This virtual format works, youll still be able to ask a question of the author if you like. To do so just click on the qanda icon at the bottom of the screen. Bob woodward has been reporting in washington for half a century. In his decades with the Washington Post discovered nine president s and shared two Pulitzer Prizes first the post coverage of the watergate scandal and the second in 2003 for coverage of the 9 11 terrorist attacks carried his books also have made big news and drawn in many readers. His newest book, rage come is the 20t 20th in all of the natil bestsellers. We are accustomed to his books taking us behind the scenes of highlevel ratings and into the minds of those thinking critical u. S. Policy decisions. Whats extraordinary about rage is that this time, donald trump himself spoke with bob 17 times while the book was being written providing a remarkable view into the president thinkins thinking and key moments. The conversation this evening will be another prizewinning journalist chief washington correspondent for the new yorker magazine where shes been for 25 years. Janus also the author of books that have helped deepen our understanding of such important topics as the money behind the rise of the radical right, the war on terror, Clarence Thomas hearings into the iran contra affair. Take it away. Host its great to be with you and with politics and prose. I just wanted to start giving that there has been so much news with a question or two to get your thoughts on the court and i have wondered whether in your work you had gotten any insight into his relationship with Mitch Mcconnell, how do they work together, will they be coordinating closely and do they have the same interests when it comes to approaching filling the vacancy left by Ruth Bader Ginsburg . Guest you have a piece of the new yorker to remind everyone what your piece said and did the idea that mcconnell wants to make sure that he maintains control of the senate more than getting other justice; is that correct . Host he would like to do both he and my guess is that he is very canny and will find a way to do both with incredible maneuvers. He often surprises people with the fine print ofine print of te senate. A few people that have interviewed Mitch Mcconnell thinks that nothing matters more to him than stating the majority leader. Put it that way. But i imagine at this point trump really wants yet another justice, and this would be his third on the court. Im sure mitch would like it, too, but not at the expense of losing his majority in the senate, and its dicey politics as we know right now. So, what do you think is going on . How do they work together; have you gotten any guest im going to release some audio and transcripts of trump talking with me about this very issue. I think we are going to release them in an hour, but it shows that trump and mcconnell worked in tandem much more than we thought. Trump has wrapped his mind around this issue of filling the seat of the next Ruth Bader Ginsburg seat and pcs in fact the giants won because what this does is it takes the focus of the virus where his performance is quite frankly i found in my reporting abysmal and it goes to the issue of can he put another justice on the court. This puts his idea of a lack of decorum is very much his style and people are criticizing him saying this isnt fair but this is a pure political power play that mcconnell and trump might pull off quite successfully. A lot of people have said wait a minute, garland didnt get a hearincould get ahearing or a vn reality, the Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell controls these things so theres much more. One of the conversations i had with trump a couple of months ago he said he thought in 2016 he won the election the last four weeks of the campaign. I think you can see that and argue that. I think that hes hoping to duplicate that. Host in your book you have a conversation i dont know if you directly interviewed him, but with Lindsey Graham. If Lindsey Graham and chief Justice Roberts talk a lot and which was news to me and Lindsey Graham is the chair of the Judiciary Committee in the senate right now a pivotal position. Host in the book he seems to express he is worried, and chief Justice Roberts, worried that the court has become so split and politicized and partisan and they dont want it to become more so. Do you think that kind of thinking will have any bearing on who he picks or how do they make this picture using . Guest i think hes going to pick the cubanamerican from florida. It makes all of the political sense in the world. She served on the Supreme Court of florida for many years now. Shes on the federal Appeals Court down there. The cubanamerican heritage, conservative, it is an obvious political pick. But in trumps world you learn not to speak much about your predictions because he continually surprises. But this is going to be as everyone says bloody. But trump and mcconnell are looking at this like we have an opportunity here and it appeals to the evangelicals and to this idea of the kind of rule breaking trump loves. In a way theres a tradition of not trying to ram through the Supreme Court new appointee in the Election Year let alone the last 50 days of the campaign, so i think there is a feeling of political muscle and they are going to exercise it. Host and you dont see it as any kind of the potential for backlash . I know the democrats are already talking about if they take the Senate Majority they would also turn to serve radical muscle and maybe try to pack the court or Something Like that. Do you see any sort of a downsized the six guest people talk about that. Packing the court has a bad odor about it because Franklin Roosevelt tried that and we dont like the way the court is or the way the court has been in all of American History and we are now going to add more justices because we dont like what they are doing i dont