You want to send in at any point you will see a q a box down at the bottom right of your screen. You can send us a question in the latter part of this event, alex will answer some of them. So to start us off, as im sure many of you know is a Research Director of the Great Program of extremism at George Washington university which has become the go to resource for many people studying this topic. And so why dont we start by asking how you came to take an interest in Anwar Alawlaki and maybe you can fill us in a little bit on the background as you explain that. Guest thank you scott thanks for doing this we had the shared interest of the New York Times in particular the back in the two thousands in the last decade were incredibly helpful for me and that is the book objective choice and my pleasure to do this. So this came across my radar in around 2007. I just started as a junior researcher, looking at activism and jihad in the uk in particular. As a look at the individuals and networks in the uk, this name just kept coming up as a reference or a speaker who is being hosted at this point from yemen where he was. He also spent some time in the uk. At least a year. I was in the early 2000 so he was this known figure. It just became clear to me, by the end of the last decade in 2,082,009 that the sky was perhaps the most influential speaker for a range of different activists. Those from islam, those not necessarily jihad but had an over worldview. And so he was having this wide appeal. I just started following everything he was saying and doing look at the people who were his followers and attending events where he was being screened and live streams in london stay when you actually heard them speaking live . Guest yes one Community Center. That to know about him so well spent time trying to get the authorities to become more aware of the fact there is a guy by this point was premature reaching that jihad. He was beamed through live stream into traditional muslims and the mosques and he was running courses through video at a Community Center in south london which i cover in the book and i interview people who were involved with trying to get that stopped, involved with going ahead. It was just this kind of it slowly became an obsession i guess. That manifested into me doing a phd on him in college. That was some 2010 to run 2014. And slowly that kind of became this book which is taken us a little large amount of time to publish mostly my fault. So, this is a guy who spent almost exactly half of his 40 years he lived in the u. S. And half abroad most of that in yemen. Why dont you, its interesting you call this is western jihad. Why dont you walk us through a somewhat unusual biography and tell us what his connections were too yemen, what his connections were to the yet u. S. And the uk. I think one of the things i mentioned early on was the biographical story of Anwar Alawlaki had been done and largely by yourself. There is already a good biography of him. So while there is some components of biography in the book is mostly presented as an intellectual history. I have to map his own evolution and place him there merging in the west and then as well as understanding his own intellectual history, explaining how and why you such an effective communicator. That is what the book tries to do. So we can start with Anwar Alawlakis early career in colorado. He was a preacher there at least one small local area. Very soon into his work it became clear that he had an ability he had an ability and doing things that preachers were not doing up at times that expense part of the popularity. He was tracked basically almost all of his early work life of the prophets life of mohammed. Most of things he was famous for early that time are referred to as basically historical accounts. Mostly with the prophet but his companion. And these are the second most important primary text. Theyre less reliable than historical accounts which brings together a lot of different sources and the history. Thats pretty much all his work really was. It was the translations of previous existing history into english not just putting them in english to make them available to westerns. Speaking to a lot of pretty influential preachers in america and others no one had done this for. No one in america and english had translated these and made them available. He got the attention of saudi businessmen and package them effectively and get them out. So in the small world of islamic bookstores sort of the bestselling kind of a bestseller on cd. This is a guy who kind of grabbed the latest technology for reaching his audience. These were essentially the islamic equivalent of bible stories youre collaborating on. Storage might take the Old Testament with the battles and heroes. And he had a knack for storytelling in that way. Guest yes storytelling is a big part of his overall success which i get into later. You have to understand islam in america at the time and how it was being disseminated pretty conservative islamic american bird really at the time the way it would work as youd have the conference on the east coast or west coast, california, d. C. , new york, new jersey, these were conferences where people would congregate a lot of preachers would sell their work usually with audiotapes back then, recorded audio tapes. Spoke for people who work for company that had a rocky stuff. Most of the stuff looked was raggedy, old, tapes in unmarked cases things were passed around when someone moved or to shabby stall at a conference. The saudi businessmen completely revolutionized that whole industry. Not only did he get on cd he packaged it the actual packaging was really professional, high budget. In this stall itself with the best looking stall in the place theres a Big Marketing push behind some of his saudi charisma and the potential i had. So purely from those kind of logistical parts of how it was presented in america the time is very quick to become the bestknown, best disseminated. C1 so at that time, we think of this guy now as a leader of al qaeda, someone who endorsed violence someone