He wrote a memoir as the New York Times declared he was a great man and the dole book because he didnt reveal too many secrets. But my grandfather had an extraordinary career because he served the country in three wars and he helped make poison gas during world war i and and became president of harvard and because of the wartime experience and a chemist by training and was recruited by roosevelt as a general of World War Two in charge again of all chemical weapons including the bomb and ended up to oversee the Manhattan Project where they built the first atomic bomb and then one of the key architects and then became a key adviser with the Nuclear Weapons policy how to confront the russian threat how to become ambassador to germany germany when they thought the war might to be fought right there on the lines because of soviet aggression and because of the entire wartime experience the only way for democracy to survive to be a strong country was to have a great School System to show that democracy was better than a dictatorship to have sufficiently talented people and government and science to implement in schools across the country you for what he felt was the of leaders of the technically advanced if we were going to be a great nation in the hightech world in the 50s and the 60s so to have the extraordinary impact on american life. And the focus on meritocracy because many people dont realize what a Critical Role he had to shape the future direction of our country in that regard fifth he is often referred to as the father of the american meritocracy with the whole notion that everybody should have access to a college education, it should be determined entirely by merit not by birth or family or geography and that came about through his early work at harvard to apply the military intelligence test and using the s. A. T. As a tool to open colleges everybody to make it a system as fair as possible the s. A. T. Is very controversial now but as many critics with the idea was fairness and openness the traits that my grandfather thought were key to the american democracy of the free and open in society. To strengthen and preserve that quality feeling that was the best way and he saw the s. A. T. As a tool. And that experience that he had the privilege to opportunity. He was from dorchester in those days was a workingclass suburb that was called the commuter suburb because they were moved up there because land was cheap and plentiful so they took us trolley cars into the ruling class very much look down on dorchester as the elder wilderness uncultured the he met growing up around their precious old city and he was a scholarship boy a after going to look full Public Schools that was a partially private he won a scholarship at 16 very much from the wrong side of the tracks now was a school of rich men and you felt negative. And with such a school of richmond that his graduating class of 1914 to come to school with butlers and livein fast apartments with a large stipend and of our residents with a fireplace and swimming pools and laundry services. And then to live in the unheated room houses. He had no heat, no Running Water and did not even have electricity the first few months. He used to day than the gymnasium. It was a much harder life for the of scholarship boy of he never forgot that. That they cannot get into the better fraternities many friends had parttime jobs for the woodwork long hours to pay for books and meals he was luckier his father was making a pretty good income so he provided him with money for books and meals but never forgot that huge divide between haves and the havenots and that formed the core of his educational philosophy. He seems to have a strong sense of self from the very young age. I remember reading that he rejected the idea and wanted instead he neil wood had a good science and Chemistry Program for boys that age. He showed a real aptitude already tinkering with batteries and electricity and the new apparatus talking about doorbells to be introduced with he would go to his neighbors to rejigger the of battery and the electricity to mecca with a mechanism that gave him such a of huge thrill and then he would take things after that. So he knew by the time he was very young that is what he wanted to do with science changing and moving forward it was an exciting field at that time. Also to be quite driven Natalie Harvard at 16 but the stock market hit taken enough exams that he completed harvard in three years. Guest really it was to when and how fancy will injured into his off more credentials. So specialization was called in those days particular a from a scholarship background so he had two older sisters that he was driven to succeed in a provision profession he would have to make his own way to be very ambitious and he wanted to get ahead on to the graduate program and start trading for his profession so started to move very quickly on a very narrow track and those things like english and history. Host it reminds me of the subject of your first book you had a similar experience at yale with attila driven people. If you read the biographies of exceptional then it is often the case they knew very very young may be a coincidence of brilliance and the lock but to be very focused and to prevent individuals driven individuals with politicians with the course set at a very tender age. Host you begin the book with a powerful scenario Christmas Eve, 1945 the grandfather is in the kremlin the Foreign Ministers of the allies and stolid and the foreign minister from russia so tell me why you began to see with that particular time in history . It was an extraordiextraordi nary moment. The war just ended and russia was our ally exploding the most powerful weapon never made. And then to bring the pacific war and then to help us make it. And then later we found out because of the espionage and they were cry disgruntled. And they were held with the spoils of war and geographically the russians were being