Homosexual. When you have your first bad love experience, you cannot go to your brother or sister and say i am hurting. At first i was very guilty. Then i realized that all the things that are taught you not only by society but the psychiatrists is just a fit you into a mold. I rejected the mold and when i did i was happier. These are mostly independent organizations across the country. There are between 60 and 75 groups across the United States, maybe more because they keep growing up overnight. Of 20vent was on the part to 30 organizations on the east coast. Their differences are primarily in approach and tactic. Certain groups tend to emphasize a very militaristic confrontation tactic. Other groups will emphasize a more educational approach, going out into areas where what you might call people who live in medical in Middle America and dont know much about homosexuality. Services toprovide our own people in need. The major effort today is to change the institutions. [chanting] a portion of the film documentary. Inn is what the stonewall looks like today. Inside the New York Times as a look at the demonstrations that took place in july 1969. Is markus from new york steyn, the editor of the stonewall riots the documentary history. Thank you for being with us on cspan and cspan3. We appreciate it. Guest thank you for having me. Host take us back 50 years ago this week. What happened . Police routinely rated gay bars. That was the raided gave ours. There was act gay bars. Raid. Egan a things proceeded in a fairly routine matter manner. Some patrons were allowed to exit the bar and others were detained. It was common for police to detain bar owners, managers, bartenders, people of color, people of transgressed gender. In the lingo of the day, transvestites or drag queens. People who talked back or fought back. Some people were detained inside the bar. Others began exiting but that night, and at this time it was the Early Morning hours of june 28, patrons and pastors began gathering on the street outside and as the police tried to bring those they had detained into police wagons, the crowd began to erect and over the next fewt and over the next nights, riots, protests, demonstrations. At one point the police were trapped inside the bar until reinforcements arrived. Right control police were called Riot Control Police were called to reestablish order on the streets. Why this location . Why the Stonewall Inn and why june of 1969 . What triggered this set of riots . Guest it is a complicated question. The Stonewall Inn was mafia owned and managed as were many gay bars in new york city. There was a system of payoffs whereby the bar owners and managers paid off the police in order to limit although never completely restrict police raids on the bars. The police would read the bars raid the bars even with this payoff system in place. The payoff system may have broken down. There was a Mayoral Election at the time and that was often a time when police would raid bars as part of a crackdown. Could givetration the appearance of promoting law order. Disorderly conduct, blackmailing, other allegations about the Stonewall Inn in particular. That is why the stonewall itself was targeted. Why june 1969, that is a question that historians have been debating for a long time. In global terms, 1968 was a major year that witnessed rebellions and revolutions around the world, as well as police reaction, state reactions, violent state repression. Respects, we can see the and thenhts in 1969 there were local and national developments. I mentioned the Mayoral Election. That was days, weeks before the riots took place. Ther john lindsay had lost republican primary to be reelected. He was known to be a friend of the Gay Community in the late 60s. He ended up winning the election in 1969 but he filled in a thirdparty ticket. In late june nobody knew he was going to end up winning. Policeere a series of killings of lgbt people around the country. Oakland,es, berkeley, new york city and that contributed to the rage and anger and the fury that lgbt inple felt that night and the days and weeks surrounding the stonewall riot. Host our guest is a professor of history and he is the editor of this book, the stonewall riots, the documentary history. We will get to your calls and comments. We are dividing our phone lines regionally. We have one set aside for the lgbtq community. That number is 202 7488002. If you could for a moment, describe physically where you are situated. Me is theectly behind new Stonewall National monument which was created during the obama administration. It is a small triangular park. Behind the park is the Stonewall Inn itself. It is a twostory building with beige stucco. It was also part of the Stonewall Inn. This is the Greenwich Village in lower manhattan. Host what do the monuments represent . Obama referenced selma in hisngside inaugural address, it really signal the recognition that lgbt activism, the lgbt movement was part of the broader aspirational struggles for social justice in the United States. That is a very powerful statement on the part of obama as president of the United States in the first africanamerican president of the United States, and that establishing this monument here is another way of