Suspending programming in person through april that we have a virtual programming go to Commonwealth Club. Org that is updated regularly you can watch while sheltering in place. This is to address the impact of covid19 on our society also part of the future of democracy theories with that Zuckerberg Initiative and then others will follow that example. Im thrilled to be talking to two experts with the effect of covid19 and the effect it is having around the us and around the world the correspondent for the atlantic and has written for the magazine since the seventies. He and his wife deb are the authors of the 100,000mile journey thank you for being her here. And the director of foreign and defense policy studies at aei in washington dc a career defense policy and with the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and the Usa Department and the National Security council. It is a great pleasure spirit thank you to being here and also to the audience for joining us if youre watching on youtube you can submit in the text chat or on facebook right in the comments we will try to work some of them into the conversation. So to start be a global picture and then come down to earth a little bit later. But to get started can you give us a sense how more broadly democracy is doing in this crisis . Democracy is slow to organiz organize, slow for her Decisive Action but also the Political Science research is quite strong that democracies are more enduring in their commitment with public buyin and legitimacy the way authoritarian governments dont have. I thank you began to see that play out if you look at the oppressiveness the government of china enforce is a lockdown when a crisis was raging and the Chinese Government to share information about that experience for those that are prepared compare that to taiwan and south korea and japan with pride public voluntary compliance and over longer periods of time. Government type isnt the only thing going on the quality of governance with the catastrophic failure of the American Government at the federal level to organize and prepare and federal resources to bear is not a failure a government type germany, new zealand, finland are great so it sure does matte matter. Do you feel this is challenging demographic systems or do you agree we are better prepared because of the buyin and trust that you dont have a china or iran . Over my life as a reporter that contradictory things are simultaneously true i agree with what corey is saying that since we talk about democracy to recognize the importance of the Commonwealth Club and corey herself at aei but then to come from political traditions that the way in which she and her colleagues are trying to hold to classic conservative standards i just want to make sure thats why im glad to be with her. With all the institutions involved. We have that in common to. Let me talk about two countries one about china than the us and then to complement in the complementary sense that in china that shows the fragility of the system and some of the strength. May be the brute force china has controlled the election or infection stopping at 20000 that is hard to imagine. The reports i get from china is there is a sense of National Solidarity and pride the way they were ravaged by this earlier this year and a terrible price nationally and internationally but it struck me in the us the National Government has failed as dramatically as it possibly could and one of the things weve done to report for the atlantic and sessions with the Commonwealth Club it was the iconic weakness of the National Government we have city governments and mayors and regional coalitions and civic organizations still representing the america we would like to think exist. This is not us silver lighting moment that terrible Public Health that mayors regardless of party and religious organizations, the way we would like the us to respond is striking and a help we can build on with the democratic future. So the immediacy of government you see that often but i want to ask about Something Else peaking on thinking of china or iran or south korea or singapore they have more oppressive tactics to track people and ensuring their citizens are doing what they need to. So what are your thoughts how you think about that and if we strike the right balance . Nobody looking back toward this moment will be satisfied or pleased or complementary what us is doing to strike a balance and significantly region by region and that is the most hardening new development and now in the great lakes these regional compacts coming together there will be a feeling toward the balance its important to think about singapore i lived on the peninsula for several years to recognize the questions scale as a city state that to show authoritarianism that worked to protect all Civil Liberties. Carry on south korea is more free swinging but have authoritarianism and the more recent past is also a more concentrated geographic area. We could admire the tax and with that discussion that the mayors of San Francisco and chicago and los angeles and strict requirements and keeping with the city one of the tasks over the next month or two is evolving toward the balance of the economic damage that is profound the privacy interest we all have in the Public Health interest i have been reading the book the plague i will distribute that with the test get around the country. [laughter] these are longterm questions. What do you think . Is it worth giving up Civil Liberties for that Public Health recovery or do we need to be cautious like Contact Tracing or those qr codes using gillette people travel . You can see the Public Health benefits i dont expect someone that has covered government and expect to get it back in six months. [laughter] thats right you should never have a strategy whether a National Security strategy or Public Health that cuts against the grain of you are for political culture we are a country full of people who deeply distrust their own government and with good reason very often. Look at the way information gathers by Police Forces used for purposes then what free societies are good at and then arguing these through and balancing with a binary choice with those Civil Liberties are to compromise Public Health. We will have a big loud discussion over good thoughtful interest. Bobby chesney university of Texas Law School professor how to hit a balance that permits protecting the common good with too large of a compromise. But that is what we are good at. To add on to that, one important point this tradeoff we try to make it much more to cody and controls in the past month it would not have done any good because we didnt have any test and didnt know anything. South koreans had elaborate Contact Tracing. So it is an argument it wouldnt have been any good. So the other thing i want to say is we do have realtime experiments going around the country with similar adjoining states with statewide policies new york versus San Francisco we are having a realtime experiment and then we well know much more. What is the geopolitical as we try to grapple with what is happening and then doing what they are doing. And looking at china or russia, russia, who takes advantage of this . I am surprised americas adversaries havent been more aggressive to find ways to use the moment not just the internal focus but the first time in 75 years a Major International crisis in the United States have not step forward to argue about wanted to do to organize other countries with that Common Objective and with that the most in danger to figure out a way for the common good. And the enormous risk the United States is running that the adversaries that quite the contrary and the Chinese Government to propaganda the success and then to remind us