Host welcome senator murphy its a pleasure to be with you today. Its a pleasure to read your book, the violence inside us. I learned a lot it is a useful book that people should read whether or not you have experience on this extremely important subject. Gun violence and american violence. I would like to begin with the title itself the violence inside us it forces the book where you take the reader through a short primer on biology and history. Why begin they are and why did you choose violence . Thank you for doing this im glad to be joining you to talk about this book. I start with the question of what kind of violence is inside us because for me it was the first question i came upon which was the mission of my political career. While the book is mostly a history of american violence and how we overcome the history, it involves my own political story. Since the shooting in connecticut in 2012, i have been pretty prodigious as a lawmaker before hand but i never had an emotional connection like i do now in those days after the shooting of sandy hook this was going to become my political calling that the question i ask myself isnt that different when others ask is a young man with no prior history of violence with no conceivable clear motive walking into an Elementary School to gun down 2t graders how on earth can a human being do that . How does the brain work in a way that convinces yourself that is a logical next step . I want to start there and talk about how 99. 9 percent of us would conceive of a mass murderer. And then when we contemplated violence. And its important to understand that our species is more prone to violence than any other and thats the way in which humans organize themselves with dominance over others and they put themselves in the position to procreate so that discussion of how understanding the ways that which broken brains operate to understand the way a normal brain operates which is essential to the human stories. And to understand the violence properly its hard to appreciate and with that historical trouble in fact its the norm throughout the course of human history. So talk about in particular so the United States is something of an outlier with a much higher murder rate than another nation. And then to explore the reason why. But talk about those exited shootings but we are the out later the outlier with a homicide rate. And with much of americas early history and not until the 1800 hes one 1800 until we diverge from the rest of the world. And then it never came back. We have been a global outlier 150 years. And there are two things that explain why those numbers started to separate. The first is the advancement of slavery in the United States with the caught gin we brought more slaves and then we used more violence as a mechanism to Order Society at very early it became used to violence it was a normal mechanism and also used in high numbers. And violence just became normalized. And then to began to expand the rates of violence. And that is the invention of the self repeating handgun to be used without we loading every single time. And with that gun regulation at spread throughout United States and were romanticized. And then that the entrance of new migrant groups and with that normalization of violence coming out of the expansion of the slave population starts to move the rates of violence and gun homicide in the upward directio direction. s you are saying that this is so much higher because of these two things so which are position the United States to be more violent than average country. And this would be a surprising confession about guns over and over and do some of this going into the research but certainly to reinforce me so yes. America would always be a more violent place. And that smoldering fire in this new country. So the last thing you should do is throw gasoline on the smoldering fire and in this case was the explosion of firearms and then that antipathy to any type of regulation the only fall into the hands of those who are responsible. My argument is to have the elevated responsibility in the United States of america to control violence because the history of slavery and a racist cast system to be reinforced by a violence as a melting pot with the increased rates of violence. And then to take further steps with those levels of violence. Host i found it interesting that that the Supreme Court decision was in fact rightly decided. When the court recognized individuals right to bear arms that was not necessarily connected to any military service. So what should that mean for gun control moving forward . So i told this story in the book there was a law Compelling Church services those must be armed know we have the strictest laws prohibiting the ownership of weapons but in the early days and with those native american tribes and then to open the carry weapons and it speaks to what i believe to be a common law and that they should carry weapons in the Second Amendment that is horribly convoluted and impossible to understand and conceivably be only relate to militias thats the ownership but in the Founding Fathers thought they had the basic rights to own weapons but that connecticut law also tells you thats what heavily regulates that there were far more laws during the early days in which people were prohibited from guns or the gunpowder there was a heavy regulation which trading tells you the Founding Fathers didnt think legislators could take away your rights they that they could heavily condition the right to own a weapon of of certain individuals i just think thats a smart place to land to say we have no secret agenda in fact we dont think the constitution allows for that but only the right weapons in private hands. And thats to what the constitution commands us. You talk about the nra. It was among the most powerful if not the most powerful. Do you say that is true today and why or why not . Its not