South of tulsa about 60 miles south. My father and mother moved there about 1911 or 12 because he had had experiences in shreveport, louisiana. These are as red experiences that were not present. He was ready to give up on the white people because the way they treated him. He had been thrown out of court in shreveport, louisiana. So he retreated from shreveport and where he was practicing and went to an allblack town. Due to the humiliation he experienced in shreveport. They moved to in about 1912. What was that experience like . It was not all that much better because although the strife that was going on separated the methodist from the baptists and the baptists were hard on my mother and father because they were methodist. And the result was, the strife was not racial, but religions. Not at all convenient or comfortable. I was born there. They lived there for several years after i was born. But they were not happy there. Not nearly because of the hostility but because it was such a Small Community that it was not practical for a lawyer to pursue his profession there. So my father moved on to tulsa, oklahoma. Left us behind and we went to the school where my mother was teaching. We went to move on to tulsa at the end of that school year. And the family would be put back together, so to speak. The tulsa riots happened in 1921. We were just about to move to tulsa and we were all packed as a matter of fact. We were waiting from my father to get us to get us on the train where he had already made arrangements. Secure the house and that sort of thing. We waited for him and he never came. Access to television or telephone or anything of communication, we simply didnt know what had happened. Finally, my mother read in the newspaper in the daily phoenix that there was a race riots in tulsa. And that there were many casualties. That increased her anxiety and apprehension even more. She wondered whether he was really living. We wondered if he was living or dead. It was about 10 days later that she got a brief letter from him saying he was all right. He was unharmed. Except that everything he had acquired, his law office was burned to the ground. The house he acquired was burned to the ground and that he had been in detention for those days and couldnt get in touch with us. This was his first contact. He said he didnt know when he would be there. It would be some time before he could make it down there. What was even more important i suppose was, he was saving that as an opportunity to make good contact with victims of the riots. He was suing the city and suing the Insurance Companies on behalf of his new clients. That kept him busy. He was practicing law in attendance at that time. The entire black community was burned to the ground so the only thing to do was practice in a tent. What sparked that riot . A young black man who was accused of assaulting, a sexually assaulting a white woman in an elevator. He had been acquitted. But the White Community felt justice had not been served. And that most of the white people felt all the blocks should be taught a lesson. Although he had been in jail and was being accused of this crime. The white people said they would get him out of jail and commit the kind of harm to him that would teach all the black people in the community a lesson. So the black Community Felt he would be seized and lynched. Large numbers of black people went back to the courthouse, armed. They were about to take him and give him protection when they were assured nothing would happen to him. And that they should go back to that part of town. Which they were willing to do but as they retreated from the courthouse. Someone fire the gun and the rest is history. Good afternoon and welcome to in depth. Our guest is john hope franklin. Author and coauthor of 17 books. Well known for his book, from slavery to freedom. His most recent is his autobiography. We will begin taking your calls in just a few minutes. You can see the number on the screen. If you live in mountain or pacific time zones, and book tv cspan. Org is our email if youd like to ask a question. My mother taught in elementary school. And then in where i was born. Shortly after i was born, i suppose within three years, she took charge of me and took me to school with her every day. Put me in the back of the room. Give me a pencil and paper and told me to be quiet. I was quiet. And she was teaching the children and had the alphabet on the board. So i copied those things on the board. When she was going around one day to see what the children were doing. She came back to see what i was doing and i have the alphabet and my letters and some simple sentences. She was astounded to learn i had taken in everything she was teaching. Im not certain when i learned to read and write but i guess it was at that time that i learned to read and write. From that point on, i was a student. House where was it to be an africanamerican in 1915 and have two pallets that were College Graduates . I suppose it was fairly rare. The africanamerican colleges and universities founded in the reconstruction. Were scattered throughout the southern states. And the last part, the last decade of the 19th century, statesupported schools, particularly ferguson. Of the law that brought an end to whatever move was made in the direction of whites and blacks being together. This separated races entirely and completely. States began to establish schools, colleges for africanamericans in the last decade of the 19th century. And so, by that time, youve got state schools, and schools established by their religious denominations and and they are scattered throughout the south. Some of them are fairly good and others were borderline i think its fair to say. And many were inferior. But you didnt have large numbers of blacks going to colleges from secondary school. It was rather remarkable. You had a very interesting point because it bears on what happened many decades later. And that is that more young black women were going to college then young black men. Men could fend for themselves parents believed. But young black girls could not fend for themselves in a world that was primarily a white world where they could become exploited. Become victims of white activity or exploitation or