Transcripts For CSPAN2 Carter Page Abuse And Power 20240712

CSPAN2 Carter Page Abuse And Power July 12, 2024

Think in my opinion is really one of the most important stories of our time. Is not been well told until now. Were going to talk about that today. I got to know carter page professionally as an Investigative Reporter covering story i really was blown away by the facts and when you cover stories where household interest in trying to take them and youre not giving the true picture. We will talk about all of that today. Carter, can we start with you giving little brief background of your education, where you went to school and just very briefly, your job experience and career. Yes thank you so much for doing this today and its great to be with you. So i grew up in Dutchess County new york. If i received the nomination for the u. S. Naval academy. I started of the week after i graduated high school. That was in 1989. So i completed annapolis and was then commissioned in the u. S. Navy and served in the u. S. Na navy. First is an armscontrol officer doing International Arms control negotiations. Carter i was in the pentagon and then i moved into and served on a couple of warfare ships. Couple of navy ships in the atlantic. In the middle east. Sharyl thank you have a couple of degrees. Carter yes. Ive been sort of a lifelong student. Although i joke around when i was at annapolis, dropped out. In my junior year but ive always been studying. It just because i have been working kind of throughout that. So i always studied at night and go to night classes and stuff. So for example, when i worked in the pentagon, i did my masters in National Security and georgetown. And also served in the pentagon. And while i was Research Fellow at the Foreign Relations in new york i did my mba in international business. I was at new york university. Sharyl is worth mentioning because the people followed any of your stories in the popular press, and likely heard that your also intelligence kind of guy. And when i read about your background and learn more about you, i really thought is a clear misrepresentation of what you had done. Then i think we also want to start maybe at the beginning of this conversation with how you came to work in russia read because it is not for your presence in russia in business at some point in time, they may not have had what some would call an excuse to wire tap you to let someone take get to President Trump. So explain first of all, why you were russia. People think it is so suspicious. What does business there would actually be thousands of people from the United States live and work in russia. Carter its ironic in a lot of ways. Im a free market guy. And actually that was my other degree. In my doctorate in university of London School of oriental no and African Studies looking at middle affairs. In thinking about how i did a big Research Project on the tensions between capitalists and socialists approaches in various emerging markets of society. One of the case studies i did was on russia. My first time to russia was actually during the late soviet. In the summer of 1991. Just a few months before the end of the soviet union. And i was of the First Exchange program between the u. S. Naval academy and the soviets. Ive been working over there in various capacities and again as i mentioned when i was in the pentagon, do a lot of u. S. Russia negotiations with the arm controls. Then when i got out was that the Foreign Relations council, i did a Research Project with a central asia basin. Of course russia is one of the countries. So ive done a lot of work in developing markets in general. But with russia and protec in particular, key emerging emerging market religious always, floyd did a lot of work there. They eventually it sort of was on the interface between capitalist and socialist type of approach us the end of communism that president reagan worked on in terms of transition to freemarket society. I was really inspired by that growing up. I decided i wanted to contribute to that process. Sharyl martin very much distance past, people were not viewed automatically with suspicion because this was encouraged by our government as we try to help them move from what was the soviet union to something more we helped to market economy like ours. And then your base there for Financial Company and you lived there. Carter yes me and another guy opened it was Merrill Lynch u. S. Investment bank. We opened their office there in 2004 actually is kind related to the overall transition to the market approaches. Because 1998, Merrill Lynch was one of the few banks that decided they were going to, Big Worldwide emerging markets crisis in russia got hit particularly hard there. And merrill decided that they were going to shut down the office. Six years later fastforward, russia was the biggest fastest Growth Market in the world. Theres a lot of privatizations going on. And again sort of working transition towards free market approaches. Mean another guy ended up heading over there to open the Merrill Lynch office. Sharyl last point on this. Of all places, the play to be part of the story but ultimately happen to you but of course is not unusual your businessman and the former soviet union because of the way the economy works, youre doing business, coming in contact with the officials and you are in essence into contact with often times with people who fight for russia. Actually work or provide intelligence the russian governments is not right. Carter absolutely. And again i have a philosophy of the time that is useful to tell the truth and help serve your country to the greatest extent that you can. That was my philosophy when i served in the navy and throughout those