Under the Circle Mission with the Community Working for social justice and encouraging diverse and marginalized, all through the virtual formats, we feel very fortunate that we have the privilege of talking to authors who live around the country during this time and we feel it is really significant that we continue to do the programming that we are to have scheduled because folks need history as we move through this historic time. There is really no, i cannot give a better book to help us focus on what the movement on right now and what we can do right now, and the books of 1962 and 2015. We have the editor here, michael and pam who is a lifelong collaborator for justice in his widow we hope will be on soon, shes having technical difficulties. Im going to invite you to settling and make yourself at home and we will get to some questions in the chat, please keep your cell phone and you can turn your camera on, you do not have to turn it on but were just going to enjoy some time with michael and hopefully get p. M. On the line as well. Please welcome michael long, the editor of multiple books and one of my favorites, really important i want to just go ahead and bring you on michael. If you feel which review from gallery view to speak rebuke when michael starts talking, he will be on speaker and take up the screen. Please welcome michael long. Thank you, its good to be with all of you, can you hear me okay. You some great. I scheduled the format with pam in the dialogue, since shes not here its a bit of a trouble but we can adjust and move along as we possibly can. You are suggesting that i begin with a reading from the days in atlanta but i lived in atlanta for several years in Montgomery University and i love the city quite a bit and while i was there, pam has joined us. Pam, it is good to see you. How did we do this, is there a split screen or the person talking appears on the screen. The person who is speaking appears on the screen, if everybody turns her camera off exposed to gallery view, you will switch automatically between speakers which is the most fluid way to do it. Great. Super. Pam, welcome, its good to have you with us. I thought we would begin by talking about the george floyd protest. It seems untimely to say the least. Ive been thinking a lot about julian and doctor king during this period. I thought i would begin perhaps with a reading from julian bonds essay from oh my goodness, this must be the early 1970s although i dont have the date right in front of me. It is about violence and hes talking about whose violent american whos not. Let me read this and we can go to the protest from here. What page are you one. 56. 1952 2015 and ill read from page 56 to 57. And ill read at the end of page 56. We need to discover who is and who isnt violent in america. The violence of black children going to school for 12 years and receiving five years of education, violence is with her nation on earth and violence is a disproportionate share of vietnam into the country were property account more than people. Violence is an economy that believes, i love this phrase, socialism for the rich in capitalism for the poor. Violence is pending 900 for vietnams butt only 77 a year to feed the hungry people of their own, and 12 billion to make whole and violence is 6000 with 5000 of work. Violence is Richard Nixon ignoring the expression of pieced and the list goes on. But what im doing is trying to understand her understanding of the meaning of violence so we do not restrict it to the things like like force and with a view of violence in a very broad te term. It is interesting that he started with that because obviously when you put this book together, you could not of known what we were all going to be facing now. Even this event was put together, we did not know what we would be facing now and so for me, the book is more resonant than ever although White Supremacy and Racial Discrimination is in our countrys dna, it is not surprising that many things joanne said, many years ago resignation today, when you set a broad definition of nonviolence, i went to page 230 which is saying we must be careful not to define the ideology and practice of White Supremacy to nearly. Then scroll graffiti in individual indignity such as the policeman nightstick or the jobs home and education denied, it is rooted deeply in the logic of our market system in the culturally defined and politically enforced different labor. And then one of the last pieces that he gave, he talked about repractice dissent and lets practice descent now, nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military than on programs then crossing spiritual death, and then he ends with a crisis which is a favorite of his and one of my favorites. All of that, today. Historians do not like to answer questions like this. When you think about julian and the george floyd protest going down, how do you think you would respond, what is your trajectory of thought. I think he would be delight delighted, he wouldve been upset at the violence and lawlessness as we all were because it detracted from the message of the protest but he was, black lives matter, mattered what he was still alive, and very admiring of that movement, he saw himself and sncc and black lives matter and so he would see himself and sncc in this. He would think that we are in a moment and is a trifecta because we have the pandemic, then we had Police Killings and then we had the president. Who is making everything worse. , here we are. All of that is uniting to allow a moment when there might really be some significant change. Going back to violence in the riots and it seems to me it was not an influence upon principal ground but hes cruelly whirling the violence because he believed in the work of everyone. But when you talk about the troubled left in nature of Police Officers in ones neighborhood with destruction of property in ones neighborhood, we do agree and wasnt opposed to violence in the traumatic grounds, does not make sense to