Candidate in every general election since 2008. This is the second time the president has campaigned in the state th year. Air force one touched down a shortime ago in michigan and we will be bringing to the president s remarks live here on host at our table this morning is the former Trump Administration former u. S. Assistant secretary of commerce here to talk about this debate in washington over what to do about tiktok. The house approved this legislation 35265, overwhelming bipartisan support. Is this significant . Guest given the scope of tiktok users and how debated this issue has been over the last several years, it is really heartwarming and really encouraging to see the government come together on a bipartisan basis about the threats posed to u. S. National securities, absolutely. Host you said heartwarming, why . Guest in todays era, we tend to overpoliticize issues and it is really nice when in instances put partisanship aside and really come together to address National Security threats. Your second question is this a threat, absolutely. Director wray, director haynes, the director of intelligence has been incredibly vocal about the threat that tiktok poses. When you look at how much they have been issuing a warning, it is really unprecedented. We dont see anything like that normally. We really need to heed those warnings and understand that thes■ e apps posted by foreign adversary nations need to pose a threat. Host dig into the threat because it is■e interesting, our viewers were saying they were surprised that lawmakers would move quickly in that it passed the Committee Last week, and that you saw this overwhelming bipartisan support. 352. And they cant support other legislation but they can come together behind this. What is going on, what is behind this . Host guest there is nothing nefarious behind it. What director wray has been doing quite effectively is he has kept his foot on the gas pedal. ■■the threat of tiktok is emblematic of the apps hosted by foreign adversary nations. He has kept his foot on the pedal to the extent that congress can no longer ignore. It is literally impossible for the American Public to be educated on every single issue. That is why they have elected representatives to make those difficult decisions for them. The u. S. Government, the executive branch, director ■haynes have emphasized the isse so much that it is impossible to ignore. Host what are the National Security threats . Guest its incredible the capability that technology unleashes. If you use an apprsary. The media, the fbi director has talked about surveillance capabilities. We know about the app can drop code into your phone. If your microphone looks like it is off, he could actually listen to everything youre doing, monitor all of your keystrokes. Then there is the risk of pushing out algorithmshat push out content that is destructive. Destructive to children. Europe has actually had cases where they tiktok for pushing out content the children that was inappropriate. But even more so, in addition to all that, because i think the average user is going to say i am consenting to all this. I am consenting to tiktok to have this. I know thei[mit be listening, but im not really saying anything important. How do these apps connectsoftwas infrastructure . Communicating with the Telecommunications Infrastructure, so malicious code is also able to be transferred into the teleindications infrastructure. So youve got individual risk to individual people, risks to the population, collecting massive amounts of data on populations in the United States. Demographics, regions, etc. And also risk to the Telecommunications Infrastructure which we depend on. Host is this effectively a ban . Because we read from david singers News Analysis in the New York Times that the Chinese Government has control over the algorithm. Our says it is like a u. S. Compan ferrari without the engine, you wouldnt get the algorithm. Guest that is the point. Bytedance has repeatedly said. Remember, bytedance is the parent company. A thorough review of the National Security risk. Bytedance has said over and over again publicly that it will not buy back tiktok. Know that. They know that bytedance isnt going to have that space. That legislation has built in suspenders that says you are supposed to buy it back because your ownership of tiktok is a significant National Security risk and if you do n divest, we can prohibit the provider Web Hosting Services from providing your app and we are also requiring that users prior to the prohibition, users need to obtain their information from you, youre supposed to get that back to the users what youve been collecting on them. Host what is the likelihood that this company would give that user data back . Guest nothing. They would do it in a very insignificant way. Of course, they dont want problematic, they dont want problematic conference on anything. With theeb hosting services, prohibit them from offering any upgrades or any provision of the app. Getting three was involved in the conversation. Leonard, democratic caller. Hello, good morning. I just want to say to the lady that is talking, i just want to let you know, you guys in congress, senate, white house, you dont have any credibility left. We dont believe nothing you say. We already know that weve been attacked by American Companies, foreign companies, everybody stealing our data. Bring you guys to try to ban tiktok to control what we think and what we know, we have exactly what you guys are doing. Ban