whatever. Much more care was taken educating the young black women. This is a trend that will continue for many decades to see. There was never a time as many black men were exposed to education in terms of Higher Education as young black women. Your grandparents were slaves . My grandparents were slaves. My father and grandmother on my mother side were slaves. My grandmother and my grandfather and my father side were slaves in mississippi. Where my grandfather as a young man crew what and married my grandmother. He became, after freedom, he became a rancher. [indiscernible] i got hooked on orchids. When i was at the university of hawaii. I was living in brooklyn. Thats when i really got started then. I had a good friend called [indiscernible] he taught me a great deal about growing orchids. He went to chicago from there and had a much larger greenhouse. And i grew up about 15 years. Then i came to in 1980 and built my first really substantial hobby greenhouse. And its sort of my dream greenhouse. Although sometimes i want a larger one. Anything larger than 17 feet wide and 24 feet long, you will become a slave to the orchids. Although i do grow and i have some some ferns and so forth. Banana trees. All kinds of things. Primarily orchids. Not blooming now but they are orchids. They are getting ready to bloom. I have orchids blooming all the time. These have been blooming for a year, nonstop. Its really remarkable. Even i am enjoying that long. This blooms all the time and i enjoy it so much. Where do you acquire these orchids . I brought some of these in from you get a permit from the department of agriculture and get some from brazil and some from the far east. Southeast asia. Some from the caribbean. All over. The good thing about coming into the green house every day, you see something today that you didnt see yesterday. I got this in bombay in 1976. It blooms every year. It will be blooming in february. Been taking care of that for 30 years. Yes. Ive got offspring out of it too. It sends out little plants, break them off and put them in a pot. The orchid i brought from bombay, india in 1976. This is which is getting ready to send out its new sleeves. This little fellow will grow up to be like these and then it will be blooming. The mayor of all fault gave me this. When i was there a few months ago. Its not blooming now but it was full bloom then. This is the orchid named for me. Its called lily of john hope franklin. These are named for my wife. They were developed by a place in south carolina. They were friendly and very fond of my wife. They wanted to do something in her memory. And they did that. Do think its an important thing for a historian to have a hobby like this . I think its important for everyone to have a hobby. Orchid growing is always challenging. You learn a lot. If a person didnt have a scientific botanical background, its always fascinating. Im enthralled by the orchids. Ive always been interested in growing things. My mother was a gardener. She likes to grow things and i follow her around when i was a little boy. So this is a continuation of that. It was a bestselling Nonfiction Book of the year in 1980. It sold over 1 million copies is it still on the market . Is still on the market and is still available. How many languages has it been translated to . I dont remember but i think like 20. That book was published in 1962. Its capitalism and freedom. Its sold well over half 1 million copies. The reason i mention that. Before they were first published, it was not reviewed. In the tribune at that time which was a major paper. It was only reviewed in the the reason is no doubt because of the fact it was in defense of capitalism and defense of free markets and that was not a popular topic at that time. [indiscernible] thats my wifes and my memoirs. How long have you been married . About 62 years. She was born as a matter of fact. I dont know what it is now, i think it is ukraine. She came to the United States just before world war i. As a child. But her birth certificate had been lost. It was burned up in the First World War wherever it was held in that town in east europe. Went up in flames. Theres a question of whether shes one year younger than i am or when youre older. In that book, you say you dont read the new york times. Very seldom. These days i read it more because i can bring it up on the net. Why is that . First of all that i live out here in San Francisco so i read local newspapers. When we lived in new york, i did read the new york times. In general, i have found its much too wordy for my purposes. I dont have time enough to read it. And im not very sympathetic with their general editorial position. In your lifetime, what other authors have had a impact on you . Probably the writer was we talked about that on book notes. Did you know him . Oh yeah, sure. Very well. I first met him in 1946 i think. Why was that book so important . It was not simply the road to it was the other books he wrote. It was because it helped me organize my thoughts about the way in which society should be organized about what was special about free society. What were the essential prerequisites of a free society. I was generally sympathetic to those ideas but was a very deep thinker. You cant read him without thinking. And you cant think without having your basic ideas honored. When did he die . Im not sure of the exact date. Must have been 1015 years ago. He was born and i think 1986 and he lived too, i think the age of 90. Who in your lifetime have you most disagreed with when it came to economic theory and this whole subject matter you write about . Obviously the marks and the socialists. But to pick out a single name, i should mention, the people that influenced me of the equally greater influence was arthur burns. Who was chair of the Federal Reserve system. He was my teacher when i was a graduate at rutgers university. Had an enormous influence on me. I mentioned, frank and item. Those people had a great influence on me. In your book, the two lucky people. Your autobiography. You mention the whole discussion for the nobel prize that you won. It took a number of years for you to get it. What impact did that have on you . It really didnt. I cant say it did. What about once you got it . The impact