Above the televised president ial debate tonight. So we think weve got the best thing going here and were glad you chose to be with us tonight. Id like to acknowledge some very important people who are with us this evening. Matts parents tim and debbie costello, who are here with us tonight and his wife kristin, who is here tonight. And, of course, in my book the two most important costellos are sophia and theodore and theyre at home, i guess. They can come next time. Theyre matt and kristins wonderful little kids. I would also like to welcome the members of our board of directors who are with us tonight. We have ann stock and lets give ann a hand. Yes. And bob mcgee. [ applause ] and we have two that are in route, Anita Mcbride and gail west. Both will be a little bit late but will be with us here tonight. Steve strong is the national cochair of our white house our National Council of white house history, which he and his wife andrea are here with us tonight. This is one of our most important groups here White House Historical association. Their support, their encouragement, their inspiration, their wisdom really puts the winds in the sails of so much of what we do and were grateful to have you here with us tonight, steve. Well, the program tonight, dr. Matt costello is going to share with us about his brandnew book thats hot off the presses. This is the first time were making it available. Were very proud of matt, as one of our historians here at the association. Hes been with us now how long has it been . Three years. Three years on the first. He makes quite a mark and makes quite a contribution to our work at the association. Prior to coming here, he contributed to the George Washington bib leography project, he was a fellow at mount vernon and he is currently doing two things that im particularly proud of. One is hes teaching a course at the American University for our white house history. To my knowledge this is the first time its ever been done anywhere. And we hope to broaden that beyond just American University so classes across the country can join virtually and we can expand that impact. But its cutting edge, first mover opportunity were very proud of. Hes also working on his next book which is will be published by the White House Historical university instead of the Kansas University press, which published this one, and were very proud to have the opportunity to publish his next book, which is on the renovation of the white house, undertaken by president Theodore Roosevelt in the early 20th century. Following his remarks, this podium will be moved away from the stage so everyone over here can have a clear view. And he and i will have a conversation, a few probing questions i have about his book. Then we will open the floor to questions, and then youre all invited to join us in the cou courtyard to refreshments following. Thank you very much for being here. Matt, i will turn it over to you. [applause] good evening and thank you, stewart, for that wonderful introduction. Its truly a privilege to be here tonight with you all. One of the most gratifying exercises about finishing the book is that we get to write acknowledgments. So you get to take time and really think through the people and places that made this project possible. And im thrilled that many of those people are here in this room today, including my colleagues here at the association. Thank you for your support, your encouragement. We share this accomplishment together. And in the spirit of that, were sharing some collectively thats my segue, tonight i want to talk about the subject of the book about the property of the nation. Essentially what im getting at is who owns history . And i use washington and his tomb as a lens for trying to understand that process and how it unfolded in the 19th century. Now, this project began as an offshoot of research i was doing around actually the washington monument. As i was exploring different efforts by congress to build statues and memorials and monuments, i was drawn to this particular incident of 1832. And the members of congress were debating and then voted in favor of removing George Washingtons body from mount vernon and entombing it in the just below the crypt in the Capitol Rotunda. Researching it deeper, i discovered this was one of many attempts to physically remove washingtons body during the 19th century. Also, i was also curious about whaps happening exactly at the gravesite. And i found some pretty fascinating stories. The tomb served as an intersection for historical tourism, recent fascinations, Popular Culture, religious inspiration, all things that were transformed by the political democracy. And experiences illuminate how the democratic ill pulse transcended the president , as more americans sought to know, touch, and even possess pieces of washingtons past. Different individuals and groups interacted with washingtons final resting place, mount vernon, threeday visits that citizens, politicians, artists, writers, entrepreneurs, and enslaved storytellers reimagined the collective memory of washington, democratizing the first president and creating this popularly held belief he was indeed the property of the nation. When the ordinance talks about the process, we have to talk about washingtons demise. On december 14th, 1989, washington came down with what appeared to be a winter cold, it accelerated quickly and studies now believe he probably suffered from acute he glot itis, essentially the swelling of the large nifl. Whether it was bacterial or viral in nature, were not really sure. But essentially this is the time when accelerated his declining health. Washington passed away between 10 00 and 11 00 at night. On december 18th he was privately intured at mount vurnen. Six days later on christmas eve, 1799, president john adams asked for marthas consent to move her husbands body in the future to the capital. What we did see then is essentially the apotheosis of washington. There was a mourning period up until his birthday, february 22, 1800. Gerald kaler has done a great study detailing essentially all of the different fun cheryl processions. He counted over 400 instances. This was an outpouring of human grief that the American Country had never seen before. Now at mount vernon itself, letters of condolence streamed in, in particular to martha, but none all of these were