very difficult but we thought with this weapon we would be in the dominant position of postwar negotiation secretary of state said we were in the catbirds seat that and with those first conferences they ridiculed it. And then to make jokes about it. And the most victorious nation with a huge weapon and the russians refused to take it seriously. If they had not proceeded as anticipated secretary of state burns agreed to a special conference over christmas and those who try to talk to the russian scientist and then to agree to a nuclear control. And then to control the future of all Nuclear Weapons. And almost all of those this was not the secret that we could keep the technology very quickly to proliferate they could not protect that not only the russians but the dictators to conceivably get ahold of this technology. There was a great fear that this was so powerful it could destroy the world in the wrong hands that the terrorists could use said clearly envision by its creators before the war was is a over trying desperately to put in Place International controls sold the weapon could not proliferate having people to stockpile so this meeting in moscow was so crucial because my grandfather and those that went to were desperately hoping they could convince stolen and sold off to control the future of this terrible force. Their optimistic it is still we done but by the time they left moscow that the russians really wanted to participate in these negotiations. That this might be the form of control. The scientists hope that in exchange of the enormous gesture on our part that Nuclear Secrets in exchange for this technology and they could form the International Organization elevator try to do this through the un but as an International Organization, the community of likeminded nations to supervise the laboratories and then in a way that was the idealistic hope that they believe that this time that was achievable. And what other believe could they have . Except hope from the International Control and it could be replicated so they had to strive for International Control that was the only way to avoid the desperately dangerous arms race from developing so with this Christmas Eve summit at the kremlin is ready had their hopes pinned on the meeting. Also the cusp between the World War Two and a poignant time in history. It was to bring around thinking to say there was a chance and by the time my grandfather return from the trip he began to have grave doubts but of course, as we now know for sure years later the of russians exploded there first atomic bomb 1949 and the cold war began in earnest. Along with that desperate arms race were still struggling with. Although he may not have accomplished the short term objective. And then some of those functions they would describe. Guest yes, again my grandfather they were incredibly prescient in a meeting with truman. In the hands of the enemies and that this falls into the hands of enemies and to be terribly vulnerable. And then is devastating beyond belief. And then to struggle mightily and then when that opportunity faded they did feel fearful not to have the power needed to keep the arms race from developing and falling into enemy hands. What they accomplished after world war ii but his mother was a quaker and while a student at harvard he was not enthused about the probe or effort to build in the United States without a substantial conversion with the french and belgian troops. How did that come about . Beloved chemistry and science of revision for the nobel prizewinning scientist in became his father many of the relatives were quakers and averse to more than so much so that when at harvard when the war broke out in entering graduate school a great many of the classmates and friends were caught up in the war it divided the campus become very. With the war and the allies students were drilling in uniform. Many were volunteering and was just horrified is seeing rolled or one as these aggressive old empires and then to battle it out and did nazi that as a reason for america and personally had no desire to get involved. And to lose friends over that. And to admire his isolationist position at that time. But when america finally declared war on germany with the new chemical weapon of the of the rising gas on his way to volunteering and felt they had no choice at that age to declare war on germany a very famous chemist that often said dont go off the shoulder. That we need you to help us with a plan that get to the front. Europe chemist and develop protections and to develop even worse. Is so convinced they did not volunteer and went to work protecting the american version. And that was the weapon of choice. And then to perfect as a formula which immediately went into production. And then they were making 30 tons by the end of the war producing more mustard gas than all of the european nations combined. And then to make this horrifying weapons of mass destruction. And with those terrible misgivings he called it trying to beat the devil at his home game that was horrible work and felt he had no choice and then sent to a secret facility to try to invent an even more deadly gas that he had come up with with another chemist and theyve produced this terrible powerful new poison gas the deadliest ever made in a designated teethirty for but, theyve known as lewisite. They finished production and my grandfather was usually relieved the worst of the weapons would not be used. The way to have his First Experience during world war one that his grandfather began a Public Service role in this matter and didnt have just day chemistry role but those that were hoping to bring about to have the first taste of what it meant with a common endeavor and then leading the of Manhattan Project. Is a life changing experience for these men in the well educated and on track but completely taking them and a different direction throwing them into wartime. And with that Training Ground in both cases you had