years. I had through a lot of different work that i had done at various contacts in the u. S. Intelligence community. In some people i know asked me for help. So again, ive always served my country in various capacities whether its at the eagle scout or alter boy or serving my community. As well as in the navy. And when i was asked, was more than happy to help. And again with a view that is useful to provide accurate and insightful information and since i had lived and worked there throughout for now over 25 years. It would be useful to provide insights which could be helpful to our country. Sharyl so you being attacked the information for fbi cia, and of really being the thing that drove the nail in the coffin in this operation that the government had to guess you and essentially that Trump Campaign. Get to that in a moment that the folk abuse and power tells us whole story, and people can order the book where rated. Carter theres a website, carter page vote. Com. If gives you all kinds of options in terms of whatever bookseller you prefer comes on, the full range there. This is all available at carter page book. Com. Sharyl in case people dont know who i am which is understandable. Im an Investigative Reporter with histories working at pbs, cnn, pbs right have an infinite should have called solve measure. And i have written my new book is called slanted plaintiff last censorship and hate journalism for incarceration i found something in common. It they both involve the government having surveilled us. Under improper and unlawful way. That is what chapter nine of carters book focuses on, overcoming the abuses against american democracy. Talks a lot about surveillance. Want to redo just a short passage from pat. You can provide contact rated and you wrote in this chapter, diligently case against the rebels several other forms of dysfunction free to document the government spying on it. I was targeted with four applications for surveillance. The applications were filed under title i wish defines me as a possible agent of a foreign power. Now the society, you have provided intelligence. Theyre secretly wiretapping here claiming to could be spying for the russians. You might but it was not the only target. My surveillance, the federal government can make to officer me. In other words listen to people talking to you of people who are communicating to them which would include your private data, private data from another for example and then also donald trump. This in fact, was the carter page was a direct assault in the first and Fourth Amendment rights of all americans you say person issue. People from the ideological spectrum, as an american issue. So is this unfolded, when did you start to believe that they were just after you. They were trying to get to perhaps President Trump card others on the campaign rated. Carter thats interesting. Actually through my contact in the intelligence community. Id someone give me a heads up. Even before the first defamatory articles which was used with eco me fbi to get this fraudulent mortgage. When back in september of 2016, contact of mine tied to the Intel Community told me that the democrats had paid Opposition Research people. Today god dirt on then candidate trump and his supporters such as me. So i knew they were in the process to try to come up with these lies primarily the initial idea of pumping it out to the media. In getting people, real Election Interference Campaign to deceive american voters. And this is again just a couple of months, less than a couple of months between the 2016 election and then sure enough, on september 23rd, 2016, even on getting all kinds of questions from reporters, finally to the washington post, the New York Times, cnn, theyre all out of asking about the same false allegations which the democrats had paid for. Their consultants were trying to push out in every way possible. And finally found someone who is either unethical enough or gullible enough or possibly both to go ahead and publish this article on friday september 23rd of 2016. And really the rest is history. Because again this is one of the elements and part of this election interference release false stories were used as a way and part of that fraudulent highs a affidavit against myself and the way is fine when so any people i was associated with. Its on the Trump Campaign volunteers back in 16. Sharyl so lets say that by way of summary, the things that were said about you in part to get the wiretaps under false pretenses, the secret wiretap applications that you are already acting so precious by are about to become one, people may not know that this is a coffee and qualifications. Unesco to wiretap Somebody Just on a hunch. For a fishing expedition. Often of already had some of the way of already acted as a russian spy terrorist or, the very fact that they wiretapped you four times of the course of the year without any evidence to charge you with anything or do anything about it is that youre about ready to do anything but part of this evidence claimed that you had visited russia and made improper contacts with certain russian government officials as a liaison for the Trump Campaign. Senator summary. Carter yes. I think it is. In an interesting insight and goes back to your personal story in terms of having to deal with similar things like this but i know as part of your ongoing battles in the course related to this, is very similar to what we have seen of the last few years for this center chair Lindsay Graham. You have been making various allegations but a lot of basis to it. And unfortunately, people within the u. S. Government department of justice which handles the civil litigations investigation such as this. I unfortunately have not