who is a major terrorist. Back then, that is not who he was. But why dont you try to place him in the kind of world of western islam of american islam, ideologically at that time was he radical . No i dont think id put them down as a radical. I think again to give you a quick overview of what islam looked like when i rocky emerged part of what the book does is it tracks across the spectrum we can roughly describe the thoughts. So physically he presented the way he dressed in the robes the type of beard he had he presented himself. Why argue essentially its in the u. S. This emerged in the u. S. Some ive managed to identify in the late 70s early 80s. I had with this initially had was nonpolitical non activists. I was very concerned with very indepth study, no real engagement with politics of the outside world really are geopolitics or any of that. Taking their line from a selective handful shakes their having that into america. The sentiment organization spoke to people who are members of that movement and group of since moved on or are still in it. Really the request was your gonna calm, study with will have conferences going to create a very closed community and we are not going to engage with politics or activism. And thats what we see the time customer to max one of the really revealing things is he was not in that qs s is divided into three categories very simply passive is this a lot of detail in that but we dont have the time for it now. In america, the quiet ism came to uss soon in the 90s i knew organization emerged call the Islamic Association of north america. That was seen in the american of activism. There also engaging in politics were an gaging with why and who we were discussing with muslims and they risk ignoring that they are saying dont think about fighting them when you havent learned a person in the activists are saying we knew to employ method as it has some type of activism and engagement with the outside world. But still a lot of studies are required theologically movement. Iraqi emerges with qs s vying for influence and attention. And he kind of offers this new way which is really engaging with politics and society. It is using theology and making it relevant. Theres no real indepth study. , their narrative accounts and very engaging and very well translated. So i rocky offered this lights interviewed two made the first time with iraq in that way. He was relying on the what he was relying on hes going into depth on creativity and theology. This made him a unique proposition for a lot of people part. This was big like you just mention this is the big mosque in virginia right across the potomac from washington where he got quite a following, was quite a successful young kind of hotshot. And then along comes 911. Some of our audience may be old enough to remember where he got quite a bit of attention from the fbi because two of the hijackers had been in his mosque in san diego. After he moved to washington and Virginia Third showed up. So they kind of wondered what was the connection there. So, take us from what happened after 911 to his departure in his life overseas . The fact that this allows them to place him a little earlier there are many different types of mosques in american theyre pretty identifiable. You have mosques that are very specific theyre usually quite close to the saudi kingdom they present physically in the way it demands it. Sometimes theres more closely associated with the muslim brotherhood. The hindu mosque is really a sort of brotherhood influenced mosque. The fact that he was at that mosque a sign, this is coming from said you dont go there unless you have influence in your thinking. We dont just hire and let people get. So i rocky kept the defusing of america of draft and presentation with i place them somewhere in this category. 911 happens he becomes one of the go to voices looking to hear more about islam. Lets not forget, people know about the religion a lot more than they did back then. When 911 happened the idea was still kind of a mystery for a lot of people. I was in my teens, i went to a multicultural school. I do pretty good idea but it was not by any means one that we knew much about. And so there is an attempt to find the guy who could link it altogether. He was interviewed and became public is fairly critical of al qaeda it received a lot of attention and praise as a result. But, one of the things the book does of the first couple sections are divided into his early work and later work. His early work at this time had small clues and it about the influences that he was under. And the direction he may go in depending on how it unfolds. Think one of the ways it becomes cured is it signified he was a pretty big fan who wants to impede could have been the former leader and Anwar Alawlaki founded that group. This was all he was in the u. S. . Guest yes, yes. There are things he was saying he was using their coming straight in one of the first big for me was when it was mainstream as his endorsement the version of the world is in a state of ignorance because it is not being run by islamic law. He was using an interpretation very early on in his career. This in number of other examples in the early work. Their sources one could only had found in the work. You see the influence they would repeatedly say to me the early 90s an early 2000 i was told this by a lot of different americans who were very worried about him and said we kept hearing this. The way he justifies that bombing is the way it had just recently been justified, very important saudi al qaeda member. Very quickly said suicide bombings are legitimate, took a couple of stories to prove this. Which i cant go into now. I rocky was relying on that in the early 2000s or late 90s to say actually this is justification for suicide bombing not telling anyone to do that but saying that early on when 911 happens, and a new option emerged for iraqi as well. I think that it kind of he kinda gravitated towards other options perhaps had dissipated. And the thing about activists, is that what ever happens outside in the world, their belief, their