Im excited to welcome karen nyman today to discuss this new book rich white men, what it takes to uproot the Old Boys Club and transform america. Its no secret that our country has a problem when it comes to wealth inequality and systemic racism and patriarchy have only exacerbated the advantages of wealthy white men in rich white men and women. Brings us into the enclaves of the silver spooned white men to illuminate their role in the world, how they justify inequality. Rich white men reveals that you realize americas founding aspiration life, liberty and the pursuit of we must recognize, dismantle and transform our Current System into one that liberates all of us. Garrett neiman is a serial nonprofit with a focus on social justice. He is the founding ceo of college, a National College . Of course not a National College access nonprofit that was recognized by the Obama White House. He was also a cocreator of the liberation ventures, a philanthropic focused on building power toward federal reparations, currently he serves as a senior fellow at prosperity now and a practitioner in residence at the Stanford Center on poverty and inequality. Nieman will be in conversation with gary cunningham, the former and ceo of prosperity. Now a National Organization dedicated to racial and ethnic Economic Justice, headquartered here in washington, d. C. For more than 20 years, gary has served as a top leader, Philanthropic Health care, Public Policy and educational organizations. He was associate superintendent of the minneapolis public schools, the Deputy Director of civil rights for the city of minneapolis, and the ceo of the metropolitan Economic Development association, a Minority Organization among many other titles. Everyone, please join me in welcoming garrett and gary to politics and. So thank you so much. That was such a kind introduction. And i just want i want to can we give it up for . Policies and pros and just can we give it up for Washington Literacy Center really want to thank and im looking forward to going to golf golf tournament. So my name is gary kind of have already been introduced but i am so pleased to be here tonight because i have known garrett only screen for four years over a year. So when he came to me with his idea that he had already been doing on this issue of ridge white men and i couldnt help but reach out and support him because we know that in many ways the and concerns cant just be taken up by one group of people and we cant just sing to the choir. We also have to convert people to the of social and Economic Justice in this country. And part of that is is confronting the reality of the elites that are driving and creating some of the issues we have between all of us. So garrett is such a pleasure to have you here today. And and that you finally got this book out. Yeah, absolutely. This has been seven years in the making. And so i was thrilled that came out yesterday. Yeah. And so i want you to start by really just talking about yourself and giving folks an understanding who you are and what what drove you to write this book about rich white . Absolutely. So. So i grew up in orange county, california which some of you may know is a pretty white, affluent suburb. So that was my initial initial upbringing and probably what shaped my most my life the most growing up was that when i was six, my younger brother in an accident, i was six, he was two and a half it completely turned my familys whole life upside down, as you might imagine. And it was really going through that experience. I think, gave me a sense that life, short life, ought to be seen as precious. So i think i always prioritized relationships like always had a social change orientation, wanted to do work that was meaningful, but at the same time, growing up, i didnt have any systemic analysis related to race, class or anything else and really got recruited into a charity orientation that i raised money for my sisters, for my orphanage she was she grew up in china. My family adopted her, you know, did that in high. And then when i was in college at stanford, started a college nonprofit called the College Spring, helping low income students of color prepare for the sats in college and, you know, raised 50 million, led a staff of 25, built that into National Organization and on the one hand, it was this big success that the Obama White House recognized as an forbes 30 under 30 and all these things. But on the other hand, it also felt strange because it felt like programs ours were really ill equipped to address the full suite of barriers that our students face. And along the way, i was seen as philanthropists. The book starts with an anecdote with a financial billionaire who we thought was going to make 1,000,000 donation to help our program grow. And then when he found out we served all the students, the school, he said they didnt want money going down the drain on the lazy kids that he only supports achievers. So once he knew that we didnt only support high achievers, he was no longer interested and it took that really kind of shocking, overt bias to shake me out of my day to day and really start what was really going on. And so that led me down a road of philanthropy and inequality critique. And basically this notion that the ways that social change actually happens doesnt align that well with what i had been taught at stanford that was very explicit that, you know, things like government and movements were a way of the past and that what we really needed was social enterprise, sustainable businesses and forth. And the experience i had at College Spring really led me to question all of that and not just question that, but also what is my role in the work as somebody who has a lot of it vantages that i basically became a skeptic of white led organizations and communities of color as i was leading one. And so the last several years has been really about trying to reckon with and explore that reality further and is central to whats covered in the