you . Julian . Yeah i think there were two views of violence, at least two and one was that it was a tactic for some and for others it was a philosophy of life and it was definitely the former and not the latter. And he supported the people who were engaged in selfdefense back then and there was a case involving naacp and leader in North Carolina who was thrown out of the naacp and he always opposed that and thought, now we know, i think they had some inkling at the time but now we know how many people were really armed during the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s and charlie wrote a book about nonviolent and julian had a couple of experiences during the movement which people who had everybody had guns, it was the south in a cultural thing and it was a protective thing and we need to talk about how amazing it was that there was number just a fullscale shootout somewhere in that they were able to maintain a Nonviolent Movement and the strength it took and it did not make them, and made them incredibly courageous. I dont want to get too much into that but heres a favorite of mine, i know julians as well. In montgomery 1956 doctor king had the bodyguards around him, and the guns in his home, doctor king was initially a pacifist. Its really interesting to me, i was wondering whether they had consent to carry a gun. No, i know he never did and in fact its very funny because whats the name of the black panther guy from the west coast, he came to visit atlanta in julian had to drive him around and he decided that he would have a gun because he would expect the black panther to have a gun until somehow i dont know if his brother james found the gun but somewhere there was a gun and it was like this rusted thing that had probably had never been shot or they at least put that on the of the car to impress. [laughter] julian never touched a gun. What is interesting to me, when he was just beginning, he described himself as a pacifist and he actually traced some of that through his roots at the school in pennsylvania and im coming from pennsylvania and coming from northwest washington, d. C. And from San Francisco i believe, in thanks to steve with city of life books for being with us and helping arrange this. He initially described himself as a pacifist which i found really weird. I think it was because he was opposed to the war in vietnam and that was before that was happening then and i think as time went on he realized that he didnt qualify as a pacifist in the proper sense. When he was called before the draft board, and they called his name in the draft board person said i know all about you, youre one of the sit downers. He said you will never get [laughter] he acted as if it was some sort of punishment. And then they made him, it was as they classified him as unfit. Okay. Morally unfit. Yeah. Wow, he did not serve in the vietnam, he did not serve in the military at all and for the rest of his life, i usually supported george w. Bush and theres a great play on that. So maybe we can go back to the beginning. , let me say where we are right now, had sitting dickory aside, what about the trump era and the trump years. I think he would be appalled, trump and the republican field had been informed before joann died and so we had watched that and as he recalls, many people, 17 or 18 or so when they started and like most people he did not take trump seriously and did not think he was a serious option as the partys nominee. And from day one, he wouldve been appalled. And when trump was first elected and a lot of people say to me, what did julian think, i said from the beginning that he would say dont agonize, organize. And he wouldve been geared toward making sure that he was a one term president but i dont think any of us, i cannot speak for him or the rest of us but i did not imagine that he can be this appalling. But every day, today to decide that the 75yearold in buffalo is anticop or bucket tour, its like he does himself on a daily basis. And julian in a standard speech that he was giving for the last three or four years had a line about one party is spineless and the other party is shameless. And they still are. It would be a mistake to identify it by the republicans party. But i found a really interesting when he initially went from this he wasnt sure which party to register with. He started with the republicans. That was when there were not just republicans. The party of lincoln. Correct a very early in julians career with the nixon strategy is where the party was going and how it wanted to get there. So there is really never been in action. Ideally and julian spoke about this you would have both parties vying for the black folk and then youd have more to show for it and that has not been the case in the last at least 50 years. Demillo have to forgive me for wearing a hat tonight but i chose one of Jackie Robinsons number. [inaudible] that sort of the dream for the notion that bond had an early 60s that pam is talking about. He talked about dont agonize, organize and we agonized over that. She started chewed up the candidate in the speech he gave then he said that the rage that was expressed knowing the shooting was good but nobody transferred that or transitioned it or morphed into an organization that had policy goals. And it was always about not only protest but moving protest politics. Could you comment on back . That is a big subject of debate among people and sick disgusted as theyd discuss most things and argued and there was a lot of discussion and argument about whether julian should run for the legislature because i was not viewed by some as being coopted and not turning his back on the movement and what can you accomplish an elective politics. And so the decision was made obviously that it was a good idea and people ran his campaign and they were strategic about how they ran sncc and how they handle his campaign and so the whole idea of running for off this was that we are going to accomplish something and that you had