was not on me. Dont think you have much impact on the as a person. But it did alter my opportunities and made me much more visible and available. For the last two hours, your husband has all the same. He usually does. I heard it all. I never like to talk very much. He does the talking. Why is that . I dont know. Its in my jeans. Your picture is on the book. And i had an equal role in writing it. But i never thought id go out to speak about it and i refuse to be on the Television Program. I was very careful i did a lot of the planning. Nothing was done in advance. Then i got out of the way. Do you have any reason why you dont like to speak . No. I dont really like to compete. He speaks well. Hes done it all his life so why should i compete with him . I asked him why it has worked. Thats one of the reasons. Weve never competed with one another. What about economics in your life . I was trained fine. When we got married, my idea of being married, at least at the very beginning was very different than what people these days feel about getting married. What was it . I did not attempt to have a career to equal my husbands. And where did your family come from . My family came from what was russia when we were there. Its now its not russia anymore. Its the ukraine i guess. I never really kept much track of what happened because i was an infant when i left and i really have no ties to that part of the world. Where did you grow up . In portland, oregon. How did your parents get there . Under what circumstance . I guess the main reason was our relatives were there. My father came to the United States twice. The second time, he earned enough money to send for the rest of us. You went to the college for a couple years. Why did you transfer . Primarily because my brother was really responsible for my complete education. He wanted me to go with him to chicago when he first went to their on a very modest fall every modest salary. My mother thought i was too young and she wouldnt let me leave. And i graduated from high school. My brother persuaded her that i was old enough and that he was going to be there. So i went to chicago. Do you remove the first time you met this man . Yes i do. University in the first graduate course. Professor you heard this story so many times probably. He arranged the class alphabetically so he could identify people. His name began with s and mine with the. So we sat next to each other. And i was the only girl in the class. [indiscernible] this was graduate school. In the 30s, very few women went into graduate school. You told me briefly that you completed the work for your doctorate but didnt get your phd. Why not . Why not. I worked on it for one year after we were married but during that year i also had a job. So i didnt get a great deal done. After that we moved around from one place to another. One year in wisconsin, one year in and washington and one year in new york. I forget what the sequence was. We decided we wanted to have a family and that took a long time. How many kids . Only two but we lost the first one. First one was lost at delivery. So that took one year of my life. Then i went back to washington and went to work again and quit with the hopes that would help to produce a child. Where are your two children today . Our daughter has been in california. Ever since she went to berkeley. She decided then she was never going to leave california and she never has. Then she went to Berkeley Law School and got her degree there and started practicing in San Francisco. And she stayed there. Your son david, weve had on book notes. He was in the chicago chicago 456 years. We are going to the phones shortly and our guests here on booktv are doctor Milton Friedman and rose friedman. On the cover of free to choose which i guess is your most successful. Yes. What do you remember about working together on this book . It was very easy. We had the Television Program notes. In the book was written from that. So each started with one chapter and added for the next person to go over the chapter. So we went back and forth that way. So in the end, we really dont know who wrote which words. That was probably finished in the shortest time because we had a deadline for it. He wanted out to be available for the Television Program, when it was shown. So we started in march 1979 and we got it to the publisher by labor day. They got us published by january which is when the tv program started. What does she do that you dont what does he due, that you dont . We both tie. We both use the computer now. We talked about aging. Both of you 80 years old. Are you surprised how well you do. For those that cant see these two people, they move a well move around like nobody else. Many say we are bouncing around. I dont think we bounce around. I dont have the energy i used to have. Getting old is no fun. Is there any advice for people if they knew they would live to 88. If you knew you would live this long, would you have done anything differently . I think live more extravagantly. We were always saving up pennies. My brother used to say we were always saving pennies for a rainy day that never came. He would say youre saving your pennies for a rainy day and living in a perpetual drizzle. Did you agree in the beginning . We learned from the same teachers. Our home, he grew up very much in the same kind of home. And there was no reason, one should go one way and the other should go the other way. Go ahead please. Hello. Hello doctor friedman. Which doctor friedman . Either of them. Ive a question ive been wanting to ask someone knowledgeable about this situation for a long time. Seems to me with all this push for a minimum wage that thats going to automatically lead to galloping inflation. I havent heard anyone comment on this. Its just my own idea. What do you think . The question is whether or not the minimum wage will lead to galloping inflation if you raise it. I dont think it will lead to inflation but a lot of unemployment. Why . Because people for hiring these people dont feel they can pay the more. Therefore they would reduce their employees. At this time in washington, there is a sense that theyre going to pass an increase. Why are the republicans going to go along with this . Theyre going along with everything