Library and museum. On behalf of my library and foundation colleagues i am delighted to welcome all of you for watching tonight program online. Thank you for joining us this evening. I would also like to acknowledge the generous support of her underwriters of the Kennedy Library forms. Lead sponsors bank of america and the Lowell Institute and her media sponsors, the boston globe and wbur. We look for to a robust question and answers this evening turkey will see full instructions on the screen for submitting your questions via email or in the comments on our youtube page during the program. We are so grateful to have this opportunity to explore president kennedys earlier years in depth with a distinguished speakers this evening. This is the first major work about president kennedy in many years we have been anticipating this for some time. Much of the research took place in the Kennedy Library archives and we are very pleased to learn more about this, rancid new look of president kennedys formative years. I am not allowed to introduce tonight speakers. So glad to welcome Fredrik Logevall back to taking a library virtually. He is a professor of International Affairs and professor of history at harvard university, a specialist on u. S. Foreign relations history and modern international history. He is the author or editor of nine books including inverse of work which won the Pulitzer Prize for history, and the francis parkland project. Jfk coming of age in the amers his newest book. Im also pleased to extend a warm welcome to George Packer our moderator for this evening. A staff writer for the atlantic, his nonfiction books include our men, Richard Holbrooke and into the American Century, a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. The unwinding, 30 years of american decline which won a National Book award. The assassins gate, american in iraq. In the blood of the liberals. He is also the author of two novels and a plate and the editor of a twovolume edition of the essays of george orwell. Please join me in welcoming our special guests. Welcome everybody. I see theres at least a couple hundred of you, which is fantastic, and it will be a privilege and a pleasure to talk to read tonight and get our heads out of the present an out of the news for an hour or an hour and half and into the past which is a great refuge as well as a guide for us as we try to navigate one of the storm is years in our lives. Fred, i knew as the author of i think the two essential books on the vietnam war, and its not just me saying that. People i know who fought in vietnam who served in vietnam when asked him what of the books i have to read on the war when those researching my pocket Richard Holbrooke who served in vietnam said, oh, thats easy. Choosing war, and embers of war are the same guy, Fredrik Logevall. I knew you as a vietnam expert but now i know you really as something broader, as a new american expert and someone who shares a lot of interests with me in American History and Foreign Policy. Its great to get to talk to you about your completely engrossin engrossing, and source a link which is a word David Kennedy of the new york of the New York Times used in this book review, new biography of jfk. So welcome, fred, and welcomeo our audience. And i guess the first question is inevitable, but why another biography . There has been a major one in sometime but there are dozens. It takes a little bit of chutzpah to wade into those waters were so many other writers have gone and we thought we knew everything there was to know. So why did you take this on . Well first off, george, treatment is to be with you enter this opportunity to talk with you about all the stuff. It could be just not listening to you that in with our two most recent books, mine and our men, are kind of bookings because mine is really the beginning of the American Century and yours is about the latter part. May we can talk about that. The great to be on with you. I think ive been fascinated by john f. Kennedy and a kennedys for a long time. I had written about kennedy and other context especially relating to the cold war and in particular vietnam and, of course, in volume two which is still to come that vietnam question of what i like to call the mother of all counterfactual, namely, will be a dent in vietnam he survived . Its partly this interest in the kennedys, partly a sense that this hit me one day walking in harvard yard, a book that is berkeley but i could also use my training as a historian and use ten days of life to tell the story not just of his rise but americas rise, that you could map the rise of the United States to great power status come to superpower status on Jack Kennedys like he was born in 17 right as the u. S. Is entering world war i. Hugely important conflict of course. Dyson 62 which is arguably the things of american power. Prior to the mess in vietnam. So its of those two things and then maybe a third, george, which is that the materials in the library are just so phenomenal. And i knew this. The library that is hosting tonight event. They are so good, i thought a lot of them have not been tapped by a lot of people so there was something kind of fresh about them. And then it says about how please is used, they are out there but no one has really done i think a kind of comprehensive life and times that im trying to do here. And you knew about the materials in the library from your Vietnam Research . I knew about it from the work on vietnam. I knew about it from some extent from other researchers, graduate students of mine and others who said, you know, incredible folders, files, documents in the library. Some of them use, a lot of them have it and use all that much. And, of course, stuff has come available. But it was probably because of my own private research, no question. You actually zeroed in on documents that you always knew were