You retiring. Why . Guest ive had a great run and i been at his 22 22 years n the u. S. House, eight in the Oregon Legislature and im not one of those members leaving cranky and grumpy. Some days its messy. Ive had a good run pickup enjoyed but is time for someone new to step in. My wife and i ready to go take on some new challenge but of what ive no idea yet. Ive been so busy but its been a great run. We have gotten a lot done so i please with it. Host speaking about you regard as one of the Telecommunications Experts in the congress because of your background in radio and being on the emc committee. What your legacy in telecom medications . Guest thanks. I dont spend a lot of time on that sort of stuff but i would tell you together with the committee did great work of putting up spectrum. And really positioning the United States i think to have the spectrum when it needed it to advance the new technologies that come along. I remember going clear back to when we passed some of these laws, there were parts of the band nobody thought had much value that todays like the highest value real estate. As the brilliant Young American minds develop new technologies innovation, making should have access the spectrum is like build it and they will. Thats part of it. Implementing the 911 Commission Final recommendations to create firstnet and to fund it and make that available was really important for Public Safety officials and security of our country. That was critical. We got through the whole broadcast transition, certainly in terms of the repack and all pretty successfully. I know theres more we have worked on but those will be some of the highlights i think. Host to help us explore some of the unfinished issues is chris mills rodrigo of the hill. Thanks for having me. I wanted to start with some fairly big news that broke last night, obviously on twitter. There were several prominent accounts the recovery was including former president barack obama, the Presumptive Democratic comedy joe biden and accounts like apple and uber. I want to get your thoughts on this hack and what it means Going Forward for the security of platforms like twitter. Guest i think it once again you so to start by saying it can happen to barack obama, among others, they can happen at american anywhere anytime. We have become aware of that. We know that are bad actors out there. Some baby kids in the basement. Others may be russian intelligence services. You see those news reports today as well, that they had been hacking into our covid scientists and companies, which is really despicable. But we know this goes on. It goes on by the chinese. They goes on by the russians. It goes on by the iranians and north koreans, and you can go down a long list. It also speaks to the ports of making sure our Telecommunications Networks are a safe and secure as possible and then well get into some of the discussion, and each of us does things to secure our own systems. I remember i think it was the wannacry attack they discovered that part of the problem in some Healthcare Organizations was a had not provided the updates to think it was windows 95 or something. You have to go way back. There were just vulnerabilities in the system, things that couldve been patched, should have but were not. Its a big long array of issues when it gets into cybersecurity at the threats are real. We are all vulnerable amanita do more about it. That does leak into one of these Telecommunications Security questions which is earlier this week the United Kingdom reversed its decision allowing while weight into its noncore fudgy network. Seems like a big win for the United States that is been actively campaigning for our allies to avoid using the Chinese Company new networks. What are your thoughts on that . Guest im really pleased the United Kingdom took that step. I was surprised as part of five paise i said didnt do it sooner frankly. I was in beatings at nato and with various European Countries representatives in the last year where we had these discussions. It is stunning to me knowing what we know and knowing they know what we know to enlarge extent theyre not doing more to secure their networks from potential online activity. Certainly. Im glad they are making this decision, that they made this decision moving forward. We have work to do here. We have written and replaced bill that is no law. We need to get that funded so our Communications Networks here are safer and more secure. It seems like one of the steps that weve taken to secure American Networks to make the more is the u. S. Telecommunications act which would promote a shift toward an open network. Can you explain what that is for someone whos not involved in the Telecommunications Industry . Guest ill do my best and not get too deep into the weeds, but bottom line is it allows other entrepreneurs to work in this platform and continue to develop new systems, basically. So its not just the hardwired piece of equipment, if you will. It allows us to have more flexibility, more innovators and more ability to make sure that its dynamic and that we can develop a Communications Network and enhance and prove it all the time as opposed to having a piece of hardware in place that the owner can send you an update, shall we say, to change, and that update might not be what you want in that system but there you are, you are locked in. The concept makes a lot of sense going for. Im glad we moved that legislation out of the committee and i hope to see it become law. Do you see this as for American Companies to maybe catchup may not be the right term, but assert themselves in space of 5g which is been dominated i huawei and other companies . Guest youre