think that works in a political or practical sense. You listen to some of the democrats talk about this and say this is absolutely unfair. How can trump and mcconnell think of doing this. What do you think . Host i think that mcconnell and i dont know, havent spend as much time as you have with trump, but mcconnell as somebody wrote today hypocrisy and shamelessness not only is he immune to them that they are a management style. They are not going to care if people say that it looks unfair. Host guest but who are the people that are going to say its unfair, democrats. Host the only thing i can imagine where it might make a difference, and i was interviewing norm ornstein fromm aei, theres a couple of senate races where endangered incumbents come i, and mean for instance, declared shes not going to vote for ginsburg before the election and theres a few others where it could be dicey and it puts them on the spot having to choose between the trump base and the moderates and particularly women who they might not want to lose. You are going to need for that would not vote with mcconnell, for republicans. And today i cant account for them. I cant. They might get romney, murkowski and collins, but i dont know who the fourth would be. Everybody is watching. Guest certainly. But the idea of hypocrisy, what is the hypocrisy . Guest its not going to hurt their feelings. Guest actually i think that is kind of the wrong word. It is playing ultimate political hardball. And as we know, the democrats will do that as well but republicans. So, its going to be a moment where you have to sit on the edge of your seat because theres going to be maneuvers and surprises. Trump is sitting back there like we are talking about this rather than the virus which has now killed 200,000 people. And i found in my reporting and my discussions with trump this all goes back to if i can take you to what i think is one of the most important meetings in the oval office certainly in this century and needy in the longtime advanced january 28 this year when the National Security adviser said to President Trump the virus is going to be not maybe that is going to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. And the deputy laid out the details. He was an old wall street journal reporter, very talented, nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for what he did for seven years covering the 2003 sars epidemic and he laid out for trump and said this virus is airborne. People who dont show symptoms spread but most importantly he said its not going to be just a little problem. Its going to be very much like the 1918 spanish flu pandemic that killed 675,000 people. They went through the details of this and the president ten days later told me about this and he was talking about china and it wasnt three months until he learned about the january meeting which i start my book with. Its almost like somebody coming to Franklin Roosevelt a week before pearl harbor and the saying the japanese owner going to bomb us and adjust settings on it not doing anything. Its shocking behavior. I think the two pillars of the presidency, first i remember talking to trump about this in our first interview in december last year in the oval office. The question was what is the job of the president and trump said the job is to protect the peop people, and he failed here to protect the people. What he could have done in february, coming out saying i have an authoritative warning here there are things people can do, literally at the state of the Union Address february 4 he could have said watch your hands, keep social distancing, wear a mask, dont go in a crowded room with people for an extended period of time. That kind of remedial behavior. There are models that say tens of thousands of lives could have been saved by acting in february. Host love story you lay out here i think is shocking and egregious. Why do you think he acted this way . What was going on in his head . I know he says he purposely downplayed it to avoid a panic, but is that really its because if hit because ifhe is so concec in the public, he spent in awful lot of time making up fear about things like race riots so he doesnt seem concerned about that particular panic. I did see in your book that is chief of staff was concerned particularly about the stock market dropping. What was going on, how do you account for his failure on this issue that has now killed as of today 200,000 people . Guest he would have thought i were going off the rails. I mean its a shocking number. Your question march 19 i interviewed him and one of our many talks over nine hours i said why have you acted this way about the virus. This is march. Everyone knew that it was airborne. 39,000 new cases a day. Ive always liked to downplay it. I now look at that statement and to be direct with you, when he said i dont want people to panic is what his failure to understand people be governed. I know you can be told of the worst. Its all bad news and you will not lose heart. That is the american tradition if you lay it on the line and say this is going to be difficult but trump wanted to cover it up. It is a failure to lead in any form a failure to understand his responsibility to. Some of the experts would say go with the end of february. Maybe it will be different but right now its good to be fine. People would say well, the Public Health officials but trump down but you know this so well there are two strains, to routes of information to the president. One is National Security and the other is the doctors coming in for these Coronavirus Task force meetings except trump is the only one thats at all of them. He knows whats going on. This failure to warn is one of the saddest moments in history as best i can tell. Host i feel he felt he could somehow outgrown it as you watch the numbers and they are exponentially going upwards and is prepping for the country did he think people