9 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan, online or you can listen free on the radio app. This is David Blanken horn, he is the cofounder of an organization known as better angels and hes here to the talk about the work and civility in politics. Good morning. Good morning. Good to be with you. Thanks for joining us. The purpose of your effort is to bring people at least to a better understanding of where they are politically. Can you talk about the details of your organization and what its purpose is . We bring together republicans, democrats, independents, all three of your phone lines, to try to learn to respect and care for one another adds citizens despite our differences and when possible find Common Ground. Especially when it comes to ways to make a less divided and rancorous society. And we think its important and necessary to save our country. And we go ahead. We started a couple of years ago. We now have 8500 members in all 50 states, were very active across the country and growing rapidly. How do you do that . Specifically, how does this process work . We bring together groups of citizens who disagree with one another strongly, politically, for we call Work Community meetings, community workshops. And we get to know one another, ask each other questions, and ultimately form local groups called alliances that Work Together across the divides at the local level. We have these all over the country and have an annual convention that brings people together nationally where we try to come up with policy reforms we think would make a less divided effort. Its a grassroots effort number one to depolarize ourselves as citizen to citizen and also thinks of ways as we grow stronger to affect the larger society. What led you to this concept . Right after the 2016 election, two friends of mine, david lap who lives in south lebanon, ohio, and bill doherty who lives in minneapolis, minnesota, we decided to bring together 20 people, 10 who had just proudly voted for donald trump and 10 for hillary clinton, three weeks after the election, to spend time trying to talk with one another rather than about. It was a big success. The people really liked it. They felt better about each other and the country. And so we knew we had something. So weve now had more than 400 of these gatherings across the country. We have about 15 to 20 of them every week now, all run by trained volunteers. So its a spreading movement to bring together people first at the local level and then Work Together nationally for a less rancorous discussion where we respect one another as citizens, where we can find some Common Ground. The most common thing people tell us after they begin to Work Together is were less divided than weve been told. And so walk us through if someone were to just stand aside and watch this process play out, give us a sense of how this works, the mechanics . Well, the first thing we do when we get together is a Little Initiative that we called beyond stereotypes. We usually divide into what we call red and blue. If you lean conservative, thats red. Liberality is blue. Each side comes up with stereotypes they think the other side has about it. If youre red, what is the stereotype lip rals have about you. Youre racist. You dont like immigrants. You dont care about the poor. If youre liberal, what are the stereotypes that you think conservatives have about you. You want government to solve everybodys problems, youre softhearted, everybody should get free stuff and you want open borders. And then we discuss to what degree those stereotypes are false, because generally theyre more false than true, and also what elements of truth there might be in them. So we talk to one another and kind of go beyond the idea of stairr stereotypes and actually begin to communicate with one another. And these things last usually a day. We have them on saturdays. We also have a threehour version that could happen in the evening. But the basic point of the thing is to have me, if im a conservative, have me express my views and also hear the other sides point of views in a good way, so that we can actually connect with one another as citizens rather than just finger point or exaggerate our differences. So the whole point of it is, i can listen to the other side and the other side can listen to me. We can find respect. Our guest is with us until 9 30 if you want to ask him questions about his organization, the effort a larger civility of politics. For democrats 2027488920, for republicans, 2027488921, independents 2027488922. Are there ground rooulz and who sets up i guess the makes sure that people adhere to those rules . There are ground rooulz, but theyre very simple and people agree to them in advance. The most important groundrule rule is that were here to listen and to be heard but not to try to change anybodys mind. Were not trying to outargue the other side. Were trying to say what we think and also listen. The rest of the ground rules are pretty simple, be nice and be respectful. Its pretty simple. The ground rules are simple, but the process has been designed by professor bill doherty at the university of minnesota, and its a pretty evidencebased process. We do evaluations after each one of these things, and people leave these experiences less polarized than when they walked in the door. Thats a consistent finding. So it really does help people to make connections with others that they thought they probably couldnt connect with and to feel better about that and better about the future of the country. Were coming at a time when tomorrow is thanks giving, people will be sitting down of different political stripes, maybe they may talk issues of politics. What are the questions they should be asking each other and from what youve learned and this experience, how should they be engaging each other with a sense of learning where the other stands . Thanksgiving is often a difficult time. Lots of americans, its a Great Holiday but lately you feel like oh, my gosh, what if these contention arguments happen around the table. A lot of people worry about that. Theres no magic formula here. One idea is, as you suggested, to ask questions rather than make speeches. So and its also better to ask questions of clarification rather than gotcha questions. You know, a question of clarification is tell me more about