physicist and scientist brought together making weapons doing testing and research and to be made available left and right with advances in science more tied accelerates the pace of science advances. Win the war is over with the excitement and a sense of what could be achieved working with brilliant men that left a huge impression and the knowledge that technology could rewrite the rules of war and they could change to bring victory at much less loss of life so as the storm clouds gathered and america was completely isolationist with no desire to get it to a european conflict they understood the more that we sat on our hands and did not get involved with those caribbean nations were threading the democracies of europe. They had been at the cutting edge of science. They know that the developments would mean in the battlefield. Then, he returned to harvard. Go back to his initial love of chemistry. History had a different role in mind for him. Could you describe how he went on to great feats in chemistry, on his path to a nobel prize but then was called to serve harvard in a different capacity. Guest he wanted to be an academic scientist. After world war i he courted his girlfriend and married his mentors daughter. Here was a married the bosses daughter and he was from the other side, it was a feat to convince his mentor that he should be allowed to marry this girl who is harvard royalty. He was ambitious because he told her that he wanted to become the greatest organic chemist in america, become president of harvard, and achieve a cabinet level position. So he first saw his future quite clearly. She scribbled those down in her diary she was courting him saying these were a young mans pipe dreams but she was curious to see what he could achieve. He was a hardworking,s, brilliant at attacking chemical problems of significance because he was trained as a physical and organic chemist he couldve made headway very quickly and then his particular triumph wasnt helping determine the structure of chlorophyll. He has so many awards and papers, he did significant work and was seen as on track to win a nobel himself. In 1933, president harvard retired on their seeking a successor. The corporation, the board of harvard came to him and said, who do you recommend . You are this brilliant scientist you should have ideas of what we need to do to bring harvard into the new century. He gave such an exciting, informed brilliant exposition of the problems and challenges ahead and how they should be resolved, he became a candidate. He became a very young 40 old president of harvard, or from the wrong side of the track. The newspapers had a field day with it. His science career he thought was over. As i recall, the book describes harbor having rested on its laurels and maybe to some degree lapsed into mediocrity. His goal is to build a meritocracy among the faculty and students and elevate harvard to what we know to be today. He seemed to have tremendous vision of the future. It was the oldest, most Prominent University in america. They had brilliant professors but many were retired and several had died. They had lost some of their leading lights. It is also becoming a college of rich men sons. He made the argument that for harvard to regain and repay its position as a leading university in america there are all these upstarts that were growing, the university of chicago and hiring great people that to compete from the west harvard needed to needed to hire and recruit the best lines foster an environment where merit was the most highly priced not family background. Many harvard tutors were well born sons that had a private income and tutored it it was a nice living for a cambridge boy. He wanted to put an end to that. And have only firstrate people on the faculty that were on tenuretrack and get rid of the incestuous hires and deadwood. Also as soon as he became president he scandalize university by saying that he didnt just want sons of wealthy families he wanted to open up admissions to boys from outside the Prep School Circuit to Public Schools and schools from the midwest. Boys of different background in geographical locations. This was scandalous. Because harvard was the leading University Others took notice and followed suit. This bold experiment created National Scholarships and hunting across the country to re crew boys of intelligence, it revolutionized the School System and produce the notion we have today. If youre a bright boy of any background you should be able to find your way to a good university. You should get scholarship money and be allowed to rise in the american system. My grandfather was responsible for driving that notion into the american concept of our democracy and how it should work. Would be fair to say he may have led harvard to become the First University of great repute . Very much so. He really was a global thinker. His wartime experience shaped his view. He said that when he became president in 1933 was the same time that hitler rose to power. His whole view of education and the necessity of producing bright boys to fill important jobs, science, and technology wasnt just idealistic, he had a sense that this was a dangerous world. For america to be a strong country we needed to promote the best brains in this country and get them in positions of influence in government if were going to compete with these dangerous nations abroad. From the beginning his whole educational philosophy was to advance the best and brightest. The notion of diversity, a fair access to college, everything we take for granted were shaped by his experience. Host during his presidency he sought to recruit you lawrence from berkeley. Made an offer to become a professor of physics that lawrence became very close to accepting. Think he traveled to boston to her three times. He did decided to stay at berkeley, but he had good taste and it was evident. He hunted for the best people throughout the world. Guest he did. They became very close f