wouldnt notice . Guest thats not the way he thinks. He thinks in a very impulsive way as we know was how do i deal with this in this moment. Its a failure to accept responsibility. The longest talk thats in the book this is two months ago. I said what grade would you give your self and he said well i would give myself an a plus. On this day there were 4 million virus cases in the country there were 42,000 americans that have died and hes giving himself an a and then you look at some of his comments in the last we and people ask about him downplaying it and he said i actually played it. That is a word that i checked that isnt even in the scrabble dictionary let alone the big dictionary. One moment hes saying my book is a political hit job and was asked by a fox anchor this week what about the buck is accurate and trump said its okay, its fine. Up, down. Im sorry to say this, listen to this im not sure he knows which way is up and this way is down. That compounds the problem that this is the leader of the country. Host you have covered nine president s and i guess i just have to ask the most basic of questions. Is trump the worst . Host as a reporter you want to cover each one and you could make all kinds of comparisons. The first president i covered with carl bernstein, nixon clearly was a criminal in the Republican Party turned on mixing and he was forced to resign when Barry Goldwater went to the oval office and said i counted the republicans and you have only four votes among the republicans. None in the Democratic Party and one of the four votes for you is not me. The next night nixon announced he was resigning so each one is different. This has left a gaping wound in the country and it is not over. Almost a thousand people are dying every day right now and the failure to describe the things that need to be done the experts say if trump would just say everyone should wear a mask and then he goes to these rallies where thousands of people packed together without masks. What the hell is going on. When i did the first book i said its a nervous breakdown of the executive branch. What do you call it now . Almost something weve put to sleep, 142,000 deaths, not 200,000. We need a wakeup call. This isnt a political issue. This is a practical issue and quite frankly a moral issue. Host i guess the reason i ask whether you ranked trump differently is because as far as i know, and correct me if im wrong but this may be the first president where youve come out and expresse express an opiniont simply says this man is not qualified to be our president. Host what i said is in my reporting he is the wrong man for the job based on overwhelming evidence. Because in a way the book is about are we going to face the truth. As i was working on the epilogue i typed that and then i consulted my assistance and my wife who you know so well into somebody else that worked at the post that was a staff writer, she repeatedly would take me to the woodshed frankly and say wait a minute, you havent absolutely confirm that this yet. I did have another page typed out and then she would go after it and you know her as a friend and i know her as a wife and a friend. The question i had was this process you went through coming out that you are pretty much the most famous and accomplished reporter in america and you come out of a tradition of trying to keep your voice neutral and let the reporting total story. And in this case you actually spoke up as an individual , issued an opinion and i can imagine that its a hard step to take for people like you and me that are trained as traditional reporters and i wonder what is it about trump that made you feel this is the time you ha yoe to speak uhad tospeak up and sat loud . Guest not only was i able to do the reporting and have the luxury that he would call me at all hours and i could call him at any time. He would call back or call at night or during the day. Ive got ten generals waiting downstairs. One question everybody wonders about his life did he talk to you because he kept saying throughout the book i knew this was going to be bad. You are going to do this and that. Do you think he thought he could win the world over or change the Mainstream Media view or did he need someone to confess to late at night, why did he talk to you . Guest what im doing as you know reporting is very practical and i would lay out my questions and he would answer. I wouldnt let him off the hook. When you go for the buck one of the most extraordinary scenes for me was going down to interview him on december 30 last year. The impeachment trial was going on and they started askin i stae questions about impeachment to talk to the attorney general about investigating joe biden and his son so we are shouting at each other saying by releasing this transcript, nixon famously said he gave over by behaving the way he did. So president of trump u. Gave your opponents a sword by releasing the transcript. That transcript is perfect so we are going through. Im just saying wait a minute, wait a minute. Why didnt you do this . That you are saying lets investigate. And you talked to the attorney general and trump said its about corruption. He would go on and on and deny it. I said just as a matter of policy, do you think that the president of the United States should go around asking leaders to investigate his political opponent and he said perfect if i havent released the transcript i would have been in trouble on this. Finally i said do you understand how cleansing it is to apologize, have you thought of apologizing. Guest he apologized for the access hollywood tape. I said go walk around this wonderful place and see what she says. It wouldnt make a difference. Im sure thats true, but thats the interrogation of the impeached president on trial and in the senate, the senate and the house couldnt do and you could hear i am going to go on one of the networks and play the tape of that an