true today because we have spent the last seven years building up a movement combating gun violence that has become more and more powerful and has overtaken the nra. We have done a very good job to expose the nra. One of the things i talk about in this book how it has changed over a marksmanship organization to make soldiers more effective with their weapons and to do the same thing as those shooting for sport or hunting and then a guy comes along and i told this story in the book. This is a fascinating part of the story. Could you tell a little bit about that . Many people dont know that part of the stories. It comes out on of the texas border country his whole family has worked for us Border Protection and has a run in with the mexican youth who has committed a crime against his family and in that confrontation he ends up shooting with that technicality and then he changes one vowel in his name and then to join the nra and then and then it goes around so then with a group of radicals to take over the nra they announce a clue where it is an annual Nra Convention and then as an advocate for gun control and responsible gun ownership and then to take the nra to pastor that with the developing rightwing movement and seize this opportunity not just the last regulation but with the anti gayrights and the anti Civil Rights Movement and that is the leader of the political infrastructure in this country that is no compromise on gun laws and it is a fascinating story that are sleepy politically to the seventies and then the epicenter of americas anti rightwing Regulation Movement and that is what the nra is in 2013 when i First Encounter to get the background check past. What will be the future . Where do you see the organization three or five or ten years . The second part plays out in the last 20 years. s on the nra starts to rely more and more its all in the book and then to deal with the changing commercial sector around firearms and those that had a guy that you could sell a lot of one make a lot of money selling guns to households but virtually less than one third does and its going down in the gun industry now has to make expensive weapons to a smaller amount of people and so you better load up to have a private arsenal before they be in all the weapons then they start to be against background checks and then they vehemently oppose restrictions and then they get way out of step with their members that they are way out of step with the broad middle of the American Public the reason the gun industry they have atrophy the increasingly impotent and then to have a great job of exposing them. And the gun lobby is fighting for staff even its own members dont believe in and that is the consequence becoming reliant on the industry. I find this fascinating that the interest of the gun Industry Alliance with conservative and republican party. And with politics in the United States have a wellfunded with a special Interest Group and with the silent majority. So how do we overcome that . In the area of gun control . Part of that is having confidence we are right thats also the story of the 1984 midterm elections and that he lost control as they voted for the assault weapons ban that is not true it was wildly popular in 1984. Ronald reagan was one of the primary cheerleaders. They were all sorts of things the Clinton Administration did that were unpopular the assault weapons ban was not one of them but the nra did a wonderful job with the help of people like bill clinton to create this story it is the assault weapons ban causing democrats to lose. That created a new reality that over 20 years democrats stayed away because of the issue of guns and only recently we started to believe the polls and that they support restrictions on assault weapons and they use universal love universal background checks and then was a horrific episode of gun violence and then decides to run for a congressional seat in georgia she will not hold back as an anti gun violence advocate with the weapons ban on background checks and then she wins because guess what they like bands on military style weapons and background checks. Was just having faith and thats why we won control of the house in 2018 and they think the senate in 2020 and then to do it when i ran. Host moving from politics to policy, in the book, im sorry, a colleague of mine not only one gun violence problem but several we have urban gun violence and mass shooting and how are these challenges similar and different and each of them one at a time and then urban gun violence chapter in Mass Shootings and with Domestic Violence. And the country awash in guns you have easier access to a weapon you are more likely to shoot your wife or commit suicide and commit murder in a city or urban center we have to accept if we are smart enough and had less guns in the country all of those would come down. And with universal background checks in connecticut has four times less then florida and that is not coincidental to the fact that gun laws are much stronger and then you mentioned the differences. But then lets just take one. But gun homicide happens in this country primarily or most often to africanamerican. And then primarily is an epidemic with white males. And how we get to both places and then a handful of neighborhoods with high levels of illegal gun use where suicides are a real phenomenon it is probably connected to the last the economic power white males over the last 50 years. But alas of connection to your community and that connection to white males is substantial thats why you see more suicide frankly the result a black people in this country means they dont feel a sudden loss of connection or economic power but because they have this tremendous elevated rates and the racial criminal Justice System and other factors. So certain things connect them certain factors explain why they are different. You say you discuss urban and