book. Wow thats thats quite a quite a journey. So could you tell me, you know, could you do you consider yourself a rich white man or. Im just trying to. Then where do you position yourself in this continuum . I consider i myself a rich white man and i, i and we, in the context of the book that regard and i think the way i think about it is, you know, so i grew up, you know, thinking myself as middle class, maybe middle class. Ive learned that a lot of americans describe their backgrounds that way, regardless of what their exact situation is and basically what ive learned over time particularly as ive interacted with very wealthy people through philanthropy, that the way that most describe rich, as i understand, it is richer than whatever i am that i met someone who had a 300 million family foundation, who talked about how it was a Little Family foundation. I talked to a multibillionaire who talked about how there is only so much he could because he wasnt as rich bill gates or Warren Buffett and if you go on the Gates Foundation website, bill gates actually talks about how he has his foundation has less money than some countries, you know, so that people shouldnt overestimate, you know, his power and influence and what hes able to do. And to be clear at some countries because gates actually has more and more resources than certain countries on this planet, you know, so instead of looking this notion that rich is just rich or then you whatever i am, you know, i started try to look at it through a different lens. I think the the moment actually where i identified as rich was that i saw racial wealth percentiles. So it was that percentiles of wealth by race slice off for white folks and black folks and asianamerican folks, latinx folks. And what learned was that the the top 1 for black indigenous and latin x families in the us. This was a few years ago was about 1,000,000 you know so you know so while my family was not a top 1 family by the overall us standards that you know someone as someone who grew in a wealthy white suburb with access to intergenerational wealth and so forth, through the idea, through the eyes of those who are oppressed in this country that my family was extremely wealthy and you know that led me to other statistics, like the fact if all the wealth in the world were evenly distributed, it only comes out to 50,000 per person. So its about 200,000 for a family of four. So thats thats your share of a family. And so, you know, that i started to think about, you know, people who have millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, billions of dollars and so forth, that that all of those are folks who have more than their share of the planets resources. And it actually would take a lot of economic for a really long time, for even 1 million to be a familys share of wealth on this planet. You know, all of that led me to a place to to look at the definition of rich differently and really try to think through what is actually enough. Like, what do need for for my family for my children and, you know, what does it look like to . Have communities of support where i know that i can rely on other people in my life that i dont have to have millions of dollars tucked away for some emergency scenario. What does it look for me to live in a way that i have support from my community. So ill leave it there. Yeah. No, thats. Thats great. So. So i know what everybodys dying here is, but could you give the core elements of whats in the book so that we can get a, like, a snapshot of it or a synopsis so people can understand the philosophical underpinnings of what youre writing about . Absolutely. So the the book is organized in two parts. So the first part of the book is called how the Old Boys Club reproduces itself. And then the second part of the book is called becoming equitable. So the first part of the book really really talks about the and challenges related to the culture and structure of our society. And in particular, it anchors on a term that i coined, its not a new idea, but its a new term called compounding unearned advantage, which is the idea that seemingly small identity based unearned advantages when they show up key moments in peoples lives, they change trajectories. So its an alternative way of talking privilege, which is, as i imagine everybody here knows, is is a top. It is a phrase that can be activated for folks and compounding under an advantage. The way i think about it in my own life example is when i was in second grade, i took the exam to, be in the gifted program. I actually didnt get the required test scores i needed to be gifted, but it turns out was a district to work around where a teacher could submit a portfolio on my behalf and then have me be labeled gifted. If the district approved it. And thats what happened in my case. That my teacher advocated on my behalf, submitted the portfolio, and then i was tracked into gifted in that. Thats what enabled me to be you know in the most rigorous courses with the best teachers and most personal attention. Its also what enabled me to be for ap courses, which was required for being admitted to a college like stanford, which opened more and more doors. So, you know, its this case where, you know, i think when i was little, i thought that it was just i was gifted and it was just, you know, just something that happened that was right or fair or helpful. I think, as ive learned more about it ive learned things like the fact that white teachers typically believe that white students are higher potential or. Ive learned that parents google twice as often as my son gifted than is my daughter gifted. Teachers in affluent are able to provide more Additional Support for students like submitting a portfolio. Parents of from affluent families are able to advocate more for their for their children. You know so theres all these ways that the different unearned advantages in my life showed up at these key moments that put me on a different trajectory and