On the community and society at large. Its also part of the clubs future of democracy efforts. With Additional Support from the zuckerberg initiative. We are so grateful for the support and hopefully others will follow the examples. I am personally thrilled to have those two experts on a lot of things including the effects of covid19 and what it may have democracy here in the u. S. With the recent bestseller. James, thank you so much for being here. Corey is the director of the American Enterprise institute. She has have in the press of career which is taking her to the International Institute for strategic studies in london. The hoover institution. Where i remember her from in the bay bay area. Bay area. In the department of defense. Thank you so much for your time. Its a great pleasure. Also to our audience for joining us. We do want into your questions as part of this conversation. You could submit them in the text chat. I will be giving those questions as they work some into the conversation. I thought was sort of start big picture and then come down to earth. To get started can you give us a sense of how you think broadly democracy around the globe is doing in this crisis. It is generally the slow to organized slow to Decisive Action but they are also the Political Science research is on this. Its more enduring. In a way that authoritarian governments dont have if you look at the repressive miss that the government of china has been forced with lockdown. And the unwillingness to share information. In the way that that would have prepared that. Compare that to taiwan and south in south korea and japan where you have broad public voluntary compliance with what the government wants to do. And over longer times. It is not government height. The example. With the american government. To organize and prepare and to bring federal authorities in resources there. Its not the government type. They are doing great at it. It sure doesnt matter. Do you feel like this is challenging democratic systems in any way. Or do you agree that we are better prepared in many ways because of that buyin and that trust that you may not had in a place like china or iran . I think one of the lessons of my very long life as a reporter is that contradictory things are all true. One bit of stage business here. Two recognize the importance of the commonwealth and what it stands for and what it does. And what you do there. Of corey herself. And what shes doing aei. We come from different political tradition. But the way they are trying to hold todays governance to classic conservative standards its really important. It is fun to make sure that we noted that. I actually mean it. All of the institutions involved here. Let me just talk about two countries one briefly about china and the u. S. What kori was sane. It is impressive how the show with the system and some of its strength. By brute force china has actually put it there. The idea that it stopped is hard to imagine that will stand up the reports i get from friends in china is there is some sense of National Solidarity and pride that has come through the way in which they were ravaged by this early this year and has gotten it somewhat under control. A terrible price. And both domestically and internationally. It struck me in the u. S. The National Government has failed as dramatically as it possibly could and one of the main themes that my wife deb and i had been making. Some sessions we did in particular is that at this moment of chronic weakness and failure in the National Government we have a city governments and mayors and regional coalitions and state governors and civic organizations still been vital this is not a Silver Lining moment for the u. S. It is a Terrible Health catastrophe that we are living through. Most of them. They have emerged to reflect the way we like the u. S. To respond that has been striking and something i hope we can build with. That is something you had been thinking about prior to this crisis it does speak to the immediacy of government. It is a balance between Civil Liberties. With those types of authoritarian governments. They have much more aggressive tactics in terms of tracking people ensuring that their citizens are doing what they need too. We are obviously far behind on a lot of areas. How you are thinking about that. If we are striking the right balance here in the United States. I think nobody looking back from the future is going to be satisfied or pleased about many things the u. S. Is different dash my doing. Significantly region by region. I think that is the most heartening news. Both in the west coast and new england. And now in the great lakes. The regional compacts coming together. Two recognize the questions of scale there it is essentially like part of los angeles or the city of San Francisco where they effective authoritarian situation. It was protective of some Civil Liberties but not all. South korea is a more free swinging place. They still have authoritarianism in their more recent past than the u. S. Has. Its also more concentrated than the u. S. I think we can admire the tactics we use. And im sure we wouldve been astonished to think that the mayors of San Francisco in chicago and los angeles and then belatedly new york were imposing what we think of as quite strict requirements out of keeping with the liberal image of those cities. One of the tasks over the next month or two or youre a two is evolving towards the acceptable balance among the economic damage that is profound the privacy interest that we all head. And the Public Health interest. I had been reading once again the plague by albert camus these are longterm questions that the public has dealt with. What he think about that. Is this a moment where we are giving up some of our simple live dash mike Civil Liberties. They are hand in hand together. Or do we need to be cautious as citizens like contract tracing. To let people travel. You can see the Public Health benefits of those things i would not expect that they would just cover it for my entire adult life. If its a National Security strategy or Public Health strategy that cuts against the grain of who they are. We are not norway or singapore. They deeply distrust their own governments and very often with good reason. If you look at the way information gathers by Police Forces what free societies are good at. And what they do in their lab. Arguing these things through and balancing. To complement my eyes all is all of that symbol liberties to complement all of the Civil Liberties. These are good thoughtful entrances to it. The university of Texas Law School professor has a terrific piece about how to hit a balance that permits protecting the common good of Public Health without too large a compromise. We did not even have the argument about where the tradeoffs will be. In which set of risk we prefer. But thats what we are good at. To add onto what corey is saying. An important point about this trade off it now is that if we tried to make the tradeoff for more Public Health knowledge in the past month it would not had done any good because we have no test the South Koreans for example have a very elaborate contact tracing. The chinese were doing it a different way. It is an argument that if you had been much more effective in the last month. The other thing i just wanted to say reinforcing koris point that we do have realtime experiments going around across the country. New york versus San Francisco i think we are having a realtime experiment we wont know much more about what is working out. I wanted to get on what the longterm geopolitical outcomes of this as we are trying to grapple with what is happening at home people like Vladimir Putin are still doing what they are doing and im wondering looking at china and russia where is your eye towards or is it too early to tell. I had been surprised that the adversaries have not been more aggressive in finding ways to use a moment not just our internal focus but this is the first time in 75 years that there has been a Major International crisis and the United States has not stepped forward to argue about what we need to be doing to organize other countries in support of a Common Objective into slow resources and to figure out a way to cooperate in advance the common good. I think one of the enormous risks that the United States is running is not that our adversaries are being so fleet footed if you look at the way that the Chinese Government has tried to propagandize their success. It is just under reminding all of us. But the United States is failing that everybody had expected the United States to take responsibility for that everybody including is better off when we do that. So the first big consequence is the potential. We are seeing for the first time what the America First strategy looks like its a much more dangerous and deadly and costly international order. The second big consequence i think we are seeing is the strain that the European Monetary Union is under. 