Exactly what leads me to want to write a book because their pain in the to do. Its finding if i look back on it is finding an interesting person in a situation that will allow me to explore interesting ideas. What almost always happens is i have lots of little projects stumbling along, magazine pieces of things im investigating. Become so interesting that i think wow, such a good story, have an obligation to tell it. Thats when it becomes a book. In terms of if you asked me to go to a class of students and give them a formula to how to write a good story, i went on how to begin. Host when did you decide you wanted to make be an arthur. My career path is something on the bottom of the tv screen that says to not try this at home. Is an art history major what i first wanted to do was be an art historian. I stumbled out of college and linda by accident on wall street. I got that job very accidentally without a great deal of intention. While i was working on my princeton thesis. It was effectively a book, i became engrossed with the writing of it. Ive never written for newspapers. I was a reader, because i like to read. They didnt have anybody say you are a born writer. When i finish my thesis they came back it was a great and i got very zane about how it was written. He never said it was nicely written so i said what did you think of the writing and he said it this way, never try to make a living at it. But i tried, that i really want to write. So i started willynilly and submitted things to magazines. It was haphazard things started to get published. The advice i would give someone, the practical things that happened to me that was useful was doing something other than right. It is usually useful. It gave me material that you wouldnt get in a normal journalistic life. That attached engines to my ambitions. To have that is experience. Host what are you currently working on . Guest at any given time you could see a row on a bench of folders of, i might want to do this. There are dozens of things there in various states of neglect. The thing thats got me just right now, it will sound boring, then writing the federal government when trump was elected i watch the transition. There bits and pieces in the newspaper about how deal Obama Administration are prepared to trancprepare for the transition. But the political level of 4000 her role in not knowing much and have to quickly cram the figure was going to and sometimes the people who roll and know a lot about it sometimes they know nothing. The point of view of the Outgoing Administration is to educate the people who come about how this works. The Obama Administration because theyre so grateful to the Bush Administration for how they had prepared during a time of crisis, obama directed his government to Pay Attention in a big way. They did the best course of ever created from agency to agency. In the Trump Administration did show up for. Some departments really didnt show up for it than i thought thats a missed opportunity. Crazy. Even if they didnt like anything obama stood for you could still learn a lot about how work. And the amount of overlap was much greater then what people would have you believe. So i wanted the briefings. I started calling up career Civil Servants and say can you give me the talk with the briefing book that youre going to give whoever was supposed to show so i can figure out how it works, and what they might not know that might kill us. And i started with the energy department. Thats scary to me. And it turned out a lot of the department are missing. Its more like the department of Nuclear Weapons. That was frightening. The second one i picked i said to myself Nuclear Weapons is alarming. In a new administration would come in and be so haphazard about the nuclear stockpile. So i pick the department of agriculture. And i spent several months getting those briefings. It was riveting, the people who were there and what they had to say. The range of activities they did. Im in a keep doing it. Exactly where it leads, i dont know. I kind of feel and excitement about the material. If you take your book, money balls it became an interesting story about people and personalities in americas pastime. How do you weave that together . It doesnt start big. It starts like what im doing now. Very small with an observation. I was sitting here watching my local Baseball Team went agent salaries were going through the roof i looked and i thought, thats odd. Used to be these people were paid the same but there were close to each other. Now leftfielder be granted and someone getting millions of dollars. So watching the money on the field for a while and realized the story is not that, not only that, is how much money the team has. My team is of 14 yet its winning as many games as another one. So starts with a question, go see the Management Task about it, their answer is riveting, takes about a month to figure out this is an magazine piece or article its a book. Into this is tossed the interesting character billeting play by brad pitt in the movie i realize to be the engine to the narrative. And then how do you put it together so the reader will keep turning pages. At the bottom, thats the easy part. Its figuring out what the stories about. And in that case what i thought the story was about was not baseball. Underneath it, the fact that a market of any people at any level market could be so inefficient i thought that was incredible. Forget the Baseball Players. Corporate employees are doing what they do on the job with millions of people watching their statistics attached to a lot of what they did on the field. Of those people can be miss valued that you can build the Baseball Team out of that, who cant. So those at the bottom of it. That was an important story and transcends the media subject matter. Host is an aha moment . I cant always answer that question, but in the case of this is funny, i grope, i try to figure out how the operation ran. I started with the front office and they explain strategies and players are miss valued because people use their intuition instead of Statistical Analysis. And i