Homosexual. When you have your first bad love experience, you cannot go to your brother or sister and say i am hurting. At first i was very guilty. Then i realized that all the things that are taught you not only by society but the psychiatrists is just a fit you into a mold. I rejected the mold and when i did i was happier. These are mostly independent organizations across the country. There are between 60 and 75 groups across the United States, maybe more because they keep growing up overnight. Of 20vent was on the part to 30 organizations on the east coast. Their differences are primarily in approach and tactic. Certain groups tend to emphasize a very militaristic confrontation tactic. Other groups will emphasize a more educational approach, going out into areas where what you might call people who live in medical in Middle America and dont know much about homosexuality. Services toprovide our own people in need. The major effort today is to change the institutions. [chanting] a portion of the film documentary. Inn is what the stonewall looks like today. Inside the New York Times as a look at the demonstrations that took place in july 1969. Is markus from new york steyn, the editor of the stonewall riots the documentary history. Thank you for being with us on cspan and cspan3. We appreciate it. Guest thank you for having me. Host take us back 50 years ago this week. What happened . Police routinely rated gay bars. That was the raided gave ours. There was act gay bars. Raid. Egan a things proceeded in a fairly routine matter manner. Some patrons were allowed to exit the bar and others were detained. It was common for police to detain bar owners, managers, bartenders, people of color, people of transgressed gender. In the lingo of the day, transvestites or drag queens. People who talked back or fought back. Some people were detained inside the bar. Others began exiting but that night, and at this time it was the Early Morning hours of june 28, patrons and pastors began gathering on the street outside and as the police tried to bring those they had detained into police wagons, the crowd began to erect and over the next fewt and over the next nights, riots, protests, demonstrations. At one point the police were trapped inside the bar until reinforcements arrived. Right control police were called Riot Control Police were called to reestablish order on the streets. Why this location . Why the Stonewall Inn and why june of 1969 . What triggered this set of riots . Guest it is a complicated question. The Stonewall Inn was mafia owned and managed as were many gay bars in new york city. There was a system of payoffs whereby the bar owners and managers paid off the police in order to limit although never completely restrict police raids on the bars. The police would read the bars raid the bars even with this payoff system in place. The payoff system may have broken down. There was a Mayoral Election at the time and that was often a time when police would raid bars as part of a crackdown. Could givetration the appearance of promoting law order. Disorderly conduct, blackmailing, other allegations about the Stonewall Inn in particular. That is why the stonewall itself was targeted. Why june 1969, that is a question that historians have been debating for a long time. In global terms, 1968 was a major year that witnessed rebellions and revolutions around the world, as well as police reaction, state reactions, violent state repression. Respects, we can see the and thenhts in 1969 there were local and national developments. I mentioned the Mayoral Election. That was days, weeks before the riots took place. Ther john lindsay had lost republican primary to be reelected. He was known to be a friend of the Gay Community in the late 60s. He ended up winning the election in 1969 but he filled in a thirdparty ticket. In late june nobody knew he was going to end up winning. Policeere a series of killings of lgbt people around the country. Oakland,es, berkeley, new york city and that contributed to the rage and anger and the fury that lgbt inple felt that night and the days and weeks surrounding the stonewall riot. Host our guest is a professor of history and he is the editor of this book, the stonewall riots, the documentary history. We will get to your calls and comments. We are dividing our phone lines regionally. We have one set aside for the lgbtq community. That number is 202 7488002. If you could for a moment, describe physically where you are situated. Me is theectly behind new Stonewall National monument which was created during the obama administration. It is a small triangular park. Behind the park is the Stonewall Inn itself. It is a twostory building with beige stucco. It was also part of the Stonewall Inn. This is the Greenwich Village in lower manhattan. Host what do the monuments represent . Obama referenced selma in hisngside inaugural address, it really signal the recognition that lgbt activism, the lgbt movement was part of the broader aspirational struggles for social justice in the United States. That is a very powerful statement on the part of obama as president of the United States in the first africanamerican president of the United States, and that establishing this monument here is another way of signaling the road that has been traveled over the last 50 years or even longer to achieve lgbt equality, a still unfinished process i might add. This is an action on the part of the federal government which for many decades was quite oppressive toward lgbt people. Still, we have problems with federal policy. That is a kind of paradigm the federal government is recognizing and facing and yet continues to adopt policies. Currently the