Transcripts For CSPAN2 Robert 20240704

It looks like this where americans can see democracy at work and the republic thrives. Get in a form to straight from the sores on cspan, unfiltered, unbiased word for word from the Nations Capital to wherever you are to get the opinion that matters most is your own, this is powered by cable. April, 1865 brought the confederate surrender and assassination of president Abraham Lincoln. Inre this period of uncertainty americans wondered how the new president Andrew Johnson would lead the divided nation. Ss to attack the policies and a number of lectures across the country johnsons conflict with congress over reconstruction led to the impeachment and in their records of the National Archives is the resolution to impeach johnson written on a scrap of paper and introduced in the house of representatives february 21, 1868. Three days later the house voted 128 to 47 to adopt the resolution. In the failed promise, they portray the conflicts that brought Frederick Douglass and the community to reject Andrew Johnson and call for a guilty verdict in the trial. The distinguished professor of english and distinguished scholar and teacher at the university of maryland at college park. The most recent books before the failed promise or the lives of douglass and in 19th century American Literary studies. Levine has received fellowships from the endowment of the humanities and the guggenheim foundation. In 2014 the American Literature section of the Language Association awarded him a metal free Lifetime Achievement in American Literary studies. Now lets hear from robert levine. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for that kind introduction. Its a real honor to be here. Im going to do a slideshow and talk through what i do in the book so im going to share the screen. This is the cover of the book and again i want to thank david for the introduction. What i like about the cover is underneath the red is a page from the articles of the impeachment plus i like pictures and the whole color scheme. The aim of the book is to provide a perspective on the early years of reconstruction 1865 o to 1868 on Andrew Johnson and on the impeachment itself which occurred in 1868. Most of the studies of the impeachment focus on the wide radical republicans. The africanamerican perspective on the reconstruction and impeachment focusing on Frederick Douglass and other black activists reconstruction was about a block Voting Rights and rights to citizenship. They a were concerned about antiblack racism inn the north northand south and had their own problems with johnson and let me say i tried to tell a story about the relationship between douglas and johnson that hasnt been told before. I think it is interesting and i try to do it in a novelistic way. Heres what i call the adversaries. They were formidable figures. They dressed well. Johnson was a former taylor, douglas felt it was important in his photographs and some q views the most photographed man wanted to depict himself against the stereotype so he tends to look serious in his pictures. Johnson and douglas met only twice in person and that is lincolns second inauguration march 14th 65 when he gave his famous speech and at the white house february 7th when johnson was president. But they shadow each other throughout johnsons presidencyt and johnson even made douglas a job offer in 67. Today i will talk about some key moments of the relationship. Lets startg with the first meeting between douglas and johnson in march of 65 after lincolns second inauguration. Heres a famous picture of lincoln and if you can see the arrows its right around here. My historian friends say douglas is right around here in the second row. Im not entirely sure of that but douglas was at the inauguration because Abraham Lincoln who met with douglas twice earlier at the white house invited him to the inauguration. After the speech, douglas tried to get into the reception at the white house and was stopped by security but was eventually vouched for and asked douglas how he liked the speech and told the group that douglas was his great friend. Douglas walked away, lincoln was joined at the reception and let president douglas told the story of what happened next. This is from the life and times of Frederick Douglass so about 16 years later. Standing at m the crowd he poind him out the first expression was the true bidder content seemed i observed him he tried to assume a more friendly appearance but was too late. Ee its useless to close the door when all has been seen. First was the smile of the demagogue. Whatever Andrew Johnson may be, he is no friend of ours he. Im an english professor and i like this idea of a door opening and closing showing johnsons true field. Its retrospective and i dont think that its fully believed. Douglas celebrates lincoln as a savior and during the civil war he often attacks lincoln at one point as a confederate leader. I start with of this moment and back in time i want to also point out how he ended up being lincolns Vice President and also make the point that a lot of people thought including that he would be a great Vice President. On but there was something promising that brought him to the attention of the Republican Party. Johnson again put his life on the line calling for the abolition of slavery. But the