said what players think of that, its kind of on your team, they dont look like most teams. First baseman who never played first base. He said we dont tell the players anything. Because it confuses them. I thought this was the start of a conversation there kind of lab rats. So thinking i had a long magazine piece. So went to go systematically to get to know the players. And i move down the clubhouse. First time is in there after game is a night game and i was waiting for the player to come back and greet me and all the players are coming back there all they could. It was the first is seen oakland as make it and it was unpleasant. A lot of body fat where shanda ben, michigan parts and i thought if you find those up against the wall and asked them what they did for live and nobody would guess their professional athlete. Book tv interviewers may be, but not professional athletes. When i realized they didnt look right i mentioned at the next day and he said thats a funny thing. We talk about that. When a player looks wrong its one of the reasons the market miss values them. They look like someone has played before or the idea of a athlete the market will get it. But if he short, fat, or have to click feet they Say Something is off of the markets put off, he said we are in the business of finding people who have defects. The more obvious and glaring, the better it is because the defect will distract the baseball expert from seeing the real value of what theyre doing. And thats my thought, how they look in baseball is have an effect on how their value . Then i thought this is a story about markets and how screwed up they are. Women in the workplace, it applies to a lot of things. Its about the way we stereotype away the cap people and how it affects the value of the people. So then i thought how to move it out. At that point i had a book. And bodine would say i tricked him. And his right. Were six weeks into a relationship and think it may be a piece for a magazine. When i rolled in i said this might be a book. You can see the expression change. He did not want to book written. It was too late. He thought i cant quite get out of this now. You can call in. This is from 2011, lets watch. The journey started when i stop playing me through pamphlet every. I read that and that was my moment. And then i went back and found all the bill james stuff i could read. And once i had access to the enforcing that there is no turning back. As far as last ten years were just trying to survive as a business and find a way to compete in a challenging situation. I dont think we ever envision the organization itself would be put out front its a bit surreal. Guest it gets even funnier because he got tricked into the book been written about him. Even when the book was done, i can understand what they were doing was different. I had to go see other baseball organizations and see what they were doing. I had a point of comparison. Even though that material would spend time on the cutting room floor. So i went out to the Texas Rangers and the mariners and seahawks, so billy d saw me doing this i said its not just about us, is writing about baseball. I dont want my subjects to become too selfconscious. He gets the book and reads it and he calls me and he is horribly upset. And i said, i was thinking if i felt sneaky about it its not totally in his interest for me to write this book. Theyre doing things that other people are doing. I thought thats what he was upset about. So i said what are you upset about and he said you have me saying and many crispy overtime. He said you do curse all the time. You dont understand, my mother will be upset. And i said your mother . I said i thought if thats all youre worried about i thought you were worried about i was exposing your secrets and theres a long pause and then he said you dont think anybody baseballs can read your book. Nobodies can reach your book. And so people do read the book. Nothing goes crazy. And to his credit, he could so easily have said Michael Lewis doesnt know what is talking about. I gave a few interviews but he got it wrong. He couldve thrown me under the bus. But he didnt. He fought back on my behalf. Flashforward a few months in a movie studio wants to turn it into a movie. This is 2003 or four. I had movie studios by and that theyve never been made into a movie. They say theyll make up at the wall. So billy calls me and says you not gonna believe it a movie studio wants to buy my life rights. Hes laughing like its preposterous. And i said no i dont want to book, that one movie. And i said youre thinking about it the wrong way. They just give you money. They never make anything. And you can take the money and it will never make it. I listed all of the things that they had bought is listening said wow. Thats a good deal. If i just signed it though give me money so he signs it. Every 18 months for six years he get another check. Call me and say this is fantastic. Then one day calls me and says you best her. Brad pitt just called, is on the way to my house. My wife is putting on makeup of the babysitters wearing the dress. I was in shock. Who would make a movie of baseball statistics. In the relationships i have with my subjects, i really a the chicken at a ham and egg breakfast. Im interested, theyre committed. And i can move on with my life, but a book and a movie exploding in a persons life, its amazing the grace hes handled it. Even if it is pleasant, its often distorted. Another book, blind side. Is a true your wife said youd be an idiot if you write the book. Guest yes. You may have already gathered in order to write it after tell myself why am writing this story. Im the only one who can tell the story because i have some privileged position. On the blindside, it helps if you connect up to things before. For at least rhymes or something you can say i can see why could read a book like that. So if its about baseball or how markets work. Ellipsis thematic connection. But the blindside, the accident involved there you shut me up if i go on too long. I wonder if database listening to me. Host we have two hours and 35 