been very supportive evolve in terms of providing full information about what happened. That is precisely the same thing with the Senate Judiciary committee Lindsay Graham and any of congress have been fighting for so hard. I think we are all in this battle together. Its very much the focus of the chapter here in terms of understanding everything thats at stake and how it affects so any people such as yourself and myself and leaders in congress and people who are trying to protect the Civil Liberties. Its a very complicated complicated story and i try to make it is simple and understandable as possible. With this chapter while also illustrating what exactly is at stake given the civil rights abuses. Or potential abuses. They were all susceptible peer. Sharyl let holland the ultimat trying to. Committing the abuses but also in charge of holding the perpetrator accountable. He find have no desire to do that. To provide the information that would allow us to do that inc. The whole ball of the cards. This is what is so dangerous about it because it didnt just happen to you and it didnt just happen to me. My information so theres any operations, men hundreds if not thousands of people involved over short time periods and over long time periods and other administrations and not just one administration. There probably too any people to count who have been involved in potential abuses of constitutional rights. We may never know. You also wrote in chapter nine, that the Inspector General michael horowitz, revealed the breakdown in surveillance has been much worse than we realized result. An examination, 29 of these wiretap applications that were reviewed. For possible abuse. All 29 and serious deficiencies. Think about the spread in several cases for the Inspector General cannot even find the documents show the fbis mandatory processes followed. Inspector general revealed something that has been apparent to any for a long time he writes. The whole system of secret surveillance is broken. This would you say into the heart of how it impacts people. So this attack of the carter age. Carter absolutely. Are so any different dimensions and challenges related to it. Then again its a little bit of a spectrum. I think as you are saying, this is a Serious Problems that is happened for impacts all americans on the one hand. But also, very often and this is a core element of the First Amendment liberties and constitutional rights. In addition to having freedom of the press, theres also freedom of thought and peaceful assembly. So any freedoms inherent in the First Amendment. And unfortunately, what you have sometimes is when people have a different view on people, journalists such as yourself, might Say Something which is not exactly what the powers that be and again, the incident that started with me happened during the Obama Biden Administration. And sometimes you have. Harsh political activists working to achieve their political objective. Speech of this is that great story the ones that i think about ready to tell. This is like a very wild insight. It because, people may say, white target him. What are some evidence that they were looking for anybody surrounding President Trump. They thought that trump was a russian spy. So they were just looking for spies. Risque scenario they were just looking for excuses. To try to justify a wiretap. But you with your experience, some of the fbi, they talk with you in time. Of the boston bombing. Carter yes. Its funny, right after the boston bombing, after 2013, i was helping the fbi with a particular russian spy case in new york. And unfortunately, and i was writing some various ideas in terms of the certain approaches that should be taken. I just recently read an academic article. And i offered at this in one of my meetings with the fbi agents. I had mentioned my various perspectives to them. I think what we have seen is just a real severe bias. His big Inspector General report which led into this initial fisa abuse report. As to these abuses that the Trump Campaign and myself that were inflicted upon us. That was a very serious issue but unfortunately, it extends far beyond that. One of the elements of that in one of the debates is Inspector General horowitz, and obama appointee said that well, we dont find any political bias there. But whats interesting, and conclusion a lot of people who actually know the full effect of pushback on this really hard. But on the face of it, there is a ton of evidence of political bias. Unfortunately, it is very similar to what were talking about and things that you had to deal with with the chairman Lindsay Graham and so any members of congress had to deal with in terms of getting the truth read it is only part of the story. If youre just getting. I always refer to it is garbage in garbage out. So the Inspector General report, the u. S. Department of justice, they interviewed 100 witnesses and read over a million documents as part of their overall review. Unfortunately, a lot of the same perpetrators were the same people they are talking about the talking with. I think it is understandable where if youre only talking to any of these same factors, of course theyre going to say that were not biased at all. I was begging him to let me provide some input. And unfortunately for whatever reason, is another example of Civil Liberties not truly being respected. But also the rule of law not being respected. Because theres the privacy act of 1974 which gives american citizens, if the government is keeping workers on you. You have the right to review that information particular before they distributed to the entire world. So there are a lot of problems in that december

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