why you believe that. A gotcha question is, how could you possibly believe this given such and such . Where you kind of smuggle an accusation into the question. So ask questions, dont give speeches. And ask genuine questions of clarification rather than con tone shus kinds of accusation questions. But at the end of the day both sides are so adhered to the idea theyre right that that might make that difficult . It does make it difficult. It makes it difficult for me and everybody. One interesting thing is theyve done studies about this, if you try to outargue the other person, showing them facts you dont think theyre aware of and you just keep arguing, the only result of that is that both sides get more dug in. No one changes their mind as a result of that kind of arguing. So its really pointless. So its much better to try to get to know the and also if you can make it personal in the sense of, well, what maybe happened in your life to cause you to have this view . What experiences did you have . Rather than sort of arguing information, if you try to find out where the other persons coming from, that is a much better approach to trying to find something that you can really have a good discussion about. If you want more of these skills for thanksgiving, go to the better angel website, you can find a list. Since you list yourself as a nonprofit, where do you get your funding from and does it come from one political stripe or the other . No. We have something called the better angels rule, and which is that we are evenly divided. We use the term red and blue, but lean liberal, lean conservative. We are evenly divided in our funding sources, board of directors, staff, leadership team. Thats an absolutely rule that we have. About 25 comes from membership dues. Its 12 a year to join. You can go to betterangels. Org and join, and i encourage everyone to do that. The rest comes from foundations, liberalleaning, rightleaning, and individual members who are able to give more than the 12. People can find that online as far as where youre funding and the transparency there . Yes. They can get a list of the people that have, you know, contributed. As i say, about 20 comes from our membership dues. And our goal is to have that proportion grow. Were a fairly new organization. Wed like to have the majority of our funding come from membership dues. Were keeping the membership dues low, 12 a year, so that everybody can join. So i really encourage people, if you care about this kind of effort that we think is actually necessary to save our country, go to betterangels. Org, see if you like what were doing, sign up today. Lets bring in the callers to this. Well start off with joe in jasper, florida. Youre on with our guest. Go ahead. Caller thank you, pedro. I just thank you for taking my call, first of all. And i want you to know, mr. Bankenhorn that i am so excited and thrilled to learn about your organization, and i do plan on visiting the site and perhaps joining. I would just like to know a simple question, if the topic of brotherly love ever comes up . I thank you and ill now take your answer. Thank you. Thats a great question. It really i dont know, caller, if youve seen, theres a book out now by a guy named arthur brooks, and its called love your enemy. And it says basically, it says that the true meaning of civility is to have an inner desire to do good to your opponent. Thats what were going for here. And so it really does take us to the concept of love. It really does. It means, yes, being able to love the person, love want to do well to your opponent. Its a very profound issue. And it goes to the very heart of what were doing. So i thank you for that question. Arthur brooks, appearing on this network in several forms to talk about that book. If you go to our website, you can find out more there. Marie in gulf port, mississippi, democrats line, go ahead. Caller hey, pedro, happy thanksgiving. I started watching your show since the impeachment hearings. I hadnt watched in years, and it is such a blessing to have your station have these scholarly, compassionate analysts who are doing good for our society. So thank you for that. Now, mr. B, yeah, i have to admit, i am at this moment in history, a because we have to have change in 2020 and we have to have change in some of our Southern States to take care of our people better. But i so appreciate your approach. Im going start spreading it on all the political websites. I see that we havent won in our arguments, our races, because people have indulged themselves in a lot of spewing of hatred and calling that campaigning for somebody. Its not even a good professional tactic let alone a socialchange message. So thank you for putting this out. I promise you, both of your speakers in the last hour or so, i will be sharing those websites with every source i can across the country. Thank you. Mr. Bankenhorn. Thank you. Thats very kind. Thank you. Anything to add . Its just that lots of people feel the way that my friend who just said this, this is something people feel at a gut level that the country needs. We find that we do not have to persuade people that we have a problem on our hands. People are many, Many Americans are heartsick, theyre heartsick, at how far we have descended into rancor and name calling and mud slinging and acting like children on television with one another with our public officials. So there is a feeling in the country among liberals, conservatives and everybody in between, that we need to do this better. And that our country is at stake here. Our democracy is at stake. If we cannot trust one another and be decent to one another, our democracy wont work. So theres a natural desire for people to do better. And all they need is an opportunity to put their values into action. And we find that people are very eager to do that. Speaking of opportunity, recently your organization fostered a conversation between the offices of representative dean philips, a democratic from minnesota, and the offices of pete stauber, the republican. Talk a little bit about that exchange. It was terrific. Those two representatives, one republican, one democrat, sent their staffs to one of our together, to one of our better angels events, workshops. And it was very productive. And you know these tend to be younger people, very politically aware, right