minutes. Guest i have decided i want to write a piece that was an exercise about the teacher who most influenced me in my life, happen to be my High School Baseball coach. I wanted to persuade the New York Times magazine to put billy on the cover and just get it how someone gets into the head of the kids so powerfully it was such permanence. The things he said to me then, here now. Especially when im in trouble. Size thinking about that in the story i thought she didnt just go with my experience. I need to see if other people as adults feel about them. I was in memphis and i thought sean leaves here. They been in the same class from kindergarten through 12th grade. I got out he said the only Academic Awards weekend with once they gave you for being there for 13 years. So i call him and he picks me up at the airport. First thing said was, who writes your book . And i said i read my books. He said, you dont write books, who actually write some i said, i sit down to write my books. Then he goes your word dumbass like me in the back of english class you dont write books. It took me a while to convince him. He takes me to his house and he was a poor boy growing up in his been a huge success. Hes got a huge mansion. Introduces me to family. In his living room is a person i said who is the kid and he said he came to our school, leanne saw him in shorts and a tshirt going home at the bus stop in the snow. Pulled over, and she realized she was homeless, not functioning in school. She took him in. And we get back in touch and i hear the story of whats going on. Is clearly with my fair lady accepted with a modern twist. They are rich, white, evangelical christian report again. Other trying to turn Michael Lawrence 12. I was some success all of a sudden he becomes of her regime, he starts to succeed in school, he comes out of his shell a bit. Sean had been a gifted athlete. He was drafted by the mets at the time. Maybe by the red stew. He was that good. Sean is a fixer. He knows how to fix things. He looked at michael and said i can train him up. Is not a basketball player shape he said i can train them up so it Junior College coach will want him. Because of moneyball sports franchise start to get in touch with me and want talk about analytics and how you intellectualize their sports. I became friends with the guy in the front office of the San Francisco 49ers. We Start Talking about the interesting questions about money and support. Reset its not how much money you have, its more how the money is distributed across the city of data on whats happened to that since reagents happen . But then a market emerged much of the market say. He said the quarterback is the highest paid on the field but it used to be like a running back. A more highprofile player theres a guy called the left tackle who guards the blindside became the second highest paid player in the nfl. There are basically elephants who are ballerinas. They were huge and had big hands their agile and quick so then sean calls me up and says you wont believe what happened. He said and then was an acquaintance and had come to the school and see michael or on a Basketball Court and said to shawn, thats a future nfl left tackle. That time he had been in uniform they had them on a bench because they thought he was a defensive player and he didnt want to hit anybody at this point i turned to my wife and said she had heard some of the stories and some of its quite moving. He stares at a benefit as ive never had a bed in my life. This is a new thing for me. And thats in the movie. These things are happening. I thought thats not my story. It feels like its cheating to make them the main character of the book. Fun, and theyre playing the golden state warriors. He was staying with the spirit we went to dinner. He started telling tabitha the stories turkey was in tears. And i said, there is a a book u but its in my book. Its about some of the kind of person would write. We got in the car and she said youre an idiot if you dont make this the next book, the inherent drama in the story will carry it. And i realized at some point that there was a way of id realize i can harmonize with my own writing if you ask the question how does he go from being an illiterate foraging likely to be dead or jail when hes 15 isnt pretty. How does he go from the least visible people in his age to one ofis the most. All in two years. How does that happen. The force that led these things to become very valuable and another of the things is the mother so im going to writeoi a story k about these forces. When we think of poor america we think the athletes get out. Their talents are so conspicuous they get spotted and the truth is even something as conspicuous as the tackle would have been mixed but for the action of the family and some other people but nevertheless it took some accidents. If that kid can be mixed, what talents are in their. Its such a waste, so that is what motivated. Its whether i can explain who wrote this and if i feel Strong Enough about it i think i do now but back then i was anxious about whether i could do this. And our audience may know who this is, im sure they do. Most people know she is more quickly than they know who i am. Now an art photographer you can go to the website and i watched a second act which was hard to do. I dont know if youve heard this way but she didnt have the ambition to be on tv. She started her life behind the camera and they said you go get on camera and the person didnt show up so that is how she ended up on tv. I was covering for a very peculiar way the president ial campaign. It i was basically the main candidates were not saying anything interesting but i noticed that there was an interesting story on the side of the campaign. Many people think they are runningy for president but the minor candidates, pat buchanan is p well known who had a passionate following than the major candidates. So on the road constantly and there was a little bit of an information looking for materi material. There was something the choose or lose bus registering people around the country so the publicist unbeknownst to