Ordinarily we come to you live in person at 184 184 south chal in decatur georgia. We are now the new school for scott comes but during the current fiber, to life from my home office in atlanta, georgia. We have been doing a whole series of Educational Programs that fall under our mission of fostering sustainable commutes him working for social justice and encouraging the expression diverse and marginalized voices all through these virtual formats. We feel very fortunate we have a prototalking to authors who lived all over the country during this time. We feel it is really, really, really significant that we continue to do the programming that we already have scheduled. Because folks need history as we move through this historic time. Theres really no, i can think of no better book to help us focus on what the movement for black lights needs right now, what we can do to contribute right now in this book, race man julian bond selected works, 19602015. We have the editor here, michael long and pam horowitz who is julian bonds lifelong collaborator for justice and his widow we hope will be up soon. Shes having some technical difficulties but again i want to invite you to settle in, make yourself at home. We would get to some question and answer in the chat but please keep your phone on me. You dont have to turn your camera on but were just going to enjoy some time with michael and hopefully get pam on political. Please welcome michael long. Michael is of the editor multiple books, and one of my favorites, a really important collective works of i want to just go ahead and bring it on, michael. So if folks will switch their view from tao the review to speak of you, and michael starts talking, he will be on speak of you and you will take up the screen. Please welcome michael long. Thank you. Its good to do with all of you. Can you alter me okay . , coming through in the . You sound great. Okay great. I scheduled the format to be with pam in dialogue, so since she started at the bit of a struggle for me but we can adjust and move along organically as we possibly can. E. R. Suggested a begin with a bit of a reading from [inaudible] by the way, i lived in atlanta for several years. Graduated from university and i love the city quite a bit. Hey, i see pam has joined us. She is here. Pam, its good to see you. Welcome aboard. How do we do this . Is there a split screen . Or does the person speaking speech the person speaking on the screen so if everybody turns the camera on speak of you as opposed to on gala review, you will switch automatically between speakers and which is the most fluid way to do it. Okay great. Everybody got that . Super. Pam, welcome. Its good to have you with us. Thank you. I thought we would begin by talking about the george floyd protests. It seems timely to say the least. Ive been thinking a lot about julian bond and wired rustin a dr. King during this time. I thought i would begin perhaps with the reading from julian bonds essay from my goodness, this must be the early 1970s although i dont have the date right in front of me. But its about violence and modestly but who is find an american who is not. Maybe we can go to the george floyd protester. What page are you on . [inaudible] race man julian bond selected works, 19602015, and ill be reading from pages 5657. Im right at the end of page 56. We need to discover who is and who isnt violent in america. Violence is black children going to school for 12 years and receiving five years of education. Violence is 30 million [inaudible] on earth. Violence is having black people disproportionate share in vietnam violence is a country where more than people. Violence is an economy i love this phrase come socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Violence is bending 900 a person at only 77 a year to feed the hundred people at home. Violence is spending 78 billion to kill and 12 12 billion toe call. Violence is 6000 American Farmers receiving not to work. Violence is Richard Nixon and spiro agnew and going the expression of piece of nights of americans, and the list goes on. What bond is doing is trying to understand that you expand our understanding of the meaning of violence we dont restrict it to things like violent rising, so we dont restrict it to physical force. [inaudible] of violence and seat is a very broad term. Its interesting that she started with that because obviously when you put this book together you could not have known what we were all going to be facing now. Even this event was put together can we did know what would be facing now. So for me the book is more resonant than ever, although since White Supremacy and Racial Discrimination is in our countries dna, its not surprising that many things julian said many years ago resonate today. But when you said a broad definition of nonviolence, i went to page 230 which is saying we must be careful not to define the ideology and practice of White Supremacy too narrowly. Scrawled graffiti and individual indignity such as the placements nightstick or the jobs, home and education denied. It is rooted deeply in the logic of our market system and the culturally defined and politically enforced crisis paid by different units of labor. And then theres also, the one of the last speeches he gave he talked about we practice dissent then, we must practice this another a nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense that the programs of social uplifting is approaching spiritual death. And then he ends with the present crisis which is one of, was a favorite of his and is one of my favorites. All of that is just today. So historians dont like to answer questions like this, pam, but when you think about julian and when you think about the george floyd protest going on now, how do you think he would respond . I think he would be delighted. He would have been upset at the violence and lawlessness, as we all were, because it detracted from the message of the protests. But he was, you know, black lives matter, mattered while e was still alive. He was very admiring of that movement. He saw himself in sncc and black lives matter so he waited see himself and sncc in the