signaling the road that has been traveled over the last 50 years or even longer to achieve lgbt equality, a still unfinished process i might add. This is an action on the part of the federal government which for many decades was quite oppressive toward lgbt people. Still, we have problems with federal policy. That is a kind of paradigm the federal government is recognizing and facing and yet continues to adopt policies. Currently the best example might be the ban on Transgender Military Service members. There is that paradox of recognition by the federal government but ongoing struggles and problems with the federal government. Host you mentioned the speech by president obama on january 21, 2013. Here is what he said. [video clip] peoplebama we the declared today that the most evident of truths, that all of us are created equal. It is the star that guides us still, just as it guided our forbearers through seneca fells and stonewall, just as it guided all of those men and women, sung in unsung who left footprints along this great mall to hear preacher say that we cannot walk alone. To hear a king proclaimed that that was former president barack obama in 2013. One more point about your location because the Stonewall Inn itself is the best way to say it is a rather is a rather cozy bar. It is not very big is it . Guest it is not in the large scheme of things but it was known in 1959 as one of the larger gay bars in new york city and greenwich building and Greenwich Village. It featured dancing, gogo boys to theually compared real holes in the wall, the Stonewall Inn was known to be spacious. Host why were these location so important at that time to the gay and Lesbian Community . Samesex sex was basically illegal in 49 states. Were also federal, state and local laws that regulated participationgbt in many aspects of public life. Difficult to get government jobs at the local, state and federal levels in 1969. Bars were a congregation place where lgbt people could come together, socialize together, enjoy time together and in that sense, some people argued that the bar was for the Lgbt Community what the church was for the Africanamerican Community or what the factory was for the label labor movement. Gathering,pace for becoming active and developing ideas about social justice and equality. Host in order to get a sense of how the media covered the gay and Lesbian Community back in the 1960s, i want to share with you a portion of a now controversial cbs news documentary, one in which dan rather has apologized for. The title of the program was called the homosexuals. [video clip] most americans are appalled by the mere mention of homosexuals. Survey showed two out of three americans look upon homosexuals with disgust, discomfort or fear. One out of 10 say hatred. A fast majority believe homosexuality is an illness. Only 10 say it is a crime. And yet here is the paradox. The majority of americans favor legal punishment for homosexual acts performed in private between consenting adults. The homosexual, bitterly aware of his rejection, responds by going underground. They frequent their own clubs and bars and coffee houses where they can act out in the fashion they want to, where they can escape the disapproving eyes of society. Host that is from cbs news. Mark steyn, i know you are familiar with this program. As you hear that and see that, your reaction . Guest the media was changing in the second half of the 60s, as was the lgbt movement. Was quiteam profoundly criticized but there were other media stories that were more accepting and more open to change. One example would be the New York Times magazine published a major story called civil rights and the homosexual, in 1967. In 1968 street journal featured a public story on the gay rights movement. Lgbtgenerally, the movement had success in the second half of the 60s, and that was certainly true in new york city. Under the lindsay administration, there was decline in sexual trafficking practices on the part of police, a decline in arrests for sexual solicitation, decisions that allowed gay bars a little more freedom to exist and prosper and front and thrive. Things were changing in the second half of the 1960s. When we turn to the civil rights themselves, the media reports were interesting, conflicting and everchanging. In that first week, the New York Times and the new york daily post did cover the civil rights but it was buried news, it was not prominent. The village boys did major stories on the stonewall riots and had reporters on the scene, even trapped inside the bar during the riots. Were much more significant stories but it was really the alternative press and the lgbt press that covered the riots more sympathetically, more comprehensively, and those of the stories that historians rely on, along with oral history, Police Reports and photographs, for rounding out the picture of what happened that week. Host one of which is the documentary which we are featuring on American History tv. Our guest is mark steyn joining us from new york. He is also the author of rethinking the gay and Lesbian Movement in the city of sisterly and brotherly love as we talk about the Stonewall Inn riots 50 years ago. Tom is on the phone from flint, michigan. Hello. Caller good