67 percent of italians now disapprove of the european union. And everyone is waiting for germany who has been one of the main beneficiaries of the Monetary Union to relax its concern about deficit spending about risks of bonds across the very different economy. I really think either germany steps forward to further unify us or the european unification effort will fragment and the third Bank International consequence is so far only the great powers of the wealthy state have really been hit by this. Countries that had people that travel in long large numbers. But when this migrates to countries that dont had welldeveloped Public Health systems this is gonna be a disaster even more outside proportions than we have seen in the United States and other countries to have that had welldeveloped Public Health systems. We are not doing nearly enough. Its not just about their welfare and interest but we cant actually protect ourselves they are going to be second and third integrations. In helping raise the Public Health standards everywhere if we expect to be safe ourselves. You think about trump and a lot of his critics have accused them of tendencies. At least for part of this response. I know corey you talked about this too. At the same time as we have pulled back from the rest of the world we are now having to go to them and ask for help because we dont have these systems in place. Then the gutting of the places like the cdc. It seems very the opposite of what some people are worried that trump might do in a moment like this. I think of the distinction between personal authoritarianism and governmental effectiveness. A very strong willed leader. It was during that area where they have that. It was highminded and effective. At least they argued a public good. In this case in the current administration. I would again in sync with what corey is saying. We have these two different timelines all of the countries you would expect to be setting some kind of example our themselves really wall ovary. They have the crisis. The uk is that terrible state. Almost as much as italy. Sweden and the moral role has its own problems. The only political state you could say. They are a small place not and it is obvious. So right at the moment you have the traditional suspects and they are struggling with their own problems. There is the medium term. The rest of this year the spring and summer into fall. As kori has written recently and the atlantic. The International Institutions. And now calling on them for help. Why should we be helping you when you had been trotting all over us. Then there is the time after this fall election i think there is a lastingly differently view from the rest of the world. Whether the u. S. Ratifies the America First policy or changes the America First policy. To me there are different trenches right now. Nobody is in a good position to say listen to us except the South Koreans and in the taiwanese. Threemac can i give an example that reinforces this point. The United States has been in negotiations with south korea about cost sharing of the deployment for the 35,000 or so american troops that are stationed in south korea. In just about the very day President Trump wrote the president of south korea asking for them to ship us medical equipment because President Trump was demanded a fivefold increase in what south korea pays the United States we were turning away at the South Koreans who work on American Military bases making them less militarily capable and making us really crummy allies at the same time. At the same time we were asking them to give us lifesaving health. If i could make one other point in answer to your question. I like the distinctions that they make between personal authoritarianism and the ability to work the machinery of government. It has been astonishing to me that President Trump and the men who have been so ruthlessly inventive and finding in finding ways to get around the norm and in some instances like diverting spending. The red lines as president ial behavior. This administration has brought none of that kind of fourth to using an imperial imperial presidency to protect the lives of americans. I just dont get it. I think we could all make something up. I think i just want to know that as we had been talking here i sought the president that he is suspending all funding to the World Health Organization i bit my tongue before responding. Should i make a more high road point. Corey was talking about the way in which an administration i will circle back around. To my mind the most important essay in american political history is one that came out 110 years ago. I was at the Commonwealth Club a couple years ago with my wife. The argument was looking back on the civil war it was the most horrible episode in American History with still more lives lost. All of the rest of our wars combined. And yet William James said the personal courage and the sense of the greater good the Political Leadership with Abraham Lincoln and his associates. The better part of human character. In the american ideals were also evoked by the worst event in our history. William james said the permanent struggle for society to enlist the better parts of the behavior. Since the history of that time. It has been military challenges themselves. People have been able to say we will all pull together. Or i would argue it has been Public Health challenges when i was a little kid it was actually the time of the polio vaccine. It was a sense that you have to stay home and not to go swimming in the summer. There had been other times where Public Health has been a moral equivalent of war and maybe that is something we will see here. The economic devastation that is happening now and the constraints on all of us. If there was some greater good we are serving as a part of the american tradition that connects to intercede on the World Health Organization will not help that occur in my view. What with american engaged internationally. Gets us and what International Institution that are our Early Morning network out of the world. What that gets us is strategic death. The ability to understand the problems before americans start dying from them. In the center for Disease Control used to find the position for an american dr. Inside the Chinese Governmental health network. And that was an extraordinarily good use of american tax dollars. That person knew what was happening no matter what the Chinese Communist government said. They have the kind of relationships where people shared information they have the direct connections back to the cdc so that you could sound an alarm early for the United States. That is what the organizations like the World Health Organization what the president has done with his America First