republicans feared they would lose the election and in october of 64 this is a key moment while johnson gave a famous speech in which he declared before a large crowd in nashville they hadnt been createdro by the emancipation proclamation. It was widely reported and celebrated. Johnson also became obsessed with the speech and referred to it again and again whenever he wanted to make the case. Theres a few passages from the newspaper accounts of the speech. In due time it will be revealed to you. He says this after he is declared which he wasnt authorized to do. You are our moses and then johnsons response worthy as i am i will lead you through to a fair future of liberty. I think he was kind of caught up in the energy. To returnco to the reception for the inaugural, douglas said he saw a racist but im not sure if thats what he saw in 65 when he was in the white house or in 1881 j long after the terrible presidency. The fact is when johnson took office in 1865 after the assassination of lincoln, some fault that he would be more progressive. And i want to offer just a few words here before he sold johnson from a distance at the second inauguration, douglas was committed to the civil war and he wanted more than emancipation. He wanted the full rights of citizenship. In this slide i refer to the douglas argument basically clung for emancipation in the civil war and the new citizenship and the mission of the board and 63 in syracuse and 64 and then virtually every day of the Johnson Administration he would again and again Say Something like this. Slavery is not abolished until the black man has the ballot. So garrison announced that the society could disband. The job was over. Douglas said there was a boat and they decided they would pursue not just the antislavery but in a larger sense, citizenship. This is basically what douglas is arguing for the rest of his life. Johnson became the 17th u. S. President a little more than a month after lincolns second inauguration. The douglas at this point in the spring and summer of 65 had nothing negativead to say. Initially they seemed to like johnson and here is an image of charles sumner, senator of massachusetts and Thaddeus Stevens, congressman from pennsylvania. Lincolns Republican Party and now johnsons Republican Party was dominated by the radicals who wanted the Confederate States to be reconstructed. In addition in 1865 they wanted the former leaders of the confederacy out of power and a black man to have the right to vote. They sold johnson as a fellow traveler someone who shared their views. Charles sumner, for example, said he agreed with everything he said and voted and concluded johnson is the sincere friend and ready to act for him. As i elaborate in the book other radical republicans s have simir responses in april and even today. But then things started to change. Was he like most other men or even worse . Johnson issued an amnestylo that allowed the federal states to return to the union as they have been for the civil war except without slavery. They could remain in power in the states and petition but that wasnt a problem. The commitment was to the restoration with a wild idea that the states never succeeded because the session wasnt allowed by the constitution. The story says thats like saying a murderer couldnt have killed because murder is against the law. According to the restoration, it should be watched over and guidedes by the president. In short, he believed in the restoration and the republicans continue to call for the congressional reconstruction. The president and congress were in conflict over the next three years. Interestingly, they continued to see him as black moses. In the white house and even the possibility of the limited suffrage you mentioned the semiprivate letter and even in the first presentation to congress. It might be given with of the right to vote but nothing came of that. He fought against the republicans. He became more and more reactionary in response to the radical republicans. Frederick douglass and other africanamericans turned on him more quickly. They compared him to the president of the confederacy and warned the games of the civil war were on the verge of being lost because of the treachery. Douglas and other black activists believed that something needed to be done and that takes us to douglas second meeting february 7th, 1866. These are two members of the group. George downing was a black activist. He was at restaurant tour from rhode island that moved to washington d. C. He had become friends with charles arbiter. He got the job of being in charge of the. He was the leader of the group. Dallas was the first son of frederick and ana. I had worked with his father as a journalist. He was the corresponding secretary was involved in writing responses about the meeting. And one thing i want to emphasize here and i emphasize this throughout the book it. Hes not acting alone. An activist and part of what i really explore. The he was going to serve as publicity. He had a sonographer, who is a wellknown as a pioneer in shorthand. He could take wonderful notes. He thought the meeting would go really well. Would show once again. A transcript of the meeting appeared in a d. C. Newspaper that night. Which was an incredible tribute to the stenographer and a corrected version appeared the next morning. That