morning to both of you gentlemen. This will be pretty brief. Just a little context. I am a navy veteran, a gay navy veteran. I grew up in a very catholic household. Portrayed many different ways by many different folks and corners of society, but what it really is, its about love. Much. Not about sex, so luck tout love and good anybody who is determined to you areve because really fighting quite a force. Coming from a religious background, the last thing i issues aren is lgbtq often by the religious right mentioned in the same breath as abortion and the culture of death and things of this nature, but there is so much in the bible that is taken way out of context. It is adhered to selectively. Its about love, period. Have a wonderful weekend. Host have you personally felt discrimination as an openly gay american . Caller im glad you asked. Time asother viewers well as you gentlemen. In the navy,ears i guess about 50 quote,as under socalled dont ask, dont tell. The other 50 , like my first 10 years was under the republican and will askask and do tell. That was particularly repressive and draconian. It could land you out on the street out of a job in the military extremely easily. I think bill clinton takes a lot of grief for dont ask, dont tell but it was a huge step forward from what was in place before that. The last half of my sentence , growing upession in a particularly religious household, you Better Believe it. Thank you for asking. Host thank you. Mark steyn, what are you hearing in his story . Interestingnk it is to see the movement as focused on issues of love. The prestonewall movement we call the homophile movement. That was chosen as the key term because it referenced love rather than sex. I would say the Gay Liberation movement that developed after stonewall, and this is something that began in the months before places equal emphasis on love, intimacy and sex. Sex was central to the early Gay Liberation as they want the legalization of sex, they wanted their sexual expression and identities to be recognized, affirmed and validated. For at least a few years, sexual issues were quite central to the movement immediately after the stonewall riots. Host post stonewall riots, here is a look at some of the highlights for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities in 1973. The American Psychiatric association declaring homosexuality no longer a mental illness. In the first two years of the reagan administration, the cdc using the term aids for the first time. In 1969, bill clinton signing the defense of marriage act. Court5, the supreme legalizing samesex marriage. The pentagon one year later ends the ban on transgender people serving openly in the military. In 2019 President Trump rescinded that band. That ban. Lets get to our next caller. Caller i am an activist in new york city and i am transgender. I am kind of high up in the Lgbt Community here. I came out of the military to new york in 1986. Johnson down by the village and i know that the Gay Community did not like the drag queens because they were trying to be with the straight Community Back then. Marsha p johnson was a marginalized black trans woman and a six and a sex worker was at the stonewall riots fighting with the cops. Most of the photos and videos that we see, am i talking . Host you are on the air. Caller ok. Host did you have another question or comment . Caller i wonder why he does not mention the black drag queens who were in front of the bar fighting that night like Marsha P Johnson. Sylvia rivera was also a part of the gay rights movement. Host thank you. Guest the caller is right. Determine, some of the leading roles in the riots were played by africanamericans, puerto ricans, trans people, drag queens. It is still uncertain as to whether they represent the majority of the people who participated in the riots but there are many accounts that place them at the key moments, leading the riots, displaying a real courage, a campy courage some might say. Some individuals who were often credited with instigating or leading the riots, Sylvia Rivera, Marsha P Johnson, there are still conflicting accounts about when they were there, whether they were there. Marsha p johnson in many of her accounts explained that she was not there when the riot started but she got there sometime later. If we take her at her word, she played an Important Role that night and certainly other people of color did, trans people did, but she may not have been there when the riots started. Host lets go to dave in new york city. Caller good morning. Thank you for cspan. And grew uprs old on long island, i was a College Student upstate and i would hitch a ride down and go to the bars. Being sortnge to me, of macho, a College Student, but stonewall was an amazing place, and i would go in early in the evening before we went down toward the river, toward the new bar, which i have not heard mentioned. I went in about 10 00 in the evening to stonewall, maybe after julia, so we would go and walk through and it seemed all right, it seemed normal early in the evening. I walked down to dannys. Andme back two hours later it was, and i have not heard but thethe commentary, queens were the bravest. Garbage pailsting on fire, from the outside and throwing them