Domestic Violence and suicide all in one chapter but you give Mass Shootings a chapter of its own. Mass shootings killed 80 people and obviously each one was a horrible tragedy. But at the same time during that year there were 16000 other homicides so why the focus so much on Mass Shootings . Because the book devoted to the proportional amount of space so 80 percent of the book would be about suicide because that is where the vast majority are but what im trying to do is the entry point for Many Americans in the fact of the matter is if we like it or not the Mass Shootings do command the nations attention when they happen and they are the reason why all of a sudden today we have a movement that is on the precipice hoping the Gun Violence Movement in the black lives Matter Movement as we discussed in the book, you cannot make Real Progress on gun homicide rates without doing social and economic work and i do have a full chapter devoted to Mass Shootings so that is the reason people enter the amusement and thats why the organizations started that commands the attention on tv and thats what drives the legislative conference the moments we have gotten closest in the wake of sandy hook and el paso i dont like the fact this country only cares about gun violence with them as shooting and when that happens. And getting yelled at my first Public Meeting after sandy hook has no mom and dads stand up and say this is been happening for decades and now you care about it . Were have you been . I feel that. But i understand now people want to know in part of this movement. And mass shooe together. And increasingly, i wonder whether we cant elevate one or another. I think that is 100 right and that is a message that has been sent. They said they agreed more than anybody else i told the story of a young man who died two months before and i opened the book with history because i think its important for people to understand my awakening to this issue his life matters just as much as those that died in seeing the hook but his story occupied no space in the headlines. In the end, thi this but i hopes an attempt to acknowledge the we were able to pass strong gun laws in 2013 after sandy hook because they joined forces and literally marched together through the streets of the state and we ended up with a gun laws being changed for the better. I think the future here is in the movements. That corresponds to different policies and i think that one shows it isnt as responsive yet its more expensive to programs like focus you mentioned in the book. We have to remember this is about dollar and 12 legislation. Thats right and your work highlights the importance of this and thats why i try to make it clear that the the one thing that tracks exposure to violence more than anything else is income and poverty and frankly, that is a true across several buckets of gun violence weve talked about. You are more likely to be the victim of suicide or Domestic Violence and more likely to be the victim of homicide if you are lower income and so much of the solution is coming to this conclusion that economic desperation does often beget violence and whether its deterrence efforts which is a way to say we are going to identify atrisk populations and put resources into the populations, we will focus resources to give them pathways to success and its a sort of targeted way to solve the economic problems. I have a story from baltimore in which i was walking the streets arfor part of my book and a guy came up to me that said hed been shot multiple times himself and hes talking about fighters more violence happening and he says hunger, it hardens your heart and that becomes the headline of one of the sections in the book. You you do things to put food on the table that you wouldnt do otherwise. That explains many of these rates of violence in parts of the country. I think obviously poverty, lack of opportunity, but i also think that given what we have seen that these hyper focused programs identify the people and places and indirectly work with those populations of the i just want to make sure we dont use that as a substitute for broad economic reform. Its important to recognize in my opinion expended ammunition of understanding this could help lead to the suicide epidemic so i think these focused investments in these atrisk populations is i think a way to provide a temporary fix. And to recognize we have an economic crisis that is putting people in different desperate situations and in part is both the leaves to drive some of the stories of violence so i want to make sure we do the targeted interventions and have t that broad conversation as well. You cant divorce the broad issues that i think its important that when we are talking about violence that is infecting white americans we offer direct concrete solutions to the violence but when we have violence that disproportionately impacts like americans, things that will make a difference generations from now. We need all communities [inaudible] i want to turn to the moment they are in today. Its impossible to ignore the conflict in the country right now and you are well positioned to speak to this. How do we navigate our way through the current crisis. Theres been violence between leftwing protesters and counter protesters literally fighting in the streets with injuries and deaths on both sides. How do we stop it. If you were president , how would you get us out and what would you do if they wer you were joe . Guest people will notice we wrote the introduction to the book with a june 2028 because you want people to understand even though i wrote this a year ago, much of what we are seeing today has long historical roots in this country. Vigilante justice around for a long time and the rise of the ku klukukluxkuklux klan in the lat8 hundreds and early 19 hundreds if and the caravans of the cities today. The injustice for peace protesters. There is a Str