account appeared in newspapers around the country. I found it ina newspapers in nevada and california for example. The meeting was basically an effort to get johnson on board with promoting, advocating blacks right to vote. The meeting with Something Like this. He led thehe group they agreed O Johnson Johnson greeted them. There was some small talk back and forth and then johnson launched into a speech that douglas later said took about an hour. But the transcript suggest it was not that long because johnson was interrupted by questions from the blacks over there. Johnson became a bit aggressive. The blacks themselves were aggressive. Nd and he felt defensive around black people he would tell them i am your moses. This particular moment he says to the delegation and i quote, i have said and i will repeat here the coloreded vent in the United States could find no other moses or any moses when he more able e and efficient than myself, i would be his moses to lead him fromom bondage to freedom. This itey went into discussion they said their goodbyes. Frederick douglass who is a performer and i think we wanted to get under johnsons skin with out the door is about to leave and he says to johnson, look, if the president will allow me i would like to say one or two words in reply. Franchisor enemies and disenfranchise your friends. By which he meant to enfranchise the people during the civil war, the confederates who said we are enemies you disenfranchise the black people the black men particular who fought for the union during the civil war. This infuriates a johnson and comes back and forth and johnson and douglas. The transcript shows this went on for quite a while. This is a snippet from the exchange in which douglasas says understand he is an organic right to vote he will raise up a party in the Southern States who will rally with him. You speak a up between the wealy slave owner and the poor meant the emphasis as this will be good for democracy. Johnson was found to touch upon their suggest immigration. He had in his power to your he could get. This is a pretty bold statement. Blackk people can leave the souh he may even be saying black people can lead the United States. But douglas did to the exchange is exposed johnson for what he was. He didntor care about black people this was important. Johnson was frustrated by the meeting it got away from him. I got out of his control. Privately he beats after with some aides one of whom describes decide at the parenthesis he was a johnson supporter but according to that letter this is what johnson said quote. They thought they had i know that douglas he is like any and he uses the n word. Are your later he would offer douglas a job. But for now let me say this. The black delegation quickly crafted a response to Johnson Douglas and his son probably wrote that it appeared in the next days washington d. C. Newspaper as the frame to the scranton transcript of the meeting it helped to shape how to read the transcript douglas and the delegation had real immediate savvy. Meeting was a turning point it exposed johnson. That may has been his main purpose. Johnsons friends came to his defense it was back and forth in the newspapers. Black newspapers and progressive journals printed the exchange they turned against johnson. This is what douglas had said about johnson a few weeks after the meeting speaking. What should be said of him that told us the traders must take a backseat the traders being the confederates. Spoke out against the civil war. Take a backseat the work of restoration the Supreme Control of the states in which they live. What shall be set of him promised to be the moses of the colored race if he becomes instead. Douglas to the accounts, he had better never had been born. Finally the black delegation johnson becomes even more reactionary. In memphis and new orleans. They believed by johnsons racism and his refusal to support black suffrage. This is aat painting who is a character and regular contributor to harpers weekly. Its a painting about the massacres because late july and new orleans. Johnson was not there according to douglas he was there in spirit. Is wearing a crown because critics thought he was like a king at the top of this a bunk here. Thats what johnson said about that Southern Confederate you can read this i am your moses. To the king is watching on as white peoplee are getting down black people and other critics of johnson are coming from. Douglas continued to speak out johnson. Developed a fabulous stump speech called sourcese of danger to the republic which he gave to the first time in the 1860 6a. And then on numerous occasions in 1867. In the book i focus on january 1867 in a black lecture sellers in philadelphia the africanamerican played such an important part in the underground railroad. Hey transcript appeared in a philadelphia newspaper and has not been republished untiled no. Included as an appendix in the book. I think it is fascinating to see talking to emily black audience. In the lecture series francis ellen walked harper is a popular africanamerican poetay fiction writer and lecturer. If you were asked about the lecture she gave also in january titled National Salvation. Again i want to emphasize douglas worked in tandem with other black leaders to oppose it ajohnson and make the case for reconstruction and black