in the thick of the partisan battles in washington. But they spent a day together talking to one another about this smingz they might have in common, getting to know one another, figuring out some ways they might Work Together across the divide. And dont we need more of this . So it was a great experience. Im really grateful to the two representatives who did this. And we hope this is the first of many such efforts, not just with us but there are other organizations out there. Theres ati terrific group call the National Institute for civil discourse and others who are working on this problem. From north east texas, independent line, noel, hi. Caller good morning and happy thanksgiving. Great programs this morning, pedro. Mr. Blankenhorn. I love your organization, ill check it out. And i love the comment from the woman about the brotherly love. Theres simply not of it at all. Yes, beautiful. Or civil discourse. But one of the things i would love to see our government do is get out of the business of everybodys religion. I dont even think it should be discussed at any level but in your private, person lives. And im all for that. But for and so much of whats happening in our government today, i dont know, has it always been like that . I grew up in the 50s and i dont remember people kind of wanting to worm their way into your business about what you believe, your belief system or spirituality. But its concerning to me when people think that certain government elected officials are now suddenly ordained to be this or that. And how do we how do we get over that . I hope in your groups that you have, maybe we could address that . People just go back to worshipping privately. Okay, caller, got the point. Thanks. Its a great question. We do talk this issue in better angels. And we have different opinions about this within our organization. Its kind of a balance, isnt it . I mean, were a generally speaking many, Many Americans, their religious believes are very important to them so its natural that those beliefs would have an influence on their public life. On the other hand, as you were saying, caller, if it becomes too much about attacking people on the basis of religion or just being very showoffy and phony about how religious you are, thats harmful. So its a balance and its something weve struggled with this since the beginning of the country. This has been an issue since the beginning. There have been eras that weve done better or worse. Maybe this is one were not doing so well. Youre attributed to a quote, the ultat antidote for political arrogance is political humility. What do you mean by that . Humility is the belief that you dont know everything. It used to be something that we would teach our children and we would naturally believe that about ourselves, i dont know everything. Because i dont know everything, i can benefit from talking to others, and i can especially benefit from talking to others who disagree with me on something, because they might know something that i dont know. This is very simple stuff but we have lost in in our public discussion today at the level of, you see people on television or you hear, you know, you hear the politicians and the talk shows with the exception of a few programs like this one. But in general, its grandstanding, i know everything, you know nothing, youre an idiot, and how can this be . How does anybody know everything . So thats what humility means. It just means that you can benefit from talking to other people who you dont agree with. Mr. Blankenhorn, can i ask you about a personal experience. It was highlighted in the New York Times back in the 2000s, you took a position on samesex marriage. You changed that. It led to the influence of what you do today. Can you account for that . Yeah. I was very active in the whole guy marriage debate in the early 2000s. And i was in the public eye as an opponent of gay marriage. And i testified in the prop 8 trial in california. So i met a guy in the course of this debate, a guy on the other side, his name is jonathon rouse, hes in washington, i bet hes been on your program, works at the brookings institution, he wrote a book called gay marriage, why its good. We began as enemies and are now friends. Hes on the board of the better angels, hes a strong advocate of gay rights. Hes a gay man himself. I met him and his husband michael. It wasnt through arguing or learning new facts but through getting to know him and him introducing me to other people, that my stereotypes began to weaken, and it was really the main reason i changed my mind on the issue. And so i this showed me something that people tend to change their minds on the basis of relationships that they have and what is important to them in their life rather than political arguing. And the other thing i learned from that experience is that if you do change your mind about something in public, you will be heavily criticized. We dont like people changing their minds on things. And it seemed to me normal that you would change your mind if you it seems that changing your mind on something is a can be a healthy thing. But in general in todays highly intolerant world, if you change your mind on something, thats considered bad. So those factors, the that experience i had of sort of being on both sides of a very contentious issue, having some experiences that caused me to think about how we might get along better in the country, that and jonathon rouse, he helped me with this and is now a colleague of mine, that was one of the bases of forming better angels. Again the organization, betterangels. Org, hyphenated, if you wanted to go to the website if you wanted to find out more. Well hear from peter in new york, republican line. Caller good morning, mr. Blankenhorn. I think that what you and your organization is doing is great. But i believe the problem is more in washington than it is among the public. On 90 of the issues, politicians basically agree and theyre just running the government. And its that very small, what you had named already, issues that divide people. And republicans or democrats it seems to be the tactic that theyve been using is to demonize the other side in order to stay in power. And using those divisive issues to separate people and not to bring people together. It used to be compromise. And also another big factor is