in through the big window and the police were inside at that point. I remember standing on the bumpers of two cabs that were parked right there in front of it. That was just the first night. I dont think i was there on the second night. That is what i will never forget. The police were sort of trapped inside at the point that i got back and they were lighting garbage cans and throwing them in the window. That is all i want to say. It got a little better after tot, a bit but it took years get to where we are now. Int thank you for weighing and sharing your recollections from 50 years ago. Mark steyn, your reaction. Guest my book reprints 30 media reports and other accounts of the stonewall riots from 1969. It is interesting to see that the first accounts provided by the New York Times, daily news and the New York Post referred to the rioters as homosexuals or young homosexuals but within a press waslgbt referring to the leading role played by one of the time were referred to as transvestites or drag queens or street queens and the most extensive coverage of that was in the local gay newsletter of the mattachine society. Interestingly, the trans periodicals of the day, two of which were the Erickson Education Foundation newsletter did not cover the riots, but the gay oriented managing Society Newsletter mattachine Society Newsletter we also have translations 50 years later. Today we tend to police the boundaries between gay and trans but in 1969, many people like Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera were comfortable referring to themselves as both gay and transvestite. They did not see those things as necessarily an opposition or mutually exclusive. Host to our viewers turning income tuning in, we are looking 50 years back to the stonewall riots. Our guest from new york is mark steyn, the author of a new book that looks back at what happened 50 years ago. We have been talking about new York City Police officers and the Police Commissioner on twitter, with this apology for the way officers 50 years ago handled the situation. [video clip] it would be irresponsible of me as we go through world pride month, not to speak of the events at the Stonewall Inn in june of 1969. I will not stand up here and pretend to be an expert on what happened. I do know what happened should not have happened. The actions taken by the nypd were wrong, plain and simple. The actions and the laws were discriminatory and oppressive, and for that i apologize. [applause] to the lgbtq community, they should never this would never happen with the nypd of 2019. Host mark steyn, a reaction to that apology from the new York City Police commissioner. Guest in general terms, i think the apology is a good first step , but it is just that, a first step. I would like to see similar apologies by the Police Commissioners of the many cities where lgbt people were killed in 1969 by the police. That would include los angeles, berkeley, california, oakland. Those would be steps alongside the actions of the new York City Police commissioner. In addition, we are seeing leadership from city maters, governors city mayors, governors. We still have only a few states where lgbt education is mandatory in public schools. We still have policies in local, state and federal levels with respect to trans people that could be addressed. Where is the funding for the lgbt History Education, the lgbt History Museum . There is an effort underway in new york city, a longstanding lgbt History Museum in San Francisco. We could see more of those projects funded by cities, states and local governments. Lgbt abuse and harassment including a by harassment of authorities. Those would be steps that would build on what is a symbolic apology. Host from new jersey, richard. Good morning. Caller good morning i wanted to discuss the beginning of my coming out and going into new york. I used to go to the gay pride parade, but only at night because i did not want to go near tv cameras. My very best friend who was a schoolteacher said that he could not go to the gay pride parade until the evening time because he was afraid he would definitely lose his job as a schoolteacher. He was a spanish and italian teacher in new jersey. As asolutely loved his job Foreign Language teacher. Halloweenber enjoying on christopher street. Change wask a big during the gay mens health crisis. I was with a friend, tony, in a storefront when they first started the game mens health crisis. They were setting up the telephone lines. These men that were much older than me, i probably was 21, 22. Tony said, because everyone was putting their name down on the piece of paper, and tony leaned over and said, he is extremely young. He has petrified his name will be on anything. In that storefront, with a gay mens health crisis, i did not put my name on the piece of iper because the first thing thought of was the gay concentration camps and that i would be put in a camp and possibly killed for being gay. Host we should point out. Christopher street is directly behind you. Iconic place an for gays and lesbians. It is also where the Stonewall Inn is located. What is your reaction . Guest one of the things that is interesting is for us to look back at the early pride marches and protests. The first of which took place in the summer of 1970 to commemorate the First Anniversary of the stonewall riots. There had been earlier commemorations in philadelphia in front of Independence Hall on july 4. Those began in 1965 and were held for five consecutive years. The decision was made by Movement Activists in the fall switch the recognition of the struggle from philadelphia and Independence Hall to stonewall and new york city. We knowame the what now as the gay pride parade. But eventually spread around the United States and around the world. 