rights to citizenship. This is a picture of harper from a book edited by william still. And i want to o show the conclusion of her talk National Salvation which is about racism in the north and south. And begins talking about how black people in philadelphia have a problem using Public Transit racism does not exist. Racism is embodied by andrew njohnson. She says we needed Angie Johnson the country is a Great National to spread himself all over the nation so he might bring a poison of slavery which still lingers in the body politics. What do you do . If you hug it to your bosom and set such a precious thing you cannot put it away rather what you have done with that you throw it aside. So i love that image. He tips the racism out of the National Body andet maybe the nation will be better. Its a danger to the republics. I quicklyus summarize its a really fascinating speech. That does a lot of different things. He says the beginning drive note man because innkeeper know he is concerned about black suffrage. And then he goes after johnson also raises questions about constitution are not enough checks what happens when man and becomes president . How are we going to stop he attacks the one man and points to the president ial veto of power and patronage as too much unchecked power to a bad man. Hes not talking just about johnson he is saying in the future we could have some bad men who might want to become kings like johnson he also sets forth a theory people thought was kind of funny. The people that Andrew Johnson was in fact going to support the south. They had a conspiracy to makent the Vice President into someone whos going to do awful things in terms of reconstruction. So it also says get rid of the vice presidency because of Vice President s are one heartbeat away from the presidency. The going 20 kill the president. And a very strange twist in the Johnson Douglas story that summer in 1867 proposes that a private Cabinet Meeting to appoint douglas commissioner of the Freedmens Bureau to fire oliver otis howell. Are going to have to go quickly rightt now. This is a picture of howard. He lost an arm in the civil war he is a white man but was loved by black people. He was the commissioner of the Freedom Bureau based in washington d. C. Which had offices throughout the south. Was supposed to help black people in terms of education, legal a issues, Money Matters ad so on. Congress at the freedom spirit is regarded as a very important institution. Douglas and other thought howard to stay a good job some of you and the audience know Howard University was named after Oliver Otis Howard which was helped to found this. Either way replacing with douglas made no sense for a president who did not want a radical job except it was way of getting douglas under johnsons control. Majohnson never made a formal offer to douglas he works through the back channels because he did not want to be exposed with going after douglas. Sent douglas third son charles worked at the Freedmens Bureau in washington d. C. Was charged if you would like the job as was william salai eight steward at the white house. The courtship went on and letters for several weeks. Douglas made it clear he did not want then job and then he betrayed the privacy johnson wanted the editor of that newspaper wrote as follows. The grace of black men did not consent this proven mr. Douglas is entitled to the thanks of the country. When outcome to a controversy thatd precipitated the february 1868 impeachment. Johnson wanted to fire edwin was a secretary of war under lincoln and then underer johnson. Such a fight at that time was ndillegal and even an impeachabe offense passed by the Republican Congress in march of 1867. These are snippets from the tenure of office act. Basically im going to paraphrase summits appointed by the senate they have to be removed by the senate not just by the president and violating that will be seen as a height misdemeanor which would be cause for impeachment. In february 1868 johnson decided to fire. No matter what. This is a picture of stanton. He died in 1869. He was fired and what he did after he was fired set im not tired thats illegal. He hid out in his office until the impeachment trial was over. I think that added a lot of stress which might explain why he died later. Okay johnson decides even though its a violation of the office act. Johnson was impeached for violating that act and not resistance to reconstruction but at least that is the case on paper. If you look at the 11 articles of impeachment you will see a few mentions of reconstruction. It is really dominated by the tenure of office act. For that reason the trial itself you can read that online is over 2000 pages its dull its mostly about the legalistic struggles the tenure of office act hasas been violated. The question asked in the book did anyone care . There were no blacks at the trial. There are elements if not many about thent reconstruction. All newspaper reports on the firing in the articles of confederation. Here is an image as the court of impeachment. I will say it was here the galleries were packed virtually every day. A big question where is douglas and all this . My quick answer is he stays on the sidelines for several weeks. The first being he was clearly troubled by what a number of black newspapers told he also did not want a distraction. And