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We thank you so much for showing up and tuning in and in support of our authors and the incredible depth of booksellers at Harvard Bookstore. We sincerely appreciate your support now and noise. And finally, as you may have experienced in virtual gatherings recently. Technical issues may arise and if they do, we will do our best to resolve them quickly. Thank you for your patience and your understanding. And now pleased to introduce our speakers. Alex is the author of numerous books including the right to vote which was a finalist for both the Pulitzer Prize and the los angeles vote price and when the award for the american historical association. He is matthew w sterling junior professor of history and social policy at the john f. Kennedy school of government at harvard university. Miles is a senior practice fellow in american democracy at Harvard KennedySchool Center for democratic governance and innovations. As a longtime organizer, policy advocate an elected official. Prior to his appointments to the center, he was most recently president of the independent grassroots organization, because. And now im honored to turn things over to our speakers the digital podium is yours. Thank you. Also thank you to the Harvard Bookstore for making this possible tonight. Thanks to all of you who are joining us tonight will be a very good discussion especially to alex writing this Remarkable Book i have been a friend and fan of the professors book for years we both been involved in the democracy reform the right to vote has been the anchor if i can use that term in the field of the understanding of the nations troubled and fried history of the right to vote. Why do we still have the Electoral College . As the anchor explanation with the possibilities of change from the Electoral College. Timing is everything there is more interest in the issue of how we get our democracy and then at the same time there is more interest with a democracy reform that i have seen as well. There are two kinds of challenges. One is the immediate challenge we are facing in this incredibly turbulent moment. For an example the president of the United States wants to postpone the election may be because it will be problematic or states trying to make it more difficult whether by mail or in person, to the conditions of the serious pandemic so longterm structural issues that have been with us for a long time how we vote with voting of civil rights as a civic duty. And for many years against the wealthy and then rapidly approaching the. 70 percent of the people have 30 percent of the senators and 30 percent have 70 percent. [inaudible] and with the votes of other states. With a small number of battleground states and lastly to elections already in the 21st century Electoral College has delivered if they lost the popular vote. That seems like a pretty serious indictment of this Longstanding Institution and why we still have the Electoral College. So what motivated you to get in here to write the book . Before addressing the question thank you for the generous introduction and also thank you to Harvard Bookstore for sponsoring this event. I am very grateful. But to write the book and happened in two stages. The first was the 2000 election when the person who won the most votes did not become president and that set off questions in my mind why do we do it like this . And then the second stage which was at the history of the institution and then with the hundred and 900 constitutional amendments. Now 10 percent of all constitutional amendments of the Electoral College. So also discovered that on six occasions and with that constitutional amendment so that surprised me. Also Public Opinion polls overwhelmingly favored now that took a bit after the 2016 election then to be in favor of the Electoral College. In of that favored reform and then just 19 percent of favorable reform. And then Public Opinion favorite this. We have a history of dysfunction and reform and then to figure this out what is the conventional answer to the question the small states get the extra increment by having the National Popular vote. It turns out thats not true. And then to disguise and so why do we have that . And scholarly inquiry to mirror the question in every few years why do we elect cabinets is way . Take it back. So with that or a sanctity and how that selection of president s be the subject of deep and thorough thinking. So tell us how that came to be at the constitutional conventio convention. And with that question of how to choose a chief executive. And then the default option which most people see that congress would choose the president. And on several occasions they had straw votes in the majority may have said yes congress should choose the president. And then a couple days later say no, thats not a good idea because there is no separation of power and then to go around and around with the National Popular vote and governors choosing the president. They cannot come to a resolution and now they still not have an answer they were tired and under pressure they were on can and then to try to iron out the unfinished parts so to me that was consistent with the group that came up with the Electoral College and those factors that contribute , the best way to understand what they came up with it was built around this default notion Electoral College is a replica the same number of senators and representatives and a replica of congress that performs only one function and then disbands so it cannot be corrupted. Thats what we came up with that. Interesting. Small state versus big state was that the only issue . At the moment in this country we are realizing just how many things can be reviewed or looked at through the lens of racism Structural Racism and slavery. So im guessing with that perspective things come up with the Electoral College. The impact is enormous. Thats not to say i dont disagree but im not one of those who claim those that were created to protect the slaveholders. And it was imported into the Electoral College but not the reason for it. But certainly there is no possible consideration. In the most powerful story of reform comes with the 18 eighties through the 1970s. The core fact that southern politicians were firmly and ferociously opposed to a National Popular vote. They were disenfranchised. And at that point so many whites benefited and in effect those i got representation and electoral votes with the states entire population and white and black only whites were permitted to vote this is disproportionate to southern whites and they feared because if they adopted a National Popular vote they would surrender a great deal. And one was it would diminish their clout because it was stated in a slightly different way so the influence of the state depends on the population. It depends on how many people turn out to vote. The southern whites benefited and they kept it off the table. And then we can talk about this later but they derailed when we came closest and i can talk about this if people are interested later but there are many othe epi key book. Winner take all is not in the constitution and had the power to decide and how to be allocated by the 18 thirties it becomes the rule. But at the end of the 19th century is an extraordinary episode taking place in michigan that was republican dominated majority state like most states. Fiftyfive 45 republican. And in the 1891 of the first things they did was to create a district. So if you want a district then it would basically split. That is an