1971,rly pride parade in and that in 72, 1973, it was quite brave to participate. It was uncertain if they would be violence from harassers who might come and confront the participants. It was unclear whether the police would grant permits. 1970, it wass in only shortly before what was called christopher street west that the parade organizers received official police permits to conduct the march. They only did so under a judges order. The first commemorations of the stonewall rebellion required a lot of courage on the part of organizers and participants. Many of us believe that is really one the stoma riots acquired the significance the stonewall riots acquired the significance they have today. Theres been other protestant demonstrations before stonewall. Other protests and demonstrations forced on will. It is the annual commemorations every summer that have gone on every year. Host Walter Jenkins, who at the time was one of the closest aides to president lyndon married, theas father of six children. This is a photograph of Walter Jenkins who was forced out of the white house when he had a inual liaison at the ymca washington, d. C. He was charged with a crime on morals charges. From 1964 to where we are today with Pete Buttigieg and some of the top tier and one of the top tier democrats. What does that arc of history tell you . Openly lgbt candidates began running for office in the United States before stonewall. They were not generally successful. They began to be successful in the early 1970s. The first were in ann arbor, michigan. City councilmembers came out as gay and lesbian. They ran and won elections. There was a state senator elected in massachusetts. Elaine noble and harvey milk winning in the late 1970s for the board of supervisors in San Francisco. We begin to see success in running for congress. Shortly after, a few governors by now. Limits still has been a there still has been a limit to that kind of success to electoral and appointed office. We have yet to have an lgbt appointed cabin number. You get to have an lgbt Vice President over president. I think Pete Buttigieg is showing the country it is imaginable. It is possible. I would also remind everyone we have yet to have a woman president of the United States. There are many groups in American Society that have yet to be represented at the highest levels of government. It certainly is possible and maybe likely that in our lifetimes, there will be an openly lgbt member of the supreme court, president , or Vice President. Host there are 10 openly gay or lesbian members of the house and senate. We will show you that list. We hear from dan in ontario, california. Good morning. Caller ontario, canada. Canada,ndering, here in it has basically become a nonissue. I noticed in the United States there is a lot of attention paid to the terminology used like lgbtq. It is unfamiliar here. I am wondering if i could get your opinion on the difference between how it is dealt with and the language used and how it has evolved. Host thank you, dan. Lived in toronto for 16 years. I know something about what youre talking about. Thinking back to the stonewall moment, it was in that moment when a number of countries began to partially decriminalize consensual samesex sex act. Right before the right before the storm or riots for candida and wales. There is a controversy that has been going on in canada about the formal federal government apology for the criminalization of lgbt people and the unfinished nature of those reforms that occurred in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I understand there has been action on removing from the canadian criminal code some of statutes thatinal have been used to target lgbt people. It is important to remember it is not just sodomy that was criminalized. Samesex sex. Lgbt people were harassed and abused. Conduct, lewd conduct , obscenity law, in candida, body house legislation and a variety of other criminal statutes. Host you are doing a great job. In other trucks behind you can sometimes john out the noise. We appreciate it. You were at the park that is no part of the National Park service on christopher street, directly across from the Stonewall Inn. It is open to the public. Our guest is mark steyn. He earned his document his doctorate from the diversity of pennsylvania. Caller good morning to professor stein. I am an avid supporter of cspan. A quicklike to say story. I knew about stonewall and how movement itmarkable started, the catalyst for the lgbtq movement. I was walking by myself one day in manhattan. Across theto come stonewall memorial park. It is a very good feeling knowing i was standing inadvertently in a catalyst for such a remarkable social judges