creed, their ideology does not change neither does their methodology. So how they practiced their methodology is subject to undulation of geopolitics. See a lot moved to jihadism and his predecessors in Northern Virginia. Durg that pe, during 911 on you mentioned a lot of American Media rushed to this speaker of american english can still find the later lita tran leader of al qaeda in his basement explains ramadan to the americans. But even then, when he condemned the 911 attacks, he always tried to balance it and say just as it is wrong for america to be bombing women and children and afghanistan, it was wrong for al qaeda to attack on 911. He was always doing this sort of balancing act at that time. So he leaves the u. S. He leaves the u. S. Under a number of clouds and lease u. S. Angry what happened after that time a lot of federal agencies turn their attention to islamic activism and in the United States. One major operation that took place, when they are still in Northern Virginia was the operation to shut down a number of Islamic Charities that were accused by the fbi and other further real agencies and funding groups theres a lot of door knocking down a people be arrested. I rocky saw this as a first step with an increased effort this is proof the idea of award islam is from the start the idea of the west is an inherent threat to islam from the start in his work. It is not a culture of america with motivation and all that was not seen as a benign thing in his eye islamic identity in it was an attempt to ruin all that. So he leaves america after given is very impactful decision. He goes to the uk and again the book, its mapping out what american islam look like at the time and really as i describe it its a fairly dark. In short of sort history of the relationship and why the society. We are gearing up towards we were already in afghanistan. Theres a lot of attention on muslim anyway we were couple away entrant years away from the attack. Were gearing up to getting to iraq. And london famously the venue of one of the biggest protests in the history of the city. Theres a lot of mobilization. There is a lot of opportunity for activist organizations to really inflame things. And create division and recruit on the back of it. So activism in the uk when they went there was really brazen there were a few quotes in it, in the book from the kind of stuff mainstream organizations were saying back then. Seems like threatening to stop cooperating with the police if certain demands were not met, making claims that wanting to establish was a lip not a legitimate mainstream all this stuff. That was quite different from the world he left in america. They were on the defensive after 911, they knew they were being watched very carefully. And if anything it was a rally around mainstream to keep from being singled out and attacked. It was towards radicalism right customer somatic yes. Bigtime open support for defensive jihad saying if the uk invades iraq, it will be justified for british soldiers to be killed. I would just redo a Statement Given out by the Student Islamic society. Which today is a mainstream solid organization sorbate Umbrella Group have big fans of iraqi when they came to england they hosted around in the one i work at kings college. This is a statement they put out i will read part of it is eventually saying muslims are being demonized wheres previously it was muslims themselves under attack now the agenda is to attack islams principles values and political system they are under attack. Again, this is as an Islamic Organization saying the idea of islam is a political system and it should be established. Its a completely straightforward mainstream idea. Now the age of isis that is quite a shocking thing. Imagine student saying that today. That is the kind of stuff they were saying then. Gives the couple speeches including one that was very influential mosque this openly influenced by the islamic and handing out books. He gives a speech where they have this in the uk it was heavyhanded Police Action undoubtedly. He had been arrested and roughed up by the police on suspicion of character. His Campaign Group emerged outside of that. Which again i think was fair enough to an extent paying compensation for all of this. In the campaign emerges called stop police terror. And part of the campaign was part of the threat if thats of the police do not stop terrorizing muslims, if they dont stop, we will stop cooperating. I rocky gives this speech at the campaign where he presents a war on islam that is happening in the uk. So one of the key things one thing to spend to the war on islam they personalize the war for westerners. That meant the iraq war, the israel, palestine, afghanistan, its not hard to sell the this war to summon his family was just killed. Harder to sell to islams who are fairly well off and relatively happy and mostly in western countries. Big part of his job was to make it a reality by using examples, things are happening in the country but he took a number of examples and other recent things attempted by the British Government to extend the amount time you can hold someone on terrorist were sufficient without charge. All of this stuff was in there he knew it was in there with the concern and he plaited up to say luck actually, the crowds are forming around being muslim in the west britain going to give you all these examples. So he does that. Alex lemay interrupt for just one second to say, to tell those who did not hear me say this before, if you question you can click on the q a button down the lower right of your screen prayed rightly question for us. In the latter part of this presentation we will turn to those questions and alex will answer as many as we have time for. So, what happened to my rockies output at that time . In those years when he was in the uk . And then when he moved to yemen after a year or two in the uk. Was he continuing was at the bestseller of a box sets of stories of the prophets and so on. What had happened to his outputs . And was he finding an audience beyond the basement of the east London