there when she commit yourself to this project like you said im going to, box 291, folder 73 because i know whats there are no and has ever used it. Obviously some of this in terms of the specific collections a specific folders, i had to see them myself up close but i knew a terrific biography of joe, sr. I was able as historians would we all do d you do this yourself, you look in the nose and you see to look what other people have done. I could see what david and few other people have done in terms of particular collections. Some of which ive not been open and available prior to that work. One of the marvelous things about the library even though our relatively small percentage of the librarys collections have been digitized, nevertheless, some great stuff, george. Anybody can access from the couch. Theres stuff available that means you can see without having to darken the doorways of this library, but its a great collection. How did you approach the genre of biography since i dont think you would written one, right . Its not the same thing as the history of war or the history of even two years decisionmaking about a war. Its more of, i would say a little closer to the problems that confront a novelist because you have to fill your book with characters, and especially with one character, and bring that character to life. All the harder, everyone always thinks they know that character so how did you approach the genre, the unknown genre of biography and what models did you use or what guidance did you give yourself as you figured out how to research and write it . Thats so interesting especially given that you yourself offered novels and so you have since of what you are describing. Thats totally fascinating to me. I think quite right, history and biography are not the same thing. I have come to realize how different they are in some ways. There are also important similarities. Its about finding evidence. Its about trying to figure out what happened. In this case its suited on a particular life but there are similarities here between his work and the work i have previously done. There also different. I think i had been fascinated by the kennedys. Is is in some ways the Great American story. This family, its an extraordinary one, beginning at a begin the book with the arrival of both the kennedys and the fitzgerald in the middle part of the 19th century and then of course joes rise in particular, that is to say, joe, sr. , this huge family, this marriage to rose. Jack was a sickly child emerges from this, and i wont say i thought the story would write itself or it turns out they never do but it did think this has Great Potential for me as a historian but also as somebody whos interested in biography and once to see if i can make this work, a kind of, as a said, both telling to an artist at the same time, both kennedy story in the end and americas story. Can i just briefly tosses back to you . Because you have this experience, george, how would you answer your own question . In terms of how you approach this with respect to our men . I had a different problem, which was Richard Holbrooke of the time my book came out was a fading figure in American Foreign policy. He kind of dominated many rooms in many news events in his lifetime but he was not on the scale of jfk, not close. Actually first went into the Foreign Service under jfk, his call to service that inspired holbrooke to join the Foreign Service. I felt that he needed to grab the reader with the first paragraph and never let that reader go, or else they would abandon the project because, who cares . That was my great fear, who cares . You didnt have that problem. People care about jfk. I begin my book about holbrooke in the voice of a novelist, even though the book as 35 pages of notes and is as accurate as i could possibly make it. It begins holbrooke, yes, i knew him as if you are about to hear a long yarn by some of the new holbrooke and that is the forsaken the entire book. It gave me a kind of freedom to do things that traditional biographies dont do, but always within the guidelines of the contract that the reader, which is that all has to be true. I tried to make it sound like just a great yarn that you want to sit down and here through a long night storytelling. You and i talked about this before but i think it succeeds just marvelously when we on the show together. It was great fun to talk about this. Just one thing if i may that you say i think in the early pages which i thought about and which would be fun to talk about a little bit. I am paraphrasing, i didnt have a chance to look at this before we came on but you said Something Like only in fiction can ever really get to know a person deep inside. And i thought about that because jack kennedy, many people think, and maybe this is true, somewhat elusive. Some people warmed me early on your never going to get close to the sky because of that nature that he had. Yet some of his mothers emotional patterns. I think youre so right in this and yet i hope readers will have to tell you what i write, i think we do get, i think i can get, given your parameters that only in fiction can we ever really know. I hope i get fairly close. I think you do. I think i wrote this to you personally. I think its sitting there on the book jacket now, this brings us so close to jfk. It is really an intimate picture, and we should talk about how you achieve that. But i think readers will find this is engrossing, its a page turner, thats because you always right there in the middle of a scene or very close to the characters, and yeah, there is of course he is on conic and detached and always observing his life and everyone else. Thats his character but the things that created that character i didnt understand very well until i read your book. Lets talk about that but two things at once. Your book doesnt begin but his story begins