movement. I was taken aback. Just in brief, i want to thank cspan and professor stein for shedding such a positive and transformative light on the subject and how remarkable the has been. Thank you all again for your time. Host tom, thank you for the call. That may take his point and move it one step further. As an educator, how do you teach stonewall . How should teachers educate this generation in terms of what happened and it significance 50 years later . Caller many about guest many of us have been trying to improve lgbt History Education in colleges, universities, and high schools. It is important for her to be integrated into our general narrative of American History. It is one thing for there to be courses on lgbt history. It is another thing entirely when lgbt history and the history of civil rights gets incorporated into the general American History courses. A number of us are working hard on that right now. Many of us try to teach that stonewall followed 20 years of political organizing by lgbt people. There was a prestonewall movement. Many of us try to teach a broader history of sexual and gender difference and variety in American History. Stretching back centuries. Of course, it is important to follow the stories after the stonewall riots. How did the Gay Liberation movement develop in the 1970s . Lesbian feminist movement, the transgender liberation movement. How did people of color organize autonomous lgbt movement, going particularly strong in the late 1970s . How did that change with the 1980s when in the 1980s with the aids crisis . What were the some of the changes in the more recent decades . What itlications of means to be recognized by local, state, and federal government and the possibility that liberation might be limited, might be compromised, might be unfinished in a variety of ways. That is what a lot of us try to teach when we emphasize lgbt history. Host you have spent probably more time than most historians looking back at the events of stonewall. What has surprised you the most . Guest i think the 50 year commemoration, annulus dissipated many of us anticipated they would be a public explosion. Maybe i underestimated the extent of the public interest. That is gratifying. It is an opportunity for us to teach about stonewall specifically and also about broader lgbt history and broader history of social Justice Movements and connect the past to the present. That is an important aspect. It is also frustrating, we do see many of the myths that circulate about stonewall, claims that the civil rights started the lgbt movements. We see a lot of photographs circulated on the internet that purport to be from the stonewall riots that are not from the storm arise. We have quite limited from the stonewall riots. We have quite limited photographic evidence. Captures the confrontation riot document the internet creates between the right that presented on the internet. It can go viral and spread. We end up with misinformation and misinterpretation. Host our next caller is from ithaca, new york. Welcome to the conversation. Good morning. Are you with us . Caller yes, i am. Can you hear me . Host we can now. Goahead. Caller thank you first of all for everyone behindthescenes who put us all on everyday. Vincent crea, ecological, a gala terry. Oneworld life systems. Needs not just to be a historical site. It needs to be an insight into our history. Concurin i think would that not only the commemoration , i did not come out until i left the seminary in 1983. I went into the peace corps and i won the most comprehensive case in the peace corps when i was fired. One of the things they fired me for was being gay in senegal. Pastors i have my masters divinity. I last paper at Catholic University was same gender marriages. Thatwe do not realize is what we need is a vehicle of veracity with a capacity to uphold those selfevident truths. What we would like i would think all of theed with talk and everything is good about the reparations, about voting rights, about equal access. By trinity church, standing up for a south african transgendered woman to use the womans bathroom. We need human rights court. Host im going to give our guest a chance to respond. Thank you for sharing your story. Guest one of the things the caller emphasized was religion. Oppressive roles played by religion and potentially liberating roles played by religion. Riots,the stonewall religious leaders were important allies of the lgbt movement along with the American Civil Liberties union, which was perhaps the most important ally for the prestonewall movement. In San Francisco, there was a counsel on religion and homosexuals, which featured a number of ministers who allied with the lgbt activists and made important groundbreaking efforts in california. Those efforts continued after stonewall. There is often a tendency to think of the religious community as hostile to or at odds with lgbt aspirations. Religious communities are divided. We have had for several decades, religious document glitches, nominations were in the forefront of fighting for rights and others in the forefront of opposing lgbt liberation. Even within some of those to number rations that have been hostile, there are divisions within. Efforts within even the Catholic