best example might be the ban on Transgender Military Service members. There is that paradox of recognition by the federal government but ongoing struggles and problems with the federal government. Host you mentioned the speech by president obama on january 21, 2013. Here is what he said. [video clip] peoplebama we the declared today that the most evident of truths, that all of us are created equal. It is the star that guides us still, just as it guided our forbearers through seneca fells and stonewall, just as it guided all of those men and women, sung in unsung who left footprints along this great mall to hear preacher say that we cannot walk alone. To hear a king proclaimed that that was former president barack obama in 2013. One more point about your location because the Stonewall Inn itself is the best way to say it is a rather is a rather cozy bar. It is not very big is it . Guest it is not in the large scheme of things but it was known in 1959 as one of the larger gay bars in new york city and greenwich building and Greenwich Village. It featured dancing, gogo boys to theually compared real holes in the wall, the Stonewall Inn was known to be spacious. Host why were these location so important at that time to the gay and Lesbian Community . Samesex sex was basically illegal in 49 states. Were also federal, state and local laws that regulated participationgbt in many aspects of public life. Difficult to get government jobs at the local, state and federal levels in 1969. Bars were a congregation place where lgbt people could come together, socialize together, enjoy time together and in that sense, some people argued that the bar was for the Lgbt Community what the church was for the Africanamerican Community or what the factory was for the label labor movement. Gathering,pace for becoming active and developing ideas about social justice and equality. Host in order to get a sense of how the media covered the gay and Lesbian Community back in the 1960s, i want to share with you a portion of a now controversial cbs news documentary, one in which dan rather has apologized for. The title of the program was called the homosexuals. [video clip] most americans are appalled by the mere mention of homosexuals. Survey showed two out of three americans look upon homosexuals with disgust, discomfort or fear. One out of 10 say hatred. A fast majority believe homosexuality is an illness. Only 10 say it is a crime. And yet here is the paradox. The majority of americans favor legal punishment for homosexual acts performed in private between consenting adults. The homosexual, bitterly aware of his rejection, responds by going underground. They frequent their own clubs and bars and coffee houses where they can act out in the fashion they want to, where they can escape the disapproving eyes of society. Host that is from cbs news. Mark steyn, i know you are familiar with this program. As you hear that and see that, your reaction . Guest the media was changing in the second half of the 60s, as was the lgbt movement. Was quiteam profoundly criticized but there were other media stories that were more accepting and more open to change. One example would be the New York Times magazine published a major story called civil rights and the homosexual, in 1967. In 1968 street journal featured a public story on the gay rights movement. Lgbtgenerally, the movement had success in the second half of the 60s, and that was certainly true in new york city. Under the lindsay administration, there was decline in sexual trafficking practices on the part of police, a decline in arrests for sexual solicitation, decisions that allowed gay bars a little more freedom to exist and prosper and front and thrive. Things were changing in the second half of the 1960s. When we turn to the civil rights themselves, the media reports were interesting, conflicting and everchanging. In that first week, the New York Times and the new york daily post did cover the civil rights but it was buried news, it was not prominent. The village boys did major stories on the stonewall riots and had reporters on the scene, even trapped inside the bar during the riots. Were much more significant stories but it was really the alternative press and the lgbt press that covered the riots more sympathetically, more comprehensively, and those of the stories that historians rely on, along with oral history, Police Reports and photographs, for rounding out the picture of what happened that week. Host one of which is the documentary which we are featuring on American History tv. Our guest is mark steyn joining us from new york. He is also the author of rethinking the gay and Lesbian Movement in the city of sisterly and brotherly love as we talk about the Stonewall Inn riots 50 years ago. Tom is on the phone from flint, michigan. Hello. Caller good morning to both of you gentlemen. This will be pretty brief. Just a little context. I am a navy veteran, a gay navy veteran. I grew up in a very catholic household. Portrayed many different ways by many different folks and corners of society, but what it really is, its about love. Much. Not about sex, so luck tout love and good anybody who is determined to you areve because really fighting quite a force. Coming from a religious background, the last thing i issues aren is lgbtq often by the religious right mentioned in the same breath as abortion and the culture of death and things of this nature, but there is so much in the bible that is taken way out of context. It is adhered to selectively. Its about love, period. Have a wonderful weekend. Host have you personally felt discrimination as an openly gay american . Caller im glad you asked. Time asother viewers