right. Coming out of the meltdown economically around the world, thats when china really put its muscle behind huawei because of the thing over there is a stateowned enterprise one way or another that flows back into their whole military structure in funding. They have the ability to come in and theyre very bright, they steal the Technology Come up with that themselves and then y can undercut the market. I have people here in my own district say but its good equipment, it works well and its so reasonably priced. What a a great way to infiltra. I think Going Forward the extent to which we can get that equipment out of the systems, and and i would say not only compete on 5g, but leapfrogged whatever we call the next iteration, 6g, i dont care, is what we need to focus because where americas only already destined oce had an advantage is weve been able to leak in the next technology. If we lose that edge then were beholden to somebody else and right now that somebody else is basically china, and i dont think thats a good given what they are just done in hong kong, given their track record, everything we know about them. Thats a bad place for American Free societies to be, is the holding the chinese equipment beholden and everything that goes along with that. Host you mentioned 5g. We have seen to be on the cusp of getting into 5g. Are we still on the cusp . Guest thats a good question. I think were still on the cusp. They are making progress. They have been moving rapidly. I would say i think the merger with tmobile and sprint freed up the spectrum and capital and all, and i know that company, not to put them ahead of anybody else, but they really been aggressive about trying to move forward in this space, special in some of the rural areas but at t, verizon, the others are as well. Its essential but part of it was somewhat billed it as you go developing the technology and software, getting the towers up. Wheres theyre doing it seems to be deployed and working and now its a matter of getting it built out. They will continue to refine it and approve and enhance. I know that. I want us to being the lead. And by us sure it would be great if over all American Companies but at least lets make our allies and friends companies as well. So i think there are partnerships to had here internationally but certainly domestically we would like to continue to move forward. Weve got some catchup to do frankly in terms of making the spectrum fully available and understand the importance of getting it out there. And then getting the buildup going. He still hamper buildout through arcane, expensive overregulation by the federal government in siding and approval permitting processes. Host just to piggyback on an earlier question why chris, what do you think the reputation of Silicon Valley is right now in washington . Guest i think its twofold. One is theres great admiration for the innovation in the brilliance that just pulses in the Silicon Valley. I have been out there and toured a lot of companies, met with a lot of the leaders. Its so exciting to see whats been developed and what the future holds. Ill be careful how i say this and i will probably offend somebody, but theres also an arrogance that comes with that incredible productivity and innovation that tends to downplay the effect that they have on Public Policy and people who are engaged in Public Policy. When you are that good, that big, that strong, that innovative, sometimes you thik you can discard public reaction or political reaction. I was in a meeting with one of the ceos with the democrat friend and colleague of mine who said, basically you dont have any friends on capitol hill anymore. The right insurer biased in the left thinks that you are whatever. Thats a bad place to be and they dont have to be there. If there were more transparent, if there were more forthcoming and if consumers new what was really going on and had more choice in some speaking princely sum of the privacy issues and content issues, we had some proposals on those fronts, i think it would be in a better place. But they are new, exciting, rich, powerful, and every company that gets in that place in the eventually running into a Political Organization called the congress that goes hold on just a second, you dont get free reign. There are laws, there is public opinion. Thats kind of where they are at. Host chris mills rodrigo. Thats a Perfect Place to continue with the discussion of privacy. During the coronavirus and then theres been a lot of questions about Technology Companies having access to more Sensitive Data like health information. I know you and your colleagues in the energy and Commerce Committee and democrats have both introduced competing legislation on privacy related to coronavirus. Could you give us a bit of information about where youre at in the process and what the sticking points are as of now . Guest i wish we were farther along. Always easy when youre been the chairman and now as i call it chairman in exile permanently since im retiring. Heres what i wouldve done. Privacy wouldve been something that senator wicker and i wouldve joined focus on early on. We talked a lot about it and, of course, my party lost the majority and a lost the gavel but we were hoping to get ahead of what the california privacy law taking effect and look at what worked and didnt work there from our perspective and thing with gdpr. Youve got the whole european issue now as you know on data privacy. America should lead in the space. We should set a strong Privacy Protection for consumer law on the books. The longer we wait the more other governments, including the states, let alone foreign governments, are going to meander