Church or the Mormon Church to promote lgbt rights. Religious communities in the United States and elsewhere have been an important site of struggle. With thick about our school, politics. Host 50 years after the riots which moved into early july, what is the rainbow flag represent to you as an historian . What does the rainbow flag represent to you as an historian . Guest the flag emerged as one of several symbols and icons of the lgbt movement. The many colors was meant to celebrate the diversity of the lgbt movement and community. Anemphasize it is not allwhite community, not all men, not all middleclass. It commemorates it encompasses people from all backgrounds in American Society and the global community. There have been calls to expand the colors on the rainbow flag to even further emphasize the diversity of lgbt communities, movement, activism. Host tony in denver. Good morning. Welcome to the program. Caller thank you. Mr. Stein, william prison station on stoma. Brilliant presentation on stonewall. I find this highly informative. The lgbtqis community . How large is the demographic . I am sure the statistics are hard to get out because of closeted people, but i would like to know that. As an historian, are you concerned . I am concerned as a white male about injustice for anybody who is not white over the last couple years. I am wondering that as an historian, if you have a view, are we going backwards as a society in general in terms of social Justice Movements . Things would be helpful. Thank you. Host thank you for the call. Mr. Stein . Onst on the first step the first question, quantification is very difficult. We have lots of surveys stretching back to the kinsey studies in the 19 50s. If the question is as narrowly, we tend to get reports of one to three to five to 10 of the population. The question is asked broadly, we tend to have much more broad numbers. When we think of the term queer, that is meant to represent a broader away a broader array of people. It represents anyone who has ever had a moment of samesex desire. We start to get much much larger percentages. We might even say 100 of the population is potentially clear, although not everybody lives that life and claims that identity. It really depends on how we ask the question. How we define each of those letters of the alphabet. With respect to the current moment and whether we are making progress in taking a step back, i think in many respects, these things tend to happen in cycles. There were important reforms during the obama administration. As we have seen in many areas of social justice, reaction during the trump administration. There have been limits to that because we have three branches of the federal government. We have state and local government, some of which are continuing to make important strides. It is complicated. Have two steps forward, one step 4 one step back. Sometimes we have one step forward and two steps back. It depends on the question we are asking. In terms of aspects of law, there have been there has been progress. In other aspects, there has been retrenchment. The notion that we each have to claim strict identities and avoid dealing with the complexity of of gender and sexual fluidity, maybe we are not at such a great moment. Morey see more and insistence people claim strict identities and do not embrace possible transformation, possible fluidity of gender and sexuality across life courses and across history. Host this headline from the new york daily news. It reads as follows. Homo nest raided. Stinging bad. What you think of that headline . What do you think of that headline . Guest it was characteristic of some of the mainstream coverage of the stonewall rides. My book offers 30 accounts of the riots from that summer. How mainstreamre newspapers and magazines covered the riots to alternative papers like the village voice. Like thet periodicals berkeley barb and berkeley tribe. Then we get to see lgbt press coverage. You would not have seen a headline like that in lgbt magazines of the day. This was a way for mainstream newspapers to get readers. It can be complicated to use those as sources. They are important sources. They help us understand how people learned about stonewall. The National Magazines of the day, time and newsweek, did not cover stonewall until the fall. Until october. It took several months before the magazines of the United States saw stonewall as something significant and worthy of coverage. Host spoke earlier about the importance of the bars and taverns for the gay and Lesbian Community. A professor ats San Francisco university. Back at the role they played for the Lgbt Community. [video clip] gays and lesbians who came of age during the 1940s, 1960s, 1950s, 19 60s, speak over and over about how they risk their livelihoods by going to gay bars because the gay bars save their lives. They kept them from despairing they were the only ones. They kept them from believing that society was right, that they were sick and criminal and would be better off dead. In the bars and nightclubs, they found hookups and one night stands. They also found partners and lovers and friends and people who accepted them as they were. Not have to carry out the exhausting work of pretending to be