sympathetic, sorry for your loss, some of them were actually very opportunistic. For example, a number of individuals were writing martha and asking for locks of her deceased husbands hair. Sounds strange to us but was actually pretty common in the 18th and 19th century. There was one man who claimed he had served with George Washington and he asked martha if she could write a pardon on his behalf to the governor of pennsylvania because he had accused of stealing a horse and had not been able to find the real tlehief and only the widowf washington could save him from his unfortunate fate. She did not reply. Now this reservation to move washington to the washington in 1879 opened up about ownership in america. How would we venerate the memory of our past leaders . Would it be through things like education or would it be very public displays of things like statues, monuments or even something that appears as an that athlete cal to the revolution today, Something Like a mausoleum. This was is proposed by henry trudeau, architecturally designed like the decatur house. This was supposed to be 100 by 100 feet, which would have made it one of the tallest structures in the United States at the time. It would have been made out of granite and marble, so very expensive. But this comes to a head between federalists and democratic republicans. Is this for a man or a pharaoh . Would the United States be different from other countries . Obviously, there were comparisons with egypt, ancient rome, ancient greeks. But ult myly this measure is defeated. The public turns against the idea of turning a mausoleum for George Washington. They determined its not what washington wanted. And funding issue, the government doesnt have one for Something Like that. And the federalists really sarng their ship when they proposed only they would be involved with designing the actual mausoleum. But this issue of interring washington in a new place never really goes away. In 1816 the new owner of mount vernon, bush rod washington, Supreme Court justice and nephew of George Washington, hes actually solicited by the General Assembly and they propose moving washingtons body to richmond to be placed underneath a monument that hasnt been built yet. So another attempt but this time by a state government. Congress gets wind of it. They wish for washington as well and they inquire about moving washington again to the capitol. Of course, the capitol has just been burned and theyre rebuilding it and having the conversations. And bush rod declines so thats another attempt to remove him. Free masonry, free masons came along in the 1820s and they proposed raising money to build a new tomb to washington and his ee mapsation ak applicants. They propose putting together money that was raised at the different lodges and even creating a National Lodge and having washington attached to it. Part of what i argue in the 1820s keep in mind free masonry has taken a turn, theres a rise of the Antisemitic Party and more americans becoming suspicious as what they see as the elitist free masons. The free masons are still visiting washingtons grave. Theyre still attributing his memory to their own brotherhood. Theyre saying any criticism against us is just as criticizing washington himself. So theyre a great example of a Societal Organization using sort of washington as a shield to guard against criticism and anything like that. But really its where we see sort of a major transition in how washington is perceived, how hes marketed and how people profit from it, is what this gentleman, john augusta washington iii. Hes actually the last owner of the private estate. He formally vacates the estate in 1860 but before that he really labors to turn it into americas first historic tourism destination. And he invested in several ventures hoping to capitalize on the public fascination over his famous relative. He negotiated the washington and alexandria steamboat companies so they could have direct access to the pier landing at mount vernon. Essentially a constant flow of steamboats would come between the city of alexandria and mount vernon. In fact he authorizes the building of a wooden plank walkway, which you can see in this photograph, and charged it to the company. Probably one of the funnier things i came across in my research was that this land was so valuable, that there was a man named george paige who arrived at mount vernon along the shoreline in 1851 and he was holding up a deed saying he owned part of the shoreline in mount vernon and this threw generals of washington into a fit but essentially he was claiming the land was technically underwater. It didnt go too well for george paige but it does go to show you and george paige also worked for the steamboat packing company. So there were other agents who were operating on terms of bringing people to mount vernon who wanted that access as well. He took a cut of the ticket sales. Here you can see this is actually the advertisement from the thomas collier, and that was the one that went down several times a week, and this is where we start to see the beginnings, maybe of you have been on the spirit of mount vernon today, essentially making the estate more accessible to people. It was relatively more inexpensive. They offered things like confectionary. Sometimes liquors depending on what type of cruise you were going on to, and they also had music. So it became larger and a daylong experience that a lot of people enjoyed in the 19th century. So he was not only investing in this particular company, he was taken a cut of their sales, he started buying stock, and then he actually starting selling wood from the estate. And the idea behind it was to essentially package and sell pieces of washingtons world so that American Consumers could be more directly connected to the man himself. Now this is a particular example. It was made by an english businessman named james crutchette, whos probably more famous for his installation of gas fighting at the capitol but he had this business aside where he was manufacturing washington trinkets made of wood from the estate. Much accustoms to like where we are today, any time you get something thats supposed to be authentic, youre going to need a certificate that goes with it so you can prove to people, this is legitimate. And you can see from the little liggetts of poetry, washingtons face