spirit and i think he would think that we are in a moment, partly, i mean, its a trifecta i think because we had the pandemic, the we had police killings, and we have a president , who is making everything worse. And so here we are. All of that i think is uniting to allow a moment when there might really be some significant change. Thats going back through his readings about violence and riots, it seems to me he wasnt opposed to much principal ground. He clearly problematic because he believed in the inherent dignity of everyone. But when issues about the trouble nature of Police Officers or the destruction of property in one statement. Would you agree [inaudible] would you agree it was supposed to violent so much of principle pragmatic grounds . Does that make sense to you . Julian . Yeah. Yes. I think there were two views of violence, at least two in sncc and one was it was a tactic, for some it was a tactic and for others it was a philosophy of life. And for julian a was definitely the former and not the latter. He supported people who engaged in selfdefense back then, and there was a case involving the naacp and the leader in North Carolina who was thrown out of the naacp, and julian always opposed that. And now we know, im income i think they had some inkling at the time but now we know how many people really were armed during the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s. Charlie cobb wrote the book, this nonviolent thing will get you killed, and julian had a couple of experiences during the movement with people who had everybody had guns. Partly it was the south and it was a cultural thing, and it was a protective thing. We used to talk about how amazing it was that there was never just a fullscale shootout somewhere, and that they were able to maintain a nonviolent movement. And the strength it took to do that. It didnt make them and made them incredibly courageous. I do want to steer too much into Bayard Rustin but hes a favorite of man and i know of julians as well. He was in my coming i can 56 when dr. King had armed bodyguards and him. Dr. King had guns of zone. Dr. King wasnt initially a pacifist. Its interesting to me. I was wondering whether julian ever confessed to having carried a gun during no. I know he never did. In fact, it was very funny because whats the name of the black panther guy from the west coast . He came to visit atlanta, and julian was supposed to drive him around, so we decided that he should have a gun because he would expect the black panther would expect julian to have gun so somehow, i dont know if his brother james found the gun, but somewhere there was a gun and was like this rusted thing that it probably never been shot, or a least but it put that on like the dashboard of the car to impress the panthers. [laughing] julian never touched a gun. Okay. You know, whats interesting to me is that when he was just beginning in sncc, he described itself as a pacifist and he actually traced some of that to his roots at the Georgia School in pennsylvania. By the way, a buddy, im comig from pennsylvania and pam is coming from northwest washington, d. C. [inaudible] come from San Francisco i believe and thanks to steve from city lights books for being with us and for helping to arrange this. He the initially describe itsels a pacifist, which i found really weird. I think i think was because he was opposed to the war in vietnam and that was the war that was happening then, editing as time went on he realized he probably didnt really qualify as a pacifist in the proper sense of the term. When he was called before the draft board and they called his name, and the draft board person said, i know all about you. Youre one of those sick downers and then he says, you will never get in this mans army. Classic. And, of course, that was great. He acted as if that was some sort of punishment. But they made him, it was not, they classified in as mentally unfit. Oh, okay. Not morally unfit. Wow. So we didnt serve in the military at all, and throughout the rest of his life would call those who are usually supported and led wars, draftdodgers, george w. Bush. So maybe we can go back to the beginning. Look, let me say we are right now and then ill go back to the beginning. But had he continued the trajectory of thought, what you think is assessment would be right now of the trump era and the trump years . I think you would be appalled. Trump, the republican field had been formed in at least one debate before julian died. So we had watched that, and there were as you will recall many people, 17 or 18 or so when they started, and like most people, julian did not take trump seriously and did not think he was a serious option as the party nominee. From day one he would have been appalled, you know, trump was first elected and lots of people said to me, well, what would julian think . What would julian say . And i said from the beginning that he would say dont agonize. Organize. He would have been geared towards making sure that he was a oneterm president. But i dont think any of us, well, i cant speak for him or even the rest of us, but i did not imagine that it could be this appalling. Every day, i mean, today to decide that the 75yearold in buffalo is, you know, antifa, a provocateur. Its like he outdoes himself on a daily basis. And julian in his standard speech that he was giving for the last three or four years had a line about one party is a spineless and the other party is shameless. And they still are. It was a true then and it is true now. He would also be i think quite disappointed in his own party. He wrote this one piece in the 70s and says that come in the piece, that in the back pocket of either party . Should have independent politics, as he put it, independent politics and it would be a mistake for them to lose leverage by identifying with the Democratic Party so much or with the republican party, wasnt a real option at that time. I found it interesting democrat almost or when initially ran for office, wasnt sure which party to register with. His father was a republican. Right. That was when there were not just decent republicans but black republicans. [inaudible] right. But