Again. I was never interested in it at all. A few years ago im a reporter for the New York Times i wrote an article for the times about really miraculous discovery. He was reporting in a technical journal. He managed to get the lung tissue. In that lung tissue there was still in fragments of the virus that had killed him. When i interviewed this man he told me about the influenza pandemic of 1918. And i was stunned. Ive just never heard of anything like this. It was the worst Infectious Disease epidemic. It killed 70 people. If Something Like that came by today. It would kill more people than the top ten killers. I just found out by looking at the papers. 99 percent of the email that died in this pandemic were under the age of 65. It was an astonishing devastating epidemic and what made the story for me was this idea all of these years later. They have actually have some lung tissue. What was this virus. How could it become such a killer. And could it happen again. If so would you recognize it in time. There is one reference in the book. They keep matching the number upward. 40million is an s an underestimate. There was a meeting of historians who were influenced in this. They are saying that the true number was closer to a hundred million. What is influenza. It is a simple little virus it just has eight genes and only lives in human lungs. And while it is their its only job is to take a long self and make it into a virus factory. The virus gets it and takes the cells machinery and forces it to to just make new viruses. Its a simple little thing. What happened to the body. The full hallmarks of influenza. One of them is you get a fever and take to your bed. You have muscle aches and pains. You have a cough. You dont always sneeze but you always have a cough. I said this is the flu. The muscle aches were the worst in high fever. Where did it start. This is a really good question. The first time it came into the United States in a big way. It showed up with camp devens. At the time this might be germ warfare because they couldnt believe it was Something Like the flu. Many people in insisted on putting that flew forward. And there were rumors that this has been a greasy crowd. Or that they had put something into bayer aspirin a bayer aspirin that would kill people. It was the most horrible thing that anybody had ever witnessed. They have so many young soldiers that were dying. The bodies were stacked up there. It was so shocking that that Surgeon General the leading doctors in the United States. One of them later wrote the memoir. I cannot even bear to think about this thing. It demonstrated that superiority. In the taking of human life. These are memories burned on his brain and that he would like to remove if he possibly could. And when they described what happened. When the doctors wanted to see it ought autopsy. They have to step over the bodies to just get into the autopsy room. And then when they watch an autopsy take place the military dr. Opened the chest of a young man who have died and there were her lungs. Totally useless. The man died because his lungs were filled with fluid. A dr. Had been imperturbable turned and said this must be a plague. He cannot believe it. In your book you have. The bottom picture this is a from of the samples of lung tissue. What was really miraculous was there was a military warehouse. People describe it is like the library of the congress of the dead. Every time a military dr. Does an autopsy. Some of the tissue and medical records. There were people that died 1918. At the time they took little snippets of the lung tissue. And sent them to the warehouse. Finally at the end of the century but in some acquisitions. And ask some people if they could find some lung tissue. In that picture you just saw was of the little pieces of lung tissue in it. After all these years there is still that flu virus. Lets go back to the Pathology Institute at walter reed. Have you been there . The 3 million samples they are in boxes. And drawers and things. It is the big metal warehouse. And everything with cement floors. Maybe its more cheap to make that way. There is a man there named al reddick. In his job i would like to get some lung samples. People who died of influenza in 1918 and who died very quickly. They did not want the person who have gotten the flu virus and then linger. And then the virus that left in their lungs died. Since 1917 has been computerized. He could get a computer printout. He goes over with his letter and his books. And in them were samples. There was brain tissue. All sorts of stuff in that warehouse. You said that Abraham Lincoln started it. From then on. It can be steadily accumulating. It was a brilliant idea. When they started this who would ever know what you would use it for. And then in 1918 no one ever found the influenza virus. The idea that somebody someday could make use of this material was just brilliant. I know im jumping way ahead. Do they now what caused the influenza of 1918. There are only eight genes in the flu virus. They have three lung samples from people that died who have those genes in them. Getting them out as pushing the is pushing the limits of molecular biology. A very detailed mosaic. They have gotten three of the teams completely put together now. They are choosing them in the order of the likelihood that they would get the easy access. The first three genes had killed the flu virus. Theyve not provided the answer yet to buy it was dangerous. There is only one person that works there. Im sure theres others. Did you get any sense that there was a lot of traffic. I was the only person there. It was pretty big. It was a huge warehouse thing. Just over the border. One of the things i must admit. I did not expect to get out of this book there are some is some personal stories in here. Were you surprised about the competition going on. By the time i started to write the book i knew that there was a story. I read fiction for fun. I would not write a book unless i thought there was a story. For me its not something i would pick up because i would want to read it. There was a drama there. There was competition. What book is this for you . What book is this for you . Against commercial it is the fourth. And how long had you worked for the