well as you gentlemen. In the navy,ears i guess about 50 quote,as under socalled dont ask, dont tell. The other 50 , like my first 10 years was under the republican and will askask and do tell. That was particularly repressive and draconian. It could land you out on the street out of a job in the military extremely easily. I think bill clinton takes a lot of grief for dont ask, dont tell but it was a huge step forward from what was in place before that. The last half of my sentence , growing upession in a particularly religious household, you Better Believe it. Thank you for asking. Host thank you. Mark steyn, what are you hearing in his story . Interestingnk it is to see the movement as focused on issues of love. The prestonewall movement we call the homophile movement. That was chosen as the key term because it referenced love rather than sex. I would say the Gay Liberation movement that developed after stonewall, and this is something that began in the months before places equal emphasis on love, intimacy and sex. Sex was central to the early Gay Liberation as they want the legalization of sex, they wanted their sexual expression and identities to be recognized, affirmed and validated. For at least a few years, sexual issues were quite central to the movement immediately after the stonewall riots. Host post stonewall riots, here is a look at some of the highlights for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities in 1973. The American Psychiatric association declaring homosexuality no longer a mental illness. In the first two years of the reagan administration, the cdc using the term aids for the first time. In 1969, bill clinton signing the defense of marriage act. Court5, the supreme legalizing samesex marriage. The pentagon one year later ends the ban on transgender people serving openly in the military. In 2019 President Trump rescinded that band. That ban. Lets get to our next caller. Caller i am an activist in new york city and i am transgender. I am kind of high up in the Lgbt Community here. I came out of the military to new york in 1986. Johnson down by the village and i know that the Gay Community did not like the drag queens because they were trying to be with the straight Community Back then. Marsha p johnson was a marginalized black trans woman and a six and a sex worker was at the stonewall riots fighting with the cops. Most of the photos and videos that we see, am i talking . Host you are on the air. Caller ok. Host did you have another question or comment . Caller i wonder why he does not mention the black drag queens who were in front of the bar fighting that night like Marsha P Johnson. Sylvia rivera was also a part of the gay rights movement. Host thank you. Guest the caller is right. Determine, some of the leading roles in the riots were played by africanamericans, puerto ricans, trans people, drag queens. It is still uncertain as to whether they represent the majority of the people who participated in the riots but there are many accounts that place them at the key moments, leading the riots, displaying a real courage, a campy courage some might say. Some individuals who were often credited with instigating or leading the riots, Sylvia Rivera, Marsha P Johnson, there are still conflicting accounts about when they were there, whether they were there. Marsha p johnson in many of her accounts explained that she was not there when the riot started but she got there sometime later. If we take her at her word, she played an Important Role that night and certainly other people of color did, trans people did, but she may not have been there when the riots started. Host lets go to dave in new york city. Caller good morning. Thank you for cspan. And grew uprs old on long island, i was a College Student upstate and i would hitch a ride down and go to the bars. Being sortnge to me, of macho, a College Student, but stonewall was an amazing place, and i would go in early in the evening before we went down toward the river, toward the new bar, which i have not heard mentioned. I went in about 10 00 in the evening to stonewall, maybe after julia, so we would go and walk through and it seemed all right, it seemed normal early in the evening. I walked down to dannys. Andme back two hours later it was, and i have not heard but thethe commentary, queens were the bravest. Garbage pailsting on fire, from the outside and throwing them in through the big window and the police were inside at that point. I remember standing on the bumpers of two cabs that were parked right there in front of it. That was just the first night. I dont think i was there on the second night. That is what i will never forget. The police were sort of trapped inside at the point that i got back and they were lighting garbage cans and throwing them in the window. That is all i want to say. It got a little better after tot, a bit but it took years get to where we are now. Int thank you for weighing and sharing your recollections from 50 years ago. Mark steyn, your reaction. Guest my book reprints 30 media reports and other accounts of the stonewall riots from 1969. It is interesting to see that the first accounts provided by the New York Times, daily news and the New York Post referred to the rioters as homosexuals or young homosexuals but within a press waslgbt referring to the leading role played by one of the time were referred to as transvestites or drag queens or street queens and the most extensive coverage of that was in the local gay newsletter of the mattachine society. Interestingly, the trans periodicals of the day, two of which were the Erickson Education Foundation newsletter did not cover the riots, but the gay oriented managing