very early in julians career, you know, with nixons southern strategy use where the party was going and how i wanted to get there. There has really never been an option. Ideally, and julian spoke about this, you would have both parties vying for the black vote and then you would have more to show for it. Thats not been the case in the last, what, at least 50 years. Right. Youll have to forgive me for wearing a hat tonight but i did, the what i chose was 42, jackie robinson. Like bond he had what he called [inaudible] for for a particular party intoa black folks to determine which candidate or party best advanced like interest. Thats sort of the dream with the notion that bond had. At least in the late 60s, the early 70s before the southern strategy that pam is talking about. [inaudible] i know he agonize over that. He sort of chewed up the and gave the speech and said the rage that was expressed following the kennedy shooting was good but nobody transferred that are transitioned it or morphed it into an organization that had policy goals. Julie and it seems he was alwas about not only protests but moving protests to politics. Can you comment on that . Well, that was a big subject of debate among sncc people. Sncc discussed it endlessly as they discussed most things, and argued. There was a lot of discussion and argument about whether julian should run for the legislature because that was not seen by some as being coopted and not, you know, turning his back on the movement, and what can you accomplish in elective politics . And so a decision was made obviously that it was a good idea, and sncc people ran his campaign and they were pretty strategic about how they ran sncc, and how they handled his campaign. And so the whole idea of running for office was that youre going to accomplish something, and that you had an agenda. And in his case come his First Campaign was really what is still, they say, the most workable way to get votes, and that was to knock on peoples doors and introduce yourself and find out what the people were thinking, what the people wanted. That was his, thats what he did and that was his initial platform anything thats how he approached politics and Political Office his whole political career. Its interesting, everybody. By the way, sncc stands for studentr Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and will get into a little bit more but when bond was running for office, as pam says he would show up at peoples houses and his assistants or people tagging along with him would have cases of cocacola and they would go into the backyard of neighbors and if everything worked out okay it would be a barbecue, it would invite the neighbors and bond would say whats wrong with politics and what would you like to see accomplished . He would take that and put into his platform. It was the neighbor platform, which is a beautiful way to run, resident present your platform to your neighborhood. You can meet your neighbors and develop your platform from there. Lets go back to the beginning. Most of you know the history well, but could you sketch some of the Family History and maybe tie it to why or the reasons why julie became a civil rights activist . Maybe you could talk us through all of his Family History. Michael and pam, before you Start Talking im going to ask you, if youre in between talking and listening if you could meet your mic so when you are done speaking, mute your mic because we getting a lot of feedback on the line. Okay, sure. Pam, did you get my question . Yeah. Julians family on both sides was educated, and so education was seen as the way to a future, the way to health, the way to influence the race. His grandfather was actually a slave. He was born in 1863, and he, along the way he was born in kentucky. Thats where the colleges, and at some point he learned about maria, and julian always told the story about his grandfather whose name was james, the original james bond, took his tuition a steer and walked across kentucky to the college, and the college let him in. He could not read or write. He was 16. It took him many years to graduate, but when he did he gave the valedictory address and what on to get a theology degree. I always used to say that if you didnt have a doctorate in the bond family you considered under educated. They were all educated on his fathers side. His father himself became, graduated from college when he was like 16. 16. Got a doctorate at the university of chicago, became a noted educator named horace mann bond, did research that is still considered groundbreaking on education. He wrote his main book was called negro education in alabama. And then his mothers side was almost as educated, and she herself was a graduate of fisc who will come at the of 52 had a degree in Library Science and then worked as a librarian until she was 92. And debated whether not she should retire then decide that she would. It was a very distinguished family. When his father they can president of lincoln university, and lincoln was known as the black princeton at the time, his father was the first black president , because surely the white people who ran the school didnt think that there were any blacks who are good enough to preside over it, even though it was an all black student body. So you can imagine the politics of that, and doctor bond was not i with the ring persona. And so i know that it was, there were difficulties, but everybody came, everyone whos anyone, including Albert Einstein who, as you can imagine, was invited to speak on every College Campus of the United States and spoken very few but he made a point of wanting to go and did go to speak at lincoln. So julian met him, well, he was a very small boy, but the family lore, what julian always told about that was Albert Einstein said to julian, dont memorize anything thats already written down. It was something julian lived by the hole, his whole life. So it was a fabulously enriching environment, and then they sent julian to the schools were segregated in lincoln pennsylvania and so there were three kids and they sent all of them to private school, and julian went to as you mentioned