tiktok, you are going to greet situations where the democrats are not going to get reelected atrn on them. We dont believe in you guys. All you guys do is lie and more lies and more lies. Host lets take that point, distrust. Guest our government, american peop t good. It is an argument we heard in the first hour. I think it is a fair commentt t. Things have been politicized far too much, and i agree with that. Thats why i think it is remarkable here again that the country has come together on a bipartisan basis. I get that the color doesnt distrust the government and at the end of the day we are the u. S. Government is not going to have the trust of every single american citizen, and thats ok. The u. S. Government needs to to agree with, but that is ok. ■theyve taken over to represent this country and they are going to do everything humanly possible to address the National Security rk. The threats to u. S. National security are far more important that we have to start somewhere. Aunt tiktok is the one area with the acquisition of musically, we actually have the Legal Authority to intervene, and that is why tiktok has become the issue that people are focused on, because it is one of those areas where government has obvious jurisdiction to go and regulate. Host but the courts said what when the Trump Administration, which you are part of, tried to ban this . Guest the department of justice didnt defend the ban. To defend the ban. Ortant gds this is not overreach, this is not restriction free speech, and that is important to unpack for a second. Free speech is the content of the videos. That content is free to migrate anywhere it wants to go. What the u. S. Government is essentially regulating as a digital platform hosted by a foreign adversary. Lets get rid ofhat. But as video content, that is free to go anywhere. And the final thing i want to mention goes to the ca government wants to control what we think and what we see. I would much rather the u. S. Government control that is fundamentally not tru but even assuming some people believe that, i would much rather the u. S. Government control what i see and what i think than a country, the Chinese Government ruled by the Chinese Communist party who hadternment camps ands own significant citizens so significantly that they cant do anything that defies the communist party agenda. Social Credit Scores would go down. I would much rather the u. S. Government control what i see rather than anybody else. Host Nazak Nikakhtar is our guest this morning. She served during the Trump Administration from 2018 for 2021. Shesning to give us her insight on this idea of regulating tiktok or ethics legislation that passed in the house would do, possibly ban it. Democrats, 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. 02. Remember, you can also text us your thoughts. Mike in aurora colorado, you are next. Caller good morning. Im calling in because leonard was right. You both know lobbying is just another word for bribery so im pretty sure what happenedas peoe genocide happening in palestine and the 100 years war that has been happening on palestine isrt and bribed all the politicians to ban tiktok so they can learn about this information. Host lets talk about the history of trying to regulate this app, because it goes back to when . Guest it was before the israel war. It preceded that. I know there is temptation for people to bring in their concern into this broader National Security debate, but i really encourage everybody, the nation is under significant risk by foreign adversaries, primarily china in terms of its infiltration into our telecommunications network. The list goes on. So lets stay focused on the National Security threats that right have to do with china, have to do with apps, and the u. S. Government is trying its very best to regulate. It knows it is going to make a love people upset, but think about this. The politicians are being lobbied much re tiktok rather t. There is no lobbying dollars and banning it. And the fact that the stepped up and said this is the right thing to do underscore the fact that there isnt lobbying involved, it is actually people epping, stepping away from lobbying dollars and saying im going to ban this because it is a u. S. National security interest and informs a blueprint of further actions to come to better protect american interests. Host is that the interest of that this happens . The former president is now saying hes not so sure against this legislation because hes worried a company like meta would take over and get even bigger. Guest i dontpect of the comp conversation because bytedance is not going to divest. This is■ software, it is all integrated. Bytedance is not going to give that up and certainly not for any amount that any u. S. Company is going to pay. So i really want to just move away from that conversation because it is just moot, it is irrelevant and really focus on the National Security risk. The fact that i dance also will not divest is a really important signal that■l is so critical about the u. S. User data that bytedance that is controlled by the Chinese Communist party will not let go of this. Host since 2019 tiktok has been under review by government panels. The committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. You worked with them. Tell us about this panel, and what are they reviewing . This panel form or way been in effect since 1988. It is interagency body shared by the department of Treasury Department of defense, the white house, the department of