how and trustworthy information from the Chinese Government because the United States is failing at something and then to take responsibility for. That everybody including asset is better off. So we are seeing for the first time what President Trump americas first tried it on strategy looks like into be much more dangerous and deadly and costly. And with that European Monetary Union and the unification because 67 percent of italians disapprove of the European Union and everyone is waiting to see germany as the main beneficiary to relax the concern of the deficit spending to amortize those bonds of the economy jim on germany steps forward with the european unification effort and that international consequence so far is the great powers and wealthy states have been held on it by them those that have travel in large numbers that when this migrates to the Public Health system this will be a disaster and more proportions we have seen in the United States with the Public Health systems. And then to help prepare. And then to protect ourselves they will be second and third iteration. Have a vested interest to raise the Public Health standard everywhere. James. Man his critics of authoritarian tendencies and then i dont want to deal. But at the same time we have pulled back from the rest of the world. And then it with those other institutions of america. And it was the opposite people were worried what trump might do in a moment like this. Yes between personal authoritarianism and governmental effectiveness. And very strongwilled and leader as when to have lashes of people that would swear but it was highminded and those authoritarianism with this public good in the Current Administration to see just personal authoritarianism. And then to be in sync with these different timelines affecting the way the United States and traditional leaders and that to set some type of example are that the us has the crisis in china and to be in terrible shape germany and france are struggling and sweden has its problems the only political space is listen to us south korea and taiwan have done this right south korea is a small place not accustomed to a big place taiwan has its own diplomatic situation and its obvious end and its ability so with the traditional usual suspects and then the mediumterm to the spring and summer of the fall recently in the atlantic and with those allies and International Institutions and now calling on them for help what have you done for us lately . Why should we be helping you . Then after this falls election and a different view from the rest of the world the way the whole election goes. And there are different tranches where nobody is in a good position to say listen to us except south korea and taiwanese. Can i get have a example to reinforce the point . The United States in negotiations with south korea of that deployment of 35000 troops that are stationed in south korea on the very day asking them with that medical equipment because the president had a fivefold increase and with the United States to base troops there. We were turning away the south korean who works on American Military bases. And then those crummy allies. Even with south korea. One other point it was a surprise between personal authoritarianism and the ability to work the machinery of government. And genuinely astonishing to me that President Trump in the president s man who had been so ruthlessly inventive find ways to get around the norms even in some instances like diverting spending to the wall. Adjuster get it. We can all make favors about that but i just want to note as we have been talking, i saw the president has announced he is suspending all aid all funding to the World Health Organization. I bid my time before responding. [laughter] shelley make a different point, more higher road. Cory was talking about the way in which an a administrati administration, ill circle back around to my mind, the most important essay in american potable history is one that came out 110 years ago and i was at a club with my wife, called the moral equivalent of war by William James and his argument was looking back on the civil war it was a most horrible episode in amick and mr. , more lives lost in the other conflict and all the rest of the words combine and yet William James said the personal courage the sense of the greater good, the Political Leadership that Abraham Lincoln and his associates, the better part of human character in american ideals were also revoked by the worst event in our history. So William James said the permanent struggle for society like the United States was to find a moral equivalent of war, the way to enlist these better parts of individual and collective behavior without having the actual war, through the history of the u. S. And sometime its often been military challenges themselves where people have been able to say all pull together or i would argue, its been a Public Health challenge, when i was a little kid it was a time of the polio vaccine and there is a sense that you had to stay home and not go swimming in the summer because you had to endure these limits on your own personal freedom for the greater good and there have been other times where Public Health has been a kind of moral equivalent of war and maybe that is something that will see here, again, the economic devastation that is happening now, the constraints on all of this if we think there is a greater good we are serving, that is part of the american tradition that it connects to in this thing on the World Health Organization will not help that occur in my view. I also want to take a practical stick to hit this bad decision on the president s part. America engaged internationally gets us and what International Institution that are Early Warning network out in the wor world, what that gets us is strategic debt, gives us the ability to understand problems before americans start dying from them. In the centers for Disease Control used to, up until year ago, fund the position for an american dr. Inside the Chinese Governmental health network. That was an extraordinarily good use of american tax dollars because that person knew what was happening no matter what the Chinese Communist government said. They had the kinds of relationships where people share information, than the direct connection back to the cdc so that you can sound an alarm early for the United States. Thats why organizations like the World Health Organization and activist International America get us. What the president has done with his America FirstNational Security strategy is back up away from those institutions to stop staffing them, stop funding them, they dont stop accruing just because we stop paying for it, the chinese and others move into leadership roles. So these organizations will be less help to us, will be more useful to our adversaries because of this selfdefeating policy on the president s part. Of course, is not just on the world stage, we have seen this a administration, i think you could really argue the duty of the federal government telling governors that it was up to them to find their own test in their own protective gear for nurses and doctors but in a way, going back to this idea that i know you written about, the brokenness of our federal system in the trust that is engendered in some ways and their local and state governments, isnt that a argument or the Current Situation and argument that the balls federal system, and you see this as a good thing in a way because we have seen leadership and is not just from democrats, look at mike in ohio and how far hes taken things prior to the president through giving permission. Yes i was going to say yes but but yes and it is striking that mike dewine, republican of ohio may have been along with gavin newsom, the demo