an agenda and his First Campaign was really what is still they say the most workable way to get votes and that was to knock on peoples doors and introduce herself and find out what the people were thinking of what the people wanted. That is what he did and he did and that was his initial platform. Thats how he approached politics and Political Office and his whole political career. Its interesting everybody and by the way im on the coordinating committee and will get into a little bit more but he would show up at peoples houses and would have cases of [inaudible] and he go into the backyard and if every can worked out okay they would invite the neighbors and say whats wrong with politics and what do you hope to accomplish and he would take that and put into a platform. It was a neighborhood platform. Rather than presenting a platform to the neighbor hood you develop a platform across the lets go back to the beginning. Could you discuss some of the Family History and maybe tie it to why there were reasons why so they was such a civil rights activist and explain his history. Im going to ask you in between talking and listening if you could use your mic. When you are done speaking user might do as we are getting a lot of feedback on the line. Okay, sure yeah. Did you get my question . Yes. Julians family on both sides were educated and so education was seen as maybe the way to a future, the way to help the race and to influence the race and his grandfather was actually a born in 1863 and he along the way was he was born in kentucky and thats where the colleges and at some point he heard about maria and julian told the story about his grandfather whose name was james , took his tuition and walked across kentucky for the college and the college he cannot read or write was 16 so it took him many years to graduate but when he did he gave to validate there he addressed and when one to get a theology degree. I always said if he didnt have a doctorate you were considered undereducated and so they were a educated on his fathers side. His father himself became, graduated from college when he was 60 and got his doctorate at the university of chicago and became an educator and did research that is still considered groundbreaking and education. His main book was called nico instigation in alabama and when his mother was educated she herself was a graduate who at the age of 52. Addict curry in Library Science in the worked as a librarian until she was 92. And debated whether or not she should and decided that she would. So it was a very distinguished panel family. When his father became resident of Lincoln University he was known as the black princeton at the time and his father was the first black president because the keeper who ran the school didnt think there were any black people who were good enough to preside over it even though was an allblack student bodies he can imagine the policy from medine dr. Bond was not a withering persona. And so i know that their work, there were difficulties. Everyone who is anyone including Albert Einstein who as you can imagine was on every College Campus in the United States and he made a point of wanting to go and did go. He was a very small boy but the family and julian are eyes talked about that, Albert Einstein said julian dont memorize anything authority written down and it was something julian lived by his whole life. So was a fabulously enriching environment and they sent julian schools were segregated and lincoln pennsylvania and so there were three kids and theyll went to private school. So they went to his you mentioned George School in newhall pennsylvania and that was a Quaker School where he was the only there was one other black students who was the day students because he was the son of the cook at school. He spoke very fondly of George School always and had many friends. That was not easy for him either and the the school told him not to wear anything that said George School when he went into town because they didnt want the townspeople to know that they had a black student. But it was a wonderful education were rich julian was always grateful and then of course he became a morehouse man in the note they say about them. You can always tell a morehouse man but you cant tell them much. [laughter] he learned how to speak truth to power in the early quaker teachers that he studied with then its interesting these are basic quaker principles and he said they were with him for the rest of his life so how did julian as his father left the university and got a job at Atlanta University and that coincided with julians graduation from high school. The family moved and julian saw a school that he thought was morehouse which i think was spelman traded or house but he thought it was a wonderful looking campus and he wanted to go to school there so thats how he got to morehouse. Then of course he quit college when he was one semester short of graduation. You can imagine how that was received in his family who highly valued education but also his father im sure would consider himself a race man so they were clearly supportive of the Civil Rights Movement and they were going to tell julian he couldnt be a part of it but they were also im sure appauled. You remember reading that they had some concerns. I think they went south in 1957. And the 14yearold from chicago and amits mother decided to publish the image of his body and ebony magazine that there obligations and julian must have seen the photo. He expressed some trepidation about it and he wrote Something Like if thats what they did to emmett till but wont they do to me so he was concerned but he seemed to find a comfortable home at morehouse and theres a passage in race man and what she describes his first in countermovement into the silver Rights Movement and pam im on page two. It begins this way. You heard julians words. It began for me as it did for many more and im on page three now it about every fourth, 1960 hours sitting in a cafe near my College Campus in atl