around in this space and youre going to all this patchwork of competing requirements. In america lead in this space, as we should, as we should have, then we can help set International Standards that protect privacy and protect freedom of speech and really empower our American Companies to lean back and say, hey, i got what you want me to do but im an american company. If i do that im in violation of american law and so, therefore, i cant do this. It would empower those executives and those teams to bring our vision of freedom in speech and protection into other areas where that just simply doesnt exist. We shouldve moved forward. We have had one hearing on privacy in this congress. We are basically at the end of this congress. We lost two years, and, unfortunately, now you more and more patchwork. Its pretty hard to go back. At the end of the day a lot of it has to do with private right of action, the trial bar and all of that. Thats the stumbling block on our Autonomous Vehicle legislation which we passed in the house when i was chairman unanimously, and nothing has moved in this congress. We ought to be leading on that. What do you think an Autonomous Vehicle really is . Its a computer on four wheels. It will be a data sharing device that takes you to a location but along the way is going to be accumulating data back and forth. Who do you want to set the standards and build that equipment . The United States or china . I would like the u. S. To lead in that. Its kind of interesting, you think about the telecom act and some of those laws were written in the 90s. Everything went silent, everybody stayed in own business and never that exist today. Theres a broad need for updating our laws and, in all of these spaces. You sort of mention the area i want to get next which is Autonomous Vehicles. It seems like ability to transform people that otherwise might not be able to get transported without exposing themselves. This wasnt very you mention committee has been working on for years. What steps in the process are you now . Guest well, there you go. Not very far down the road. Again, we have run into the liability issue and the trial lawyers. We had that worked out out in e house bill we passed two years ago, and guinea was done unanimously. There are ways to work through that i think. Its just nothing seems to be moving. Its really, really frustrating. To your point, chris, during covid i forgot what was but there was a hospital that was using basically unattended vehicles, capabilities, robot capabilities to move samples from wherever they were taking them from people being tested to wherever the test was being evaluated so you didnt have a human in that chain. Boy, you think about the future lies ahead with Autonomous Vehicle technology to save lives of accidents, by preventing them, by transporting people who cant otherwise or shouldnt otherwise drive themselves. Theres a whole host of incredible things coming down the pike. Again, if we had a national law to do, like we had in our built a couple years ago, we would be leading in the u. S. I fear were going to lose of this innovation edge if we dont have a National Standard. The administration has tried. I have worked with secretary chao and the president and others on this. They are doing what they can through the regulatory process, but theres only so much they can do there. Moving forward we can do a lot more legislatively. You sent a letter to the industry asking for input. What was the response like to that . Guest they gave us an good response back. I mean look, we want the vehicles themselves, we want to regulate how fast you go and there are certain things states can do. What they want is the ability to do the testing and the ability to have enough vehicles to really get them out there and test them, and at standards in place that we would have nhtsa and others set. They are looking for basic federal standardization so they can build whatever that standard is. I think you see that in the proposals we put forward to given that framework. Thats really what innovators need is give us the rules of the road and then let us go. Right now there are literally no rules on the road here to work for them in a meaningful way. Host go ahead, chris. Have you been seeing that lack of a federal law making study the development of these actual companies in the technology . Guest its always hard to say what wouldve happened if he didnt have Something Else and point to the absence of it. The short answer is yes. Its not that they are not working on the technology itself. Its about the deployment and all of that where they can really drive forward and test more rapidly. I think youre starting to see that happen more and other countries than here right now. But again youre not can hold back american and innovation genius. They will continue trying to tinker and toy and make things work. Its just we ought to have a streamlined process. We ought to have everybody understands as he said the rules of the road here, and our Autonomous Vehicle act would do that. Theyre still a chance to get something done there. Kathleen Morris Rogers is working on that but gosh, we are almost done with a twoyear process and we passed this i think it was two years ago in july out of the house unanimously. So the framework is there. To me that wouldve been one i wouldve said okay, lets go get that going as soon as the new congress starts. Remember, part of the fight was over heavy trucks. We didnt have jurisdiction over heavy trucks. Frankly that brought in a whole debate about drivers and unions that we avoided. We went as far as sort of pickup trucks, if you will come lightduty trucks. Heavyduty was over a Diffe