New York Times . New york times. How did you get this. Its so silly. I wanted to be a writer. I really did. I was in a get a phd. I decided to get a masters instead. I was married then and i cannot move around so easily. Science gave me a job that was not as a writer. I said i will take this job but you have to understand im doing it to war my way into the writing department. After i took it i said i would like to write an article for you on my own time for free. Take it or leave it. Do you mind if i do it. Im originally from baltimore. And i went to the university of maryland. Before i decided that that was not the way either. I tried science. Science magazine is bought by what kind of person. Its mostly subscription magazine. They have a new section that is written for anybody to read. It can gets technical. You write something so a physicist doesnt have to know any of the stuff that led up to this discovery. Its like writing a normal news story. It is owned by the American Association for science. Another magazine is nature. Very similar. Has a new section. Written by science. Has mostly scientific articles. What was this a more devastating flu than the average one we care when we care about all the time. When you think about this. 1. 5million americans can die like this. In a typical flu season 20,000 people die. Here 99 percent of them were under age 65. A very peculiar dust curb. Death curve. In the end some old people died. See mike i would like to ask you to read it. The authors brother i guess died of this. And then where did he write this. He was writing look homeward angel. They said the subscription of his brothers death was actually his brothers real name and a description that was not fictionalized. Would you mind reading this and tell his wife at us why put this in the book. When i talk about the flu or people who are living today talk about the flu. Its almost impossible for us to imagine what it was like. I tried as much as i could to put the words of the people that have been there. It has an emotion that we cant capture. The reason i put the description in. With all of them that i have read about them dying of the flu this one really touched me. It almost brought me to tears. You can imagine yourself in that room. Watching someone die like this. It was one of those moments i cannot forget this passage. And thats why put it in. They came home to a deathwatch. His family waited for what they feared was inevitable. To that gray shaded light of the room. They saw a syrian recognition. The beloved 26yearold was dying. The long thin body made it covered by the bedding. They assumed not to belong to him. It was distorted and detached. His face have turned gray. By to read science. The beard was somehow horrible. And then the lips were lifted. Above his white dad looking teeth. In the sound of this gasping it was unbelievable. And orchestrating every moment final note of horror. The next day he grew delirious. By 4 00 it was apparent that death was near. Most the time he was delirious. His breathing was easier. Some old and forgotten. With the secret antics of his childhood. Two possible song of wartime. But now tragically moving. The babys prayer at twilight. His eyes were almost closed. The great flickr was dulled. He lay quietly upon his back very straight without pain and with a curious upturn in his face. His mouth was firmly shut. He was praying even though he did not believe in god or prayer. Whoever you are be good to bed tonight. Whoever you are be good to bed tonight. Amidst the hours. With the wild and synchronic prayer. Ben quieted and laid still. And then in the last breath. In a long and powerful respiration. Filled with the terrible vision of all life in the one moment he seemed to rise forward without support aflame a light and glory. And then past and afraid as he have lived into the shades of death. Does it say in the book what his brother did . I think another statistic. Twentyfive or 28 percent of the people got flu. Its only a very small percentage of the people actually get the flu. This was a infectious flu. People could not even understand how it was doing so fast. It was 25 times more deadly than the normal flu. Thats why they have such an amazing death rate. With his dr. Giving him a shot. What is a story about this. They were really afraid that the flu was coming back again. They thought it was related to a flu that also infected pigs at that time. Around the same time people were dying with that flu. Pigs in huge numbers got that. Its not clear how they gave it to each other. But they became convinced that the flu was related to the swine flu. A young 18yearold went out on a march with his unit. He was feeling sick with the flu. It was nighttime 5 miles hike. He have swine flu. They finally discovered. This was really strange. Its the very end of the flu season. It takes six months to make that vaccine. So president ford ask the doctors in the country. What should we do. Lets wait until next season. Lets see if theres a problem or do you say this one death is scary enough. And make a swine flu vaccine and give it to the entire nation. The decision was understandable. They cant take a chance. People are getting be dying rapidly. We will have no one protecting them. There was a decision to make. It turned out in president ford in order to try to encourage people to get the vaccine was photographed getting his own flu shot. It didnt turn out that that was that important. It turned out there was no swine flu epidemic. Its unclear how he got it. They indicated that they may have gotten one. Nobody was getting sick from this flu. They have a vaccine. It was not causing any sort of problems and around the same time everyone started getting immunized. People started saying the vaccine is actually killing people. I think that has haunted people to this day. You still hear people say flu vaccines they never get the right flu strain. In the vaccine can make you sick. And a lot of that got started after 1976. Were in the flu season as we record this. How do they know who determines what shot you get a couple months ago. There was a group of experts. That goes on all the time. And what they look at as they say what is the flu strain that is becoming the predominant one at the