Cspan3s and American History tv. Now, American History tv looks back 50 years at the Voting Rights act of 1965. We will listen in on white house telephone calls between president johnson and his aides civil rights leader Martin Luther king junior, and members of congress, who strategized how to implement the law. It will be 50 years ago that president Lyndon Johnson passed the civil rights bill. We will be talking to experts as well as going behind the scenes with white house telephone recordings. Lets introduce our experts. Joining us in washington, d c cant germany kent germany. Thank you for joining us. Chef but it is my pleasure. Host our next guest was the secretary of health, education and welfare, and he was the author of the triumph and tragedy of Lyndon Johnson. Thank you for joining us. Host mr. Germany the lbj project, what is that . Mr. Germany it is trying to get all of the recordings transcribed, edited, annotated anything you would need to know to understand what is going on in a conversation. The editors are there. We are trying to put everything out from the assassination. It is Lyndon Johnsons vision of history with the work off and youre talking about a lot of work on with these telephone calls. Host what do the telephone calls reveal . Mr. Germany Lyndon Johnson was extremely busy. He was deeply dedicated to getting very significant Voting Rights legislation passed and he is not going to yield on it. People called him a magician. They called him a lot of different things. But you get to see Lyndon Johnson pulling a lot of different strings. Host what you think that Lyndon Johnson was so intent on getting this done. Mr. Califano he dealt with discrimination and workplace and in schools, but he thought the votings right the Voting Rights act was the most powerful thing he would get past. Africanamericans had been kept away from the polls deliberately in the south for many, many years, and indeed, as i think we may hear, he thought it would take care of 70 of their problems. He told Martin Luther king that. He believed in the vote. That was his life. Remember, this was a guy elected to congress in 1938 and basically was in a house elections, Senate Elections for the remainder of his life and he saw how important votes were when he won big, so he could get Voting Rights and other things past. Host mr. Califano , in your book, you say the part of the reason was he thought it was a race against time. Can you give us a perspective on that . Mr. Califano yes, in triumph and tragedy, which i appreciate you mentioning, he was in a race against time. He thought that once there was light at the end of the title what the oppressed had accepted as inevitable became intolerable. There was inevitable impatience. He always used to say, lets get the bill up there. Lets get it passed. Lets get the departments and forcing it. He was very, very conscious of that, and indeed, to say the people we are trying to help could do the most damage to our civil rights and Voting Rights efforts, as we saw in some of the disturbances the riots in watts, in newark, in detroit over that time. Host lets start by looking at the phone calls. The president is talking to his attorney general. It is the first conversation we hear. It is a month before the Voting Rights act starts. Lets listen to that. President johnson i want you to take the greatest midnight legislative drafting. Basically, i believe if we can have a simple, effective method of getting them register if the state laws are too high it can go to the Supreme Court and get them held unconstitutional. If the registrar makes them stand in line to long, maybe we can work that way out mr. Katzenbach lets go through the other alternatives weve got. President johnson get the best people you have got. See what you can do and we are going to need it pretty quick. Host mr. Califano , lets start with you about that phone call. Not only is he trying to get it quick, phyllis in the fill us in on the blanks there. Mr. Califano that day, he met with Martin Luther king or was meeting with them after that phone call, andrew young. It was generally the conversation what he could do for blacks in the night it states in the United States. He was going to get Voting Rights to the congress and passed in the next year. It was very much on his mind. As i said, he thought it was the crown jewel of his presidency. Host what was the attorney generals reaction . What was the attorney generals concerns . Mr. Califano katzenbach immediately began working with it. It was on the agenda. Nobody thought anything could happen with it. It was a much tougher bill to pass on the 1964 civil rights act. Katzenbach went back to these justice department. I do not know if you will have the phone conversation, the next phone conversation lb g8 lbj had was with dr. King on january 15. I dont want to jump the gun host we are going to exactly get to that in just a bit. Professor germany Lyndon Johnson starts off about the new deal. He wanted this done faster than that midnight legislative drafting party during the new deal. Johnson is deeply rooted into this period. Katzenbach had been there for ole miss. He was the civil rights backbone for the justice department. He was the acting attorney general as Bobby Kennedy had run in one as the senator from new york. He was the person really getting this legislation to go through. He is a fascinating person. World war ii hero, prisoner of war in world war ii. He is an anchor and someone who is often forgotten in the main stream understanding of the civil rights movement. Host lbj had a clear idea of how he wanted to develop the plan other than having others develop it. Is that a Fair Assessment . Professor germany absolutely. He puts together the testimony is going to put before committee. Johnson