because america is such a winner take all type economy, those seemingly small identity based unearned advantages can result in very society. Societal disparities. And so thats the first half of the book, and then the second half really talks about how to dismantle compounding under an advantage and and why thats in the interest of all of us, including those who are currently advantaged in our society. Wow, that sounds like a mouthful. So, you know, you know theres so much polarization right now in our in our country, in the world included that in that. Im just wondering do you think is your goal to kind of increase that polarization or decrease it or what whats the goal of your work. Yeah, its its its a really good question and polarization is complicated and and challenging and its interesting that a of times im asked about the work i do like is it divisive and you know one of the things that i learned actually is that the etymological roots of democracy it actually if you go all the way back its initial meaning is to divide. So the idea behind democracy is actually to have differences of opinion and have those shared and discussed and worked through. And i think the work that im doing, i believe, is really focused on advancing that. Its focused on amplifying voices that dont necessarily get weight in our society. And so, you know, so i think thats one part of it. I think the other thing i would say is that social justice issues in america have always been divisive. You know, divisive. I dont think theres ever been a case where its not the case that, you know, an example i often think of is dr. King, never had the support of the majority of White Americans the entire time he was alive. Like never at any point did the majority of White America support him. And still, you know, civil rights laws, legislation passed, you know, so, you know, when i think about the work that im do and i think some people some people get a little bit nervous that i have some fantasy that i just you know, going to hand all the rich white men this book and then theyre going to completely change their views, you know, give up all their wealth and power. And thats not how i see it, but what i have learned is that if a small even a small number of people who have a lot of advantages go out a little bit on a limb and try to do things differently that it can be very motivating and inspiring to other people and help shift culture and structures in ways thats really meaningful. So do you see rich white as the problem is, its a good and and its interesting that i think when people come across a book called rich white men i think theres theres often an assumption that thats what im saying which i think is interesting in its own right because its just descriptive that it doesnt, you know, necessarily eerily say anything about that demographic. But i think the way i would describe the problem is, is less about white men specifically and more like what does it look like to live in a society that where wealth, power is very concentrated and where theres very high inequality, you know, and you know, rich white men have had power in this country for four centuries, but also theres theres people who abuse in different ways before that. So, you know, society has these, you know, moments where, you know, where power is concentrated to different degrees and this i think its never been great or it hasnt been great in a long time. But i think were in a moment where that inner not just in wealth but also in power is extremely high and theres so many negative effects that come from that for a society that theres a real a real pressure and urgency. I feel about addressing that concentrate and wealth and power in this moment. So in 2021, prosperity and the other and belonging sooner out of the university of california near berkeley did a National Poll. And in that National Poll we talked about the you know, americas reaction george floyd and what should be done about police violence, etc. But the second part of the poll really focused economic inequality and of the while we found lot of similarities. But on race. So there was areas where we thought that there could be some coming together. We were surprised to find that on economic inequality specifically programs to help africanamericans in that many whites, about only 20 of whites thought anything be done within this. So im just wondering from your perspective, given that, you know, if in fact, that holds true to the today that only 20 of whites really think we that anything should be done and 80 of blacks and 70 of hispanic think something should be done, how do we bridge that divide, given that we have this Power Dynamics that you just talked . Yeah. So so i think about this in a couple of different levels. So one one version is just like is it is it possible to address inequality and a significant way like does this country have the resources to do it if it wanted to . And then the second part is like, what does it actually take to build the political will necessary for those policies to be . And i think the the answer to the first question is a like a really obvious yes that theres enough wealth and resources in this country to support a really wide range of progressive policies. So i give the in the book of how in San Francisco for example you know larry page, sergey brin, who are the cofounders of google, have about 100 billion in wealth. So, you know, larry page could for the 30 for 30,000 families in San Francisco who live in poverty. So larry page could an endowment that provides a 100,000 income to every family in poverty in San Francisco in perpetuity like that for that number of families, he could fund it in perpetuity. That would cost 60 billion. So hed have 40 billion left over. So thats one person, you know, who can provide a, you know, a pretty High Standard of living to an entire city by himself if if he chose to and, you know, then if you talk about race specific policies like reparations and you know so