end of the previous year. What happens is the flu every year it comes to a population and it burns itself out. And then it mutates. It straightens up itself a little bit. If people are vulnerable to a it will infect them. Right above hong kong in Southern China do all flu flues emanate from there. Every major pandemic has begun in Southern China. And there is a reason why they think this is the hot spot for flu. In order to really sweep the world he have to get a flu that is so different from anything that youve seen. And then it has not been seen by human beings before. Bird flus are really different than the ones that affect people. They can come out with a new flu. And human characteristics. How come pigs and not cows. I cant answer that. I cant tell you that its only pics. I wish i could. If it is a heavy pig thing, do you kill the virus when you cook the pig . Anyway instead. In Southern China what they do the grow the race. And the only eat the weeds and not the rice. The pigs cannot get the duck flu viruses and the people that live very close there. They can get the virus from the pigs. You can end up with a new flu is starting there. This is kind of interesting for 1918. There is at least one researcher. They have this idea that the 1918 flu actually started earlier in Southern China. They have historical records. They were getting sick with something. And the chinese laborers were sent to europe. Every other major pandemic. Hong kong had a big scare in 1987. Do we know about that here. I thought scientists were overreacting. At the time what have happened. There was a flu in hong kong. They were getting really sick and dying. There was a big investigation and what can the flu did he have. Bird flues dont normally infect people. Immediately the alarm bells go off. Scientists always had 1918 on their mind. Nobody else except for this seem to be getting the flu. No one knows exactly how we got the bird flu. We dont know what it was but luckily its going nowhere. Young people dying of the flu. It turned out to be a bird flu. And that was very terrified because terrifying because it looked like something was happening in hong kong. Along with the very able investigators. With extensive investigation. It was going from chickens to people. It was even killing chickens and they dont normally die of flu. The big fear was if they dont do anything it would in fact the person and in their lungs the two flues would emerge. Would have 1918 all over again. And in order to protect the world. The Hong Kong Government ordered the every chicken in hong kong be killed. People like to buy these chickens at markets. All of these chickens are in cages. I think now it was at the time. Now i think it was a good idea. See mac how do we get the flu . The very first time that summer gets a flu do they eat it and has to get into your lungs. It also lives longer in the air when it was dry. Other than the flu shot to protect yourself is there a way to protect yourself. Not much you can do. You can stay away from people. Wash your hands a lot. Do you think flu shots are good idea. I said why was i so stupid. Ive two children. Their 18 and 21. I went to get a flu shot today. I want you to call and say that you got it. We got the flu shots tonight. He was a mathematician. He works for a nonprofit society in philadelphia. Back to this. What year was it to write this book. When you first call did you call your agent . Its what they typically do. It may be really interesting. I didnt know the history then. Id seen enough pieces of it. It would have a beginning a and middle and i was hoping an end. When did you really know is that that you have something unique . When i get a contract. What i mean by that. They found the virus in alaska. Thats when i realized it was truly a story here. When they first went to alaska. There is two pictures. That was in alaska. And what is he digging up there. A mass grave. Almost every one in the tunnel dash like tiny village. They had been very buried all in one spot. Weve all of the kids there. In 1918. And who was that. He was a path ill adjust. He came to this country as a medical student. He came here and he was very adventurous. What he would do. They started driving around. They spent the summer with the perry intelligence. There is a terrible tragedy. And the only way we are ever going to know what happened is if someone could just find someone that was buried there. In the lungs are still frozen. I know how to do this. I know this. Colleges. I can find out where the eskimo villages were. I can find out where were their grades. I could go up there and actually find a flu victim. He did do this. It was an amazing adventure. Three possible villages. The third village and the mass grave. There was a terrible tragedy in 1918. I would like your permission to dig in this grave and try to find that. They were told that its okay to do it. He did it to get some lung tissue in 1918. Theyre trying to grow the 1918. They did not about the consequences. He was growing at there. Thats how they grow flu viruses. They are hoping to grow the virus. Nothing happened so he concluded it was dead. He never forgot the grave in the 1918 flu. One day he would go back there with science advanced enough. And he would try again to solve the mystery. It was the 1918 flu itself. And then you have a 1951 trip by the scientists from 51 to present where is he located with this. He was doing lots of other things. So being an adventure but always thinking about the flu and always reading everything he could about influence and wreck molecular biology. When with the time be right. To try to do something to fight find out about this virus. Theyre out there at the Pathology Institute. Is he a military man he is a civilian. And whats his background. He got medical dr. He just sort of stumbled into this kind of career. He is a brilliant man who always asks the right questions. He got interested in influenza one of the things they do in the Pathology Lab there. They answer questions for other people in the military. In one of the questions he had been asked why were dolphins dying. One of the veterinarians said he has the dolphins around the world. He said if we can use the dolphin tissue can you pull out the mesial virus if its the