findings . It would be obstructing. If i was put in the position, i would probably withdraw from that investigation. Has the doj ever restricted any of your investigative steps . No. Thats amazing. I yield back my time. Miss lee, from pennsylvania. Three hours and 45 minutes into this, the republicans own witnesses have confirmed that they have seen no evidence of any evidence. I think if my republican colleagues had smoking guns, they would have presented it by now. They would have talked about it nonstop. Can the gentle lady read a Bank Statement<\/a> . Im reclaiming my time. Instead, we are sitting here with no fact witnesses and no evidence in this sham impeachment to distract from their inability to fulfill their basic duty, to fund and run our government. Republicans know the American People<\/a> dont want their shutdown. Instead, republicans on this committee are attempting to distract the American People<\/a>s attention by spending taxpayer dollars on this sham impeachment hearing. Two days before they shut the government down, in hopes that the media, i do not just mean fox news, will fall for their scheme and give more airtime to the lies being told on this committee today. Then the real life impact shutdown will have on their own constituents lives. In fact, interment commerce district, the shutdown will cost 8937 of his constituents their paychecks. Jim jordans district, shutdowns will cost 3000 939 constituents of their paychecks. Republican shutdown will cost 6000 306 of her constituents and their paychecks. Loeb ober, republican shutdowns democrats are the party of shutdown. You guys love shutdowns. Paul, republican shutdown will cause 12,349 of his constituents their paychecks. Odonnell, 3235 paychecks. Eggs, 400 443. Mclean, 7286. Republican shutdown will cause 5445 of his constituents who will lose their paychecks. Indeed, when you add it all up, republicans shutdown will cost 217,583 of their constituents on this committees paychecks. Their income, for who knows how long . Let that sink in for a second. Those are mothers, fathers, caretakers, brothers, sisters, grandpas, friends, neighbors, veterans, who wont know how their food or medicine will be paid for or where the money is coming from. Many of them vote republican. But i bet you not one of them cares more about Hunter Bidens<\/a> laptop or helping Kevin Mccarthy<\/a> keep his gig as leader or speaker of his dysfunctional caucus, then they care about receiving their paycheck and making their ends meet. The republicans on this committee are betting that we will spend the hearing engaged in pickering over their favorite buzzwords. Weather talk about the maga shutdown to crush all of our constituents. To be honest, i dont quite care about private citizen hunter, with the proper authorities are dealing with, or the cable news culture war distractions. I care about 7 million babies, mothers, across the country who will lose access over food and formula in my district. I care about 300,000 families, 20,000 veterans, who could face eviction from their homes. Where diseases and cancer patients, whose terminal trials will be delayed for months. I care about seniors who are unable to get help with Social Security<\/a> and medicare. The most marginalized folks of the brunt of these attacks. Keeping the struggle in mind, we have had two hearings on the formula shortage, yet with a 320,000 babies, women and children in her home state of michigan, about to go hungry due to her party shutdown, it seems like my republican colleagues only care about an issue if they can point the finger in another direction. Mr. Gearhart, one of your recent ipads, you mentioned that a good test for governmental action, is to switch the names of the Political Parties<\/a> and the actors involved. If the outcome is the same, its a sign of neutrality. It is not the same, its a good chance that partisanship is the driving force we could say that this inquiry will fail that neutrality. We are here america in this sham hearing prioritizing the political needs of the republican party. Pushing for donald trump as you go hungry and you lose your homes. Shameful. At the request of the witnesses, we will take a 10 minute recess. Claire matt","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia600508.us.archive.org\/26\/items\/CSPAN_20231001_163800_First_Hearing_on_Biden_Impeachment_Inquiry_Part_1\/CSPAN_20231001_163800_First_Hearing_on_Biden_Impeachment_Inquiry_Part_1.thumbs\/CSPAN_20231001_163800_First_Hearing_on_Biden_Impeachment_Inquiry_Part_1_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240703T12:35:10+00:00"}