and also a statement from the mayor of washington, d. C. Attesting to the character of the wood in question and also telling you where the wood came from. Now, in the certificate he says its from the same hill where George Washington is buried. And i think thats particularly interesting because this was a place that was considered sacred to many americans. But when i actually went through his farm books and i tried to plot out where exactly he was taking this wood from, it wasnt always from the hill. I think john augusta washington was good at sales. And this is what people wanted to hear. In fact, some of the wood actually came from right along the shoreline. This was a place George Washington had affectionately called hell hole and he called it that because nothing could grow there. For whatever reason, he just whenever he tried, he could not get anything to grow there. Some of the wood came from hellhole. But that is technically part of the hill so were going to let that one slide. Now with the mount vernon, this one is dated 1856, john augusta washington was helping crush it with his business but he was also simultaneously selling things at mount vernon. He was collecting sales that enslaved gardeners were selling in the upper and lower gardens, and he was also collecting any type of revenue when people came in for a time being there was a demure typist on the estate. So there was a number of different ways that were the forerunners to the moderned lay whys Association Taking over and that Organization Also embracing a lot of these strategies, how can we capitalize on people that are drawn to mount vernon . Even though john augusta washington was very involved in the profiting the memory of washington of his great grand uncle, it was the enslaved community mount vernon that were the primary storytellers and keepers of the tomb. These are the people who were the onsite storytellers and interpreters. Many used that platform to write themselves, leave themselves into various washington legends. Some of them used these positions to extract tips from people who maybe werent as knowledgeable about George Washingtons life, and others were able to highlight washingtons treatment and depending on the audience, his freeing of his slaves in his will, which is a very interesting conversation that enslaved people were having with guests. In fact, theres one instance in particular where bush rod washington gets essentially called up by the liberator and they question his character in comparison with his uncles, and they compare it essentially using a slave account of a visit at mount vernon. When using enslaved people to amuse tour guides was not a new idea, which mount vernon left to gardeners and observants to interact with strangers. But they were shocked when they found out the exproclaimed storytellers were not telling what was happening at the state. They were not bound with the same type of etiquette bushrod thought they should. We shoucould see in other sourc this was post civil war. This never really goes away. Africanamericans are very much involved in telling the story of washingtons life in mount vernon beyond civil war. But we can see in other sources, because thats one of the difficult things, trying to track down the voices of the enslaved, is they played a very prominent role not only sharing accounts with people and newspapers and periodicals, but even an example like this. This is a piece of sheet music and, of course, there were many musical scores about washington but this one in particular the image is very striking. If you look close you can see an africanamerican man sitting next to the tomb and ready to sell a number of walking sticks lined up. Washington james became very popular in the 1970. It was something that tied people directly to the estate but also it was a symbol of affluence in the 19th century. So we accounts of enslaved people either selling these walking sticks or marketing these or making a number of them for people while theyre on the esstate. Sometimes they say theyre pedaling these, but apparently this was much more successful, because crushette eveltly goes out of business. And these storytellers keep selling these things up through the civil war. So no matter how you look at it, whether it was their role cutting the wood for crutchettes canes, whether it was their role laying the plank from the wharf to the tombs, or it was them actually selling things onsite and sharing stories, africanamericans were very involved in perpetuating some of these washington legends, but also writing themselves into it, but also challenging some of the thoughts about how washington felt about things like emancipation. One of my particularly favorite stories, because oftentimes they would make comments about whether or not they were given some type of gratutety or tip, there was one instance where a gentleman wasnt able to give anything to a particularly elderly enslaved woman, and she asked for a pinch of tobacco. So it just goes to show you that it wasnt always about money. Sometimes it was just whatever the visitor might have on them. There was an expectation that there would be an exchange for a service. And africanamericans were a vital part of that. Now, we also do border on sometimes things that seem a little bit more unorthodox or maybe a little bit strange. Starting from the 1830s onward, we see this troeb of the last servant of George Washington. That gets repeated a lotby my count i found at least five last servants. But when you unpack that, it tells you a little bit more about, well, why does that claim have meaning in the 19th century . Because really from the 1830s onward, the founding generation is mostly gone and americans are looking to the next generation of political leaders and contemplating how will the country survive without that leadership . And really its to claim that association, that relationship, it did carry some type of social weight. So we see this time and time again. Some of my particular favorites, there was a man named john kerry who he said he was 113 years old and he was actually seeking a pension from congress in 1843. He claimed he had served washington in the french and interian war and the American Revolution so he deserved twice the pension. Now it doesnt go anywhere, but its interesting that there are people making that claim. And that it was