the month before we enter world war i. This is an interesting parallel to mind because holbrooke was born in 1941 which is that of the year the American Century began when we entered world war ii. Tell me about your decision to frame jfks life as a life of the American Century began in 1970 and what that means for our understanding of americas rise to global power. It mightve been earned his make may, the late great harvard historian, member of this department that i am now in, i think it mightve been ernie hill road, at this struck me of the time i was a graduate student, Something Like this, which is we think of the American Century beginning in 194041 or conceivably you could say maybe the late 30s. Some might say 1945 which i think might not be correct. But ernie said no, in fact, americas contribution to the war in 1917 in 1918 was formidable and because of the degree to which the european powers were decimated by that great conflagration, though it wasnt fully evident at the time, sagacious, farsighted europeans understandings undera matter of time for the americans were going to be dominant on the world stage. And in a sense there was a delay in the 20s and 30s american statesman, leaders were not quite sure what the what to do. I write about this in the book. Did they want the responsible of the leadership . Maybe not. But i still feel comfortable in saying that 1917 is absolutely critical to the American Century for two reasons the u. S. Entry into the war and then of course the bolshevik revolution which becomes so crucial later on and crucial to Jack Kennedys life. Physically the cold war that defined kennedys public life begin in 1970 basically the two powers of the cold war, their trajectory in collision with each other began in 19 you could make that argument. I think would say i sometimes say to questions often ask them about when does the cold war begin . If you look at the characteristics of the cold war which also happen to come and i say how many of those characters were present in 1917 . It turns out that maybe only two or three of them were. One of the might be a deep ideological schism, but some of the things that would be associate with the cold war which is great arms race, for example, suppression of interpol dissidence. Some of that we seek right after world war i also in the United States and thats of course also in the soviet union. A bipolar World Structure as opposed to a multipole for World Structure some of those may not be present in 1917 what i said very smart students interesting students make a pretty compelling case for 1917 as the start date of this superpower confrontation. Did you have a preconception about jfk going into this . Did you have a picture of him that youre going to then draw, or did you begin relatively agnostic and come here picture through the research . I think i had a sense to really its a really interesting question. I think i have since even when i begin from my work on indochina and the fact he visited in 1951 the beginning of embers of war. When he goes and asks all phase penetrating questions about what the french are trying to achieve. I think i have since that the common view of Young Jack Kennedy as a callow, kind of playboy, who had everything handed him, who was a very serious about anything, and only later became mature, striking politician i have since that was maybe not correct. I think the research i did, again the materials in the library are so marvelous i think show beyond a doubt that this is a guy who from an early age is serious about policy, deeply curious about the world. That is sort of a a half answe. It is suggesting i had an inkling that it wanted to revise what was a common view editing the research actually supports this. Some of the most riveting pages are young jacks trip to europe in 1939 when europe is moving rapidly toward war, and hes having a mix of a kind of rich boys vacation along with access to the most important counsels of government all across the continent, churchill, chamberlain, hitler. Doesnt he see hitler give a speech . No. To his regret never did see him give a speech. He was there and they had an opportunity to hear hitler at nuremberg and decided not to do it. Then they said we should have gone. But in 39 nevertheless, as you say, it was almost like a salad quality degree to which he shows up in these places that become a hot spot. Open the book, i open the preface within in berlin in late august of 39 and even carries a message from the u. S. Consular official, the ambassador had left but the senior government in berlin its in the message to carry back to his father was the ambassador to britain, joe kennedy, sr. The message says the germans are going to attack poland within the week. You have this kind of intrepid guy. He is benefiting from his fathers connection. He wouldnt be able to travel to these places and see these people if joe, sr. Was already ambitious for his two sons in particular the two eldest sons, but its also im sorry, its also jfks alone early striving and motivation. Lets talk about his parents and his relation to them. Because when i said early i felt i understood his character much better from your book, it was really because a special relationship with his father, the relationship with his mother is distant and i wouldnt be the first to say may be the source of some of his misogyny, because his mother let him down. She wasnt around for a lot of his child. Of course his father wasnt either but the mother was expected to be and the father was not. By this father comes across, joe kennedy comes across as, lets just say he made me feel like a lame father because he is just constantly arranging activities and events and everyday is scheduled and were going to go yachting in the morning and play football in the afternoon and then will discuss Current Events at dinner and reading at night. Hes incr