is a details guy, and katzenbach is going to make sure that the eyes are dotted is ae dotted and ts are crossed. Mr. Califano he looked at the senate the problem was the filibuster. In those days, he was two thirds of the senate, so 67 votes. He had to get 67 votes to break what would be a southern filibuster, and a long southern filibuster. So, he knew whos going to have to work with Everett Dirksen. But still he wanted to have a real sense of the bill. He wanted to know what all of the traps were. He wanted to know how to get it done so it would be effective. He wanted to make sure it would be delivered to him and the justice department, a enough how are so they could really get something done when it came to enforcing what congress passed. As you will see, as we will go a long, Everett Dirksen became a very important part of this legislation, and Lyndon Johnson knew that from the moment, if not before, he talked to katzen bach on the 14th of december. Host president johnson goes to howard university, delivers a speech at howard university, talking about his civil rights division, justice. Lets hear a portion of that speech. President johnson what is justice . It is to fulfill the fair expectations of man. Plus american justice is a very special thing. This has been a land of towering expectations. It is a nation where each man can be rolled by the Common Consent of all. Given life by institutions, guided by men themselves subject to its rule. And all all, of every station and origin will be touched equally in obligation and liberty. Beyond the law lays the land. It is a rich land, glowing with more abundance promise then man had ever seen. Here, unlike any place yet known , all work to share the harvest. Beyond this is the dignity of man. Beyond which whatever his mind and spirit can permit. To strive, to seek, and if he could, to find his happiness. This is american justice. We have proceeded safety we have proceeded faithfully to the edge of our imperfections and we have failed to find it for the American Negro. So it is the glorious opportunity of this generation to end the one huge wrong of the american nation, and in so doing, to find america for ourselves, with the same immense thrill of discovery which gripped those who first began to realize that here at last was a home for freedom. [applause] host it is important to note that he is making the speech at a Historic Black College in the United States. Mr. Germany, what sense do you get from the point he is making from that speech . Mr. Germany he is making an argument that america is not black or white. America is black and white. That will be the core of the soma speech that he makes. You hear early in that summer, he is making this speech this is an american problem this is not just in the words of the day a negro problem. He quotes scripture about lighting ace candle inside and not letting it burnout. It is a fire that cannot burn out. Johnson is tapping into that as well. Host mr. Califano , as you listen to this speech, what is going through your mind . Give us a sense. Mr. Califano the speech was a very important one across the board, as kent was indicating. This was the speech where johnson articulated his notion of affirmative action. Two runners at the starting line, one in chains for years and the other training for years and you call it a fair race when you put them both at the starting line. There is also a very important point to underscore. Lyndon johnson made it to dr. King on many occasions. Lets not call this a bill for negro Voting Rights. This is Voting Rights for all. Everyone is entitled to a right to vote. It is everyones right to vote. I think that is also heart of johnson. Lastly, this point about the dignity when he goes to congress with the Voting Rights bill, he talks about, here for the dignity of man and the destiny of democracy to him the vote was at the core of our nations ability to say we are a democratic society. Host mr. Califano , did he write the speech himself . How much influence it he have on the speech . Mr. Califano he had a lot of input on every speech. A lot of people took a look at it. Harry mcpherson, other staffers. And i do think it is important to remember you can go to the library, you can go to the lbj library and see what he wrote in various drafts. And as you listen to these tapes they have been putting together and making available for years down to the Miller Center and the university of virginia you can listen to the entire speech, which in this case is certainly worth listening to. Host mr. Germany i am interested in the language. What about that . Mr. Germany there were many different lbjs. There was the public statesman lbj. He was a speech teacher. He taught high school speech. That comes out in his public speeches. A lot of times you hear the more colloquial johnson where he lays it out as you would when the door is closed. That is one of the things you get on the private telephone recordings you do not get in these public speeches. The lawyers has an interesting phrase that Lyndon Johnson was the 13 most interesting man he knew in his life. You get all 13 men and these recordings. Host this conversation is between the president and Martin Luther king junior. Before we go to the recording what was the relationship between the two men at the time . Mr. Germany it is tricky. Lyndon johnson he has this massive and electoral victory in 1964. Martin luther king junior, in many parts of the country, is the most hated american. There was a lot of opposition to Martin Luther king junior. There were billboards all over the south claiming he was a communist. Johnson is concerned. There are reports. Herbert hoover despised king and the civil rights movement. Johnson is wary, but you can see evidence that he is an ally. But