ageold proposal and James Madison in the 18 twenties was in favor, jefferson was in favor, and it had been the preferred option among republicans in congress in the 18 seventies. So what happens the entire republican establishment in michigan turns against this and denounces this after john minor and announce the law as a crime against democracy. The president of the United States harrison, gets involved in starts crusading. Basically they do winner take all then they have the emergency convening of the Supreme Court to fight over this issue. And to say you cant allow district elections. That the question is the republicans who favored in 1877 was treated like the plague. So the south had become solidly democratic. And dennis republicans as well as africanamericans. So those systems were created. No gains for the republicans in the south but they would lose about 45 percent of the electoral votes. In conclusion they would never again when a president ial election. And then in michigan republicans go back into power and then invasion about this attempted reform of the gerrymandering also Voter Suppression lies laws that they remained solidly in power the next 50 years in michigan until the new deal. Second, taking place in the 19 sixties, it had to do with Democratic Values and wallace as a kingmaker and then to that support grows tremendously through 1960. Chamber of commerce, aflcio, to get them to agree on anything is unlikely. They all favorite Electoral College reform. 1969 the house passes a constitutional amendment to abolish the Electoral College and replace with the national vote. One thing i found interesting in that. In my early twenties focusing on the Antiwar Movement i had no idea this was happening in congress. I think very few people know about it. That passes and then goes to the senate and gets a lot of momentum. If you read the newspapers it looks like it will happen. But key southern senators slow it down. It has to go through the Judiciary CommitteeJames Eastland of mississippi he slows it down and creates delay after delay it is a year filled with regional tensions the southerners are nominated to the Supreme Court and they are both rejected by the senate. And then add that are battle with the issues of race and region one dash are paramount but thank you to the machinations of the senator the amendment does reach the senate floor september 70 and greeted by a filibuster by Strom Thurmond and other southerners. But the strategy of using a filibuster it was odd to prove you also need the two thirds vote and then you need to chances to block it. The advocates of reform never reached the two thirds mark in the senate. It was heavenly heavily regional. 70 percent of senators from outside the south with a similar percentages of them voting against so in the 20th century to calm closest. So back to the point where race was critical. Speaking of reform, now there is discussion again of Electoral College reform. We dont know exactly what impact it will have in the 2020 election. But there is a movement for a National Popular vote for the interstate compact. What is your general sense of the possibility of reform and what format that might take if it comes about . Ending up as an optimist but the possibilities of reform are realistic. But in the next few years and within the next decade. And then to make a couple of comments with the interstate compact that is state can join a compact it can attest all of the electoral votes for the candidate who wins the National Popular vote not the state but the National Popular vote. It takes effect if you have a total of 270 electoral votes has signed off. The 15 states and the district of columbia have signed on. Only 75 short of winning. Its important to contextualize where the compact came from. It originated formally in 2006 in response to the 2000 election and the fact Republican Opposition in congress which is been staunch since 1980. The Republican Party movement was bipartisan. That has not been true since the early eighties. And then to get a constitutional amendment through congress and its a way to circumvent that process. The ingenious idea or cluster of ideas to be organized. My own view is that if the compact comes close to succeeding the strategy would be then to convert itself for a constitutional amendment. If i ever go into effect every lawyer in the United States would have work to do with the lawsuits and also it is inherently unstable. But the new constitutional amendments introduced into congress within the last six months, and i think the combination of grassroots with the Democratic Energy with the possibilities for this. I have another question but a quick reminder to the audience if they have a question, go ahead. We will have the questions brokered for us. Thinking of the 2020 election that whatever you think today will be completely different two weeks in. That said in 2016 we had the election where Hillary Clinton beat donald trump by 3 million votes but lost Electoral College significantly. Can you imagine a situation in 2020 the democratic nominee wins by 5 million and loses in the Electoral College. What is your sense of what impact it might play in the 2020 election . Building on your comment the unspoken but important truth is that there is relatively little concern with the National Popular vote. It seems only to be in doubt because of the Electoral College. I dont think anyone thinks trump will win the popular vote against joe biden. We could be wrong. But its only the Electoral College that seems to be making this into a competitive race and then it might not be. It is affecting the strategies on both sides the that is a reforming feature doesnt matter by how much california or new york or texas. Just matters that you win and with the structure of winner take all it provides the incentive for Voter Suppression. If you are in a state that is close you can suppress two or 3 percent that is not a marginal increase of two or 3 percent but could give you all of the electoral votes. So there is the incentive of suppressing votes under the Electoral College. Another scenario circulating whether this election will happen i am weary of those that are chosen in the manner they can decide. Which means they do not have to have a popular election. They can cancel that and override if they have reasons, the results. This almost happened in florida when the legislature was prepared to prove the cases but im worried that could happen in this election in florida and North Carolina or wisconsin where confusions become a rationale for the legislature to choose its own electorates. I hope thats not true but the structure is shaping the election. Hopefully we get more impetus for reform after. Caller hi. We have a good batch of questions. Its my understanding the nebraska popular row are proportioned to the Electoral College vote and why dont more states do this . Good question nebraska does use a district system as does main. But if your state has a dominant Political Party it generally doesnt want to do that because that means that to circumvent that but then to have the dominant party. So when the viewpoint of the winner take all and they might agree they have a more proportional system with gerrymandering, nobody wants to go first. That has been the core problem. In 2007 or 2008 the North CarolinaLegislature Democratic at the time and then the National Democratic party said they dont want you to do this. Why . There was a Simultaneous Movement in california by republicans to move to a district system that could have had 22 elector