energy, department of state. And the Committee Reviews certain foreign entities in the United States for National Security risks. And if the u. S. Government decides there is a risk to National Security, it has the Legal Authority to ban to either block the prose divestite if it has already happened, or mitigate if there is a National Security risk. U. S. Gernment would use those laws or reach a mitigation agreement with the parties to mitigate the National Security risk. The u. S. Government decides there is no risk at all, most of these, the vast majority are confidential. This interagency government body is not prone to lobbying at all bee nobody knows the transactions to come in and lobby. Tiktok somehow made it in the public space, there are legal processes involved to insulate them from the lobbying activity so the committee can act■ facts of what exists in reality. Host have they ever fork the sale of a different Chinese Company . ■eguest absolutely. ■theres been that seven prohibitions. The vast majority of them have happened in the last 12 years, and those have all been chinese companies. We are a country that welcomes investment, that welcomes our friends and allies, but the u. S. Government has spoken and spoken consistently and frankly, not enough to regulate chinese investments in the United States that really do significantly pose National Early risk. There is a lot of information out there publicly available about how much u. S. Assets the chinese companies■ governed by the Chinese Communist party. They own quite a bit of assets in the United States and that is really becing a big risk. Host baltimore, republican. Caller yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. For your guest and then a followup comment. My question is google, facebook, where do they store International User data . Guest so i actually frankly dont know where companies store their data. I will telyou that American Companies are subject to the extent that they are in jurisdtion, subject to american law, and they are obligated to privacy laws through the fact that the government doesnt interfere with activities very muc they generally take a very good effort to protect the data. We saw the debate with apple, u. S. Government, but u. S. Companies generally, as a general matter to a very good job. European companies, Japanese Companies to a very good job. I will tell y is a National Security professional, protecting user data. China is a completely different story. E government has a series of National Security laws and antiforeign sanctions laws they give the Chinese Government ess the Chinese Company data and frankly, any Company Chinese or not that operates in cna, but also demands that those companies violate foreign laws, violate u. S. Privacy laws. China makes it an entirely different calculus and different dynamic. That, combined with and they really want to draw distinctions between china and the united st china has one million to 3 Million People in internment camps andc monitoring every activity of its citizens daily lives through a social credit score which essentially requires that if you do not behave in the way that advances the communist party, your credit score goes down, you cant get a car, you cant send children tha population is terrifying and that is not how we operate host connecticut, democratic caller. Caller three separate questions here. One is from the way i read the law, we dont ban foreign ownership, it is adversarial nations owning tiktok. That is one. The way i read it, france could be the country even though china is probably not going to sell it. That is one question. The other question, i think the just came acrosna law an ai law protecting its users. Is ai connected in any yesterday . And is this the same district that banned the sale of the United States shipyards . That might have been in the bush administration. Is this the same committee that has taken actions like that in the past . Thank you so much for your time. Guest i commend the call dictated on the facts of late. You are absolutely right, the law deals with foreign adversary nations. Foreign adversary nations being china, the peoples republic of china, the russian federation, iran, north korea,a. A small sub. You are right, it is not any of those with any foreign ownership. This is an adversary problem. I do want to address the shipyard. Youre absolutely right about that. In terms of theit depends how y. Based on its algorithm, you could argue that yes, it does use a little bit of ai to kind of give you more content that you wan a different type of content. But fundamentally, the ai regulation is scoped a little bit differently. I worry that it may not be comprehensive enough, at least to address the threat posed by hosted by foreign adversary nations. Host you are listening and watching this morning to Nazak Nikakhtar who is former Trump Administration u. S. Assistant secretary of commerce and also now a partner at Wiley Rein Llp nation securit in florida, democ caller. Caller yes. One of the things that i recognize is that we do have an administration of professionals and the people that are learning from individuals who are actually involved in a lot of the processes to protect the American People as a whole, everybody. They are involved. One problem is that we have the house and the senate who are supposed to receive information from this administration and for some reason, they fight as though this administration is against the people. So weve got stuff going on where indiv