allies are not necessarily people that go swimming naked in the white house pool, which a lot of people did. Allies are people that often get along the least. So the both of things that they are going for an things that they want to read to that point is the trick in politics. It is the art of the possible. You have two men who were exquisite politicians. Host we will hear that and family will get joe califanos thoughts. Dr. King the only state you did not carry in the state you got less than 40 of the negroes registered to vote. Ia recent article brought this out very clearly, to demonstrate the importance of negroes registered to vote in the south and it will be a coalition of the negro vote in the moderate white vote that will make the new south. President johnson i think that is exactly right. It is important that we take the position that every person born in this country when they reach a certain age, they have a right to vote. And we extend it whether it is a negro or a mexican or who it is. Number two, i think we do not want special privilege for anybody. We won equality for all. We can stand on that principle. I think you can contribute a great deal by getting your leaders, and you yourself taking very simple examples of discrimination a man has to quote the first 10 amendments or he has to tell you what amendment 15, 16, 17 is, and then ask them if they know, and show what happens. Some people do not have to do that but when a negro comes in he has got to do it. If we can repeat and repeat and repeat i do not want to follow heavily. But he had not idea. If you take a simple thing and repeated often enough, even if it was not true people if you can find the worst condition you run into alabama mississippi, louisiana, north carolina. I think one of the worst i ever heard of was the head of the Government Department or something being denied the right to cast the vote. You just take that one illustration, get it on radio and television, get it on in the poll pits, in the meetings every place you can, pretty soon the fellow that did not do anything but drive a tractor, he will say, thats not right. That will help us, what we are going to shove through in the end. Dr. King youre exactly right about that. President johnson if we do that, it will be the greatest breakthrough of anything, not even accepting this e xcepting this 1960 four act. The greatest achievement of my presidency, i said to record yesterday, was the 1964 civil rights act. This will be bigger because it will do things even the 1964 act could not do. Host mr. Califano , your thoughts on this phone conversation . Mr. Califano it shows several things. One, they were partners in the effort to pass this. They were very good politicians. As kent indicated Martin Luther king was a very good politician. Johnson was careful with anybody, but remember, dr. King said, whenever he went to see johnson, all he wanted to talk about was how he could get a law passed. When he went to see president kennedy, the first thing he would be asked was, do you have comments or advice . Now the other very important point that comes out of this, lbj realize he needed that. He needed something to ignite the people so that could put pressure on the congress. It was a big part of what became selma. This took place on january 15. Neither johnson nor king knew anything about selma. It was julian bond, another civil rights leader down there trying to agitate and get the vote, to get people registered to vote and have some kind of demonstration. King comes back to lbj, i believe it was february 9, and he meets with them and tells him, he has the place, the place of soma. Johnson hopes there will be no violence there. There was violence there, with a white minister getting killed and john lewis getting quite beat up. At that point, johnson calls as well as to the white house setting the stage, so to speak. Wallace says to him, i cannot protect the voters and lbj says, dont tell me that, george. Dont tell me that, george. You were able to make sure the votes were there to beat me in alabama. And wallace says he cannot protect the marchers, and johnson indicates to him if he cannot protect the marchers, he will have to protect them he, lbj, will have to protect the marchers. One of johnsons great line switches dont talk to me like that, george. That is bs. It is a lot easier to slip on bullshit then it is on gravel. Johnson has wallace go out to be white house and meet the press knowing wallace will defend all of the segregationist stuff. This was the guy that said segregation forever. Setting the stage for a court case in alabama that ultimately becomes a case that gave marchers the right to vote im sorry, the right to demonstrate and have the march from selma to montgomery and also provided the hook that lbj needed to federalize the Alabama National guard, put it under his control so it could be ordered to protect the marchers as they went in the glorious part of the selma march. Incidentally, in a speech in montgomery, Martin Luther king thanks lbj for what he did. They both knew i think one thing johnson really knew was he needed king to get this legislation passed and king needed johnson using all of his skills, which were enormous and varied, to get the legislation passed. They did something together that neither could have done alone. Host mr. Germany what do you have to say about that . Mr. Germany Lyndon Johnson is in the white house. There are a lot of people in selma, alabama that are trying to get things pushed. King is like the pressure valve. He is the thing that johnson goes through where that mass pressure comes up. It is that pressure really driving this is Voting Rights thing. Johnson is being pushed along, i think, gladly. He does not want to have to send in the army, but hes willi