straight. Being true to yourself is very precious. It is worth a lot of risk. Lesbians during this time suffered double discrimination. Even most gay men saw women as inferior. In the days before widespread feminism, the lesbian bar was the truly rare place where women were not pressured to cater to men. Said, we in the 1940s can throw off our girdles, dresses, our high heels. That was the uniform required of all women. Lesbians could wear pants and be free from straight mens unwanted sexual attention. Host that is from nancy juncker, a santa clara professor. Riots to move beyond the and ask you, what happened next after the stonewall demonstrations . Initially, the existing Gay Rights Organization in new york city, the mattachine society, tried to harness the energy unleashed by the riots. There were a followup protest and demonstrations in Greenwich Village and queens, new york where a public park had been the site of harassment by vigilantes. It became clear that the older Movement Organizations were not going to be the main vehicles for the future. There emerged new organizations. The first one was the Gay Liberation front. A little while later, radical lesbians formed. Representing Lesbian Feminist politics. Groups like third world gay revolution formed, represented people of color. Then the Gay Activist Alliance in new york, which was a little less radical than the end digital then the initial Gay Liberation front. Those organizations were committed to alliances with the black panthers, the antiwar movement, with womens liberation. They participated in marches and demonstrations of those other groups. Radicale calling for restructuring of American Society. The Gay Activist Alliance and contrast decided to in contrast decided to focus more exquisitely on gay rights. That more exclusively on gay rights. That set the trend for the next few years. Very influential, active in his asian active organization in the country. Host i may ask you about the role of edie windsor in her role of challenging the dement challenging the defense of marriage act. Why was her case so significant . Over time, the issues and priorities of the lgbt movement changed. The more mainstream aspects of the Movement Began prioritizing inclusion in the military, inclusion in marriage, inclusion in family life, inclusion in religion. That was contested within the lgbt. Many people thought the radical revolutionaries of the j revelation Gay Liberation movement were antiwar. They did not want inclusion in military. They were opposed to monogamy and conventional family life. There is that tension. For many people, the goal of the lgbt movement was broad acceptance, equality in all aspects of life. Edie windsor and the struggle for samesex marriage was an aspect of that part of the lgbt movement. Her role was essential in establishing or achieving this major longstanding goal of the lgbt movement, which was for those people who want to marry, that they have the legal right to do so. The in 2016 during one of gay pride marches, those from the National Park service joining in the gay pride movement. What does that tell you about where police and authorities were in 1969 and where we are today . Today there are conflicting feelings about the participation of the police, the military, elected officials, representatives of local, state, and federal government. On the one hand, it represents acceptance and inclusion. It is a far cry from the situation 50 years ago. On the other hand, have those levels of government, local, state and federal, fully acknowledge the longstanding acts of harassment of violence committed in the name of local, state, and federal governments . Are they fully addressing todays cutting edge issues . There is the doubleedged aspect of participation of local, state, and federal officials including representatives of the National Park service. Are they doing everything they could be to make up for past wrongs and to address ongoing struggles . Host the cover of your book represents what in your mind . Why did you select that . Photograph from the week of stonewall riots. It is a staged photograph. Ofreally only have one image the confrontation between protesters and the police. We do not even have the original. Most versions people will see is a grainy image of a newspaper photograph. The fred mcdaris photographs were staged. Mostly taken on the evening of the 28th. These are a group of participants who the photographer gathered and staged on a staircase on this very theet they represent diversity of the participation. We see people who look to us to be africanamerican, puerto rican. We see trans people. We see the Youthful Energy of the participants. We see camping. See samesex affection and intimacy in the series of photographs. It capturesects, what was going on during the week of the writing. Host author, historian, and history professor at San Francisco state university, marc stein, who is joining us from chris river street in Greenwich Village, new york. Thank you for being with us. Guest thank you for having me. Host for viewers on cspan3, up vincenz, who chronicled the movement and the events following the riots is coming up next on cspan3s American History tv
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