also finally he has a son charles as a conduit. This o is a picture of charles. S i look at a number of letters charles is based in d. C. At the office writes his father about the impeachment trial. Sang again and again deserves to be convicted of impeachment he did not ever talk about the tenure of office act. April 16 charles will get two tickets for the trial. He expected his father to come. It is an interesting day because representative from massachusetts Benjamin Beutler attacked johnson for his racism actually said that the chief justice of the Supreme Court who was presiding over the trial basically n said he was out of order that is not what this trial is about. Theyin both turned against chas. Decided not to show up. All eyes would be on him for trapper charles. I am sure some are happy with the impeachment trial there are two articles of impeachment in may of 1868 both fell short by one vote. Douglas, his son Francis Harper many other blacks felt betrayed of ohio the speaker of the house next in line for the presidency to become president because he was a socialist and in part he wanted. S grants as the next president. Charles douglas and his father both believe should have been convicted. They both thought chief justice of the Supreme Court was at fault overly focused on the tenure of office acts. This is an image of chase chase was a former abolitionist who is angling for the president ialin nomination. Gnomic grant whos trying to make the democrats happy. Heres what he had to say about chase. I will paraphrase, charles said he will not support for the president because he helped secure the acquittal of Andrew Johnson. And douglas says that chase the position to seemingly be an advocate for johnson who was serving which can afflict the eyes of men. Led him. I think charles and frederick this was all about principles they had no principles. Douglas is turning down the job from Andrew Johnson had principles. Douglas stayed quiet during the trial but shortly after expressed his unhappiness with what had happened in speeches and newspaper s commentary. With that ratification of the 15th amendment in 1870. He saw blacks rights to vote and the other things the citizens could do. He saw the continuation of jim crow and he saw the Supreme Court complicitous in all of this. Warned americans they were returning to the anti johnson moment. Were going back to the earlier years of reconstruction. This is five years after johnsons death. They betrayed at the blood stained hands o. In the interest of moving on im not going to read the rest of that. It does not like johnson he picks up on the image of johnson as moses. At the end of johnsons presidency back to tennessee. He stuck to black roots in 1860 that reminded them that once whatsregarded him as theiros m. He showed the newspaper clippings of this famous moses speech pretty very perceptively told them was like a form of slavery. He want to hate also had some understanding of what blacks were suffering in the south for that reason in his great 1935 book on black reconstruction calls johnson knopp the most evil man in American History. But ni quotes the most beautiful savior in American History. Johnson had promised. Hate let that doubt is part of what the title is all about. Johnson lost the Congressional Election 1875 was named senator of tennessee the recollections for senate then and served for several months in office before dying in tennessee. He dies not as a hated person that he is generally now. Death of the honorable Andrew Johnson which widely circulated at the time. I got do not see any black people the bedside crying. Meanwhile here is douglas in 1885 years to. Douglas were alive today im moving out to my conclusion. Who have much to say about what is going on in georgia, texas and elsewheres the states restricted Voting Rights which eat no doubt would say takes us back to the day of jim crow. Also remind us of possibilities. One of douglas most famous speeches left a a scorch of blak winch. Everything he fought for seems to be in jeopardy. This was printed at a pamphlet in 1890 foresman to give a lecture. Has a lot of things about the horrors of lynching. These are his concluding words it will be mine as well. Banish the idea one class roll ruleover the other. Reckonings the fact the citizens of the problems will be solved. Whatever is in store for prosperity or adversity. Whether it shall whether there shall be at peace or war based upon the internal principles of truth, justice and humanity appear with no having is because of complaint. The republic will stand large forever. I love thisus conclusion he is basically saying fight the good fight. Continue the good fight based on the ideals of the nation as he understood them. Ideals of democracy and ideals of freedom. Im going to stop there. And i thank you. Will take questions that are on chat. Lets see if i can view them. Did Andrew Johnson ever visit University Good question. I want to say i dont know. But it also what to say i am an english professor who reads a a lot. Arent i read 15 volumes of johnsons papers. Ifsk i had seen he was speakingt this university i would have notice. I would have said no. We note that bureau is formally enslaveded and registering to vote. I think that did happen that would have been around 1870. That bureau shortly thereafter was decommissioned. And that decommissioning allowed for the upsurge of jim crow practices. And efforts these are the only two questions. Looking at the chat i can emphasize a few things about the book. One thing is i tried to offer a nuanced portrayal of Andrew Johnson. Good versus evil. I gave the manuscript to friends and literature and history people are saying youre taking a risk here because we do know johnson was an awful president who failed in the job we all wish you did. I was struck by his efforts. I would say between 1863 and 1865 to reach out to black people and to challenge slavery and even at one point suggest he would be open to the possibility of blacks voting. Those of you who know your American History know Abraham Lincoln himself did not live to see the day when blacks could vote. But his very last a speech speech beforehe was assassinateo groups of black people. The intelligence. What is that, how do you determine that . The second is those who fought in the civil war. He shared with johnson the idea goes in the civil war could vote johnson thought the black property could vote. They came up with this idea of the intelligence wouldve been hard to figure out. All of us would have loved to see what lincoln would have done as president. Lincoln was more pragmatic than johnson. Johnson picked a fight he could pick a fight. What he did. I couldnt listen to black people. Johnson you could say entertains a black people. But he did not listen. The layout of the book johnson had plenty of visits with black groups in the white house in 1865. Abraham lincoln during the civil war. Whatever they said responded to at some points change the policy. The first time douglas visited lincoln he pointed out wages were not the same for black and white soldiers. Lincoln responded by saying its a pragmatic reason for that. But you take that into consideration at lisi listen. White nationals visited the white house in 1864 proposed militant blacks in the for exhibitions against confederates. Lincoln makes them the first black. I t didnt see an johnson evidee same kind of listening. Another thing i emphasize with the book this is an important point worth making. That i did not make all that well perhaps of the talk. Douglas of the black activists were constantly given racism for white people other than an johnson. It is a mistake to say i believe johnson was the only white racists in the United States his views were pretty much supported by white people from 1865 1868. N whenever the question of whether a black people should have a boat came to a ballot in places like new york and minnesota the answer was no. The proposal was defeated. The radical republicans themselveslv could at times be paternalistic. Was in particular among the most radical of the radical regular use the n word. And i have read from 1850 to 1870 regularly use the n word how he was done i will use the word black people. He also said when its cooked by black people entice the blackness of the food. Its not just Andrew Johnson. And in a chapter of the book i did not discuss was a Republican Convention in philadelphia in september of 1866 douglas wanted to attend and Thaddeus Stevens inin particular did not want him there. He did not want a black person there. Might have been involved in a black woman. The pragmatic argument is not good for the American Party to be seen as a black party. Anyway, stephen wrote to his colleagues douglas should not be there. Douglas attends anyway. He is shunned at first. But then his speeches draw people in and on the final day of the convention the group of votes to support black Voting Rights. Very dramatically describes this convention in 1880 when life of douglas. Its one of the proudest days of his life. Not basing down Andrew Johnson. The white republicans. Didd not think johnson supported or attended performances by the jubilee singers. Johnson became much more reactionary by the end of 1865. I dont time to wrap up but i will say by way of conclusion when johnson went on the road in 1869 attempting to become a congressman, mustve had the bloat vote in tennessee. Suddenly he needed them and all of thet speakers he gives about being a black moses its about maternal was sick as you can be. You can also say hes kind of needy. He once love. He once loved for black people. Yet hes doing the worst possible thing to black people while hesil president the irony is precisely because he is the radical republicans have to speed s up the passage of the amendment before so by 1870 Ulysses S Grant is president the question worded things go wrong Andrew Johnson was not there. He was not involved. Its not just about johnson. Talk about reconstruction for black perspective you get a larger sense everywhere and douglas was one of the great fighters against that racism until the time of his death. And was inspired by documents of the nation. It has been a real honor to be here. Thank you. My book was published last week. Thanks again. Weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast. Every saturday American History tv documents america story. And on sunday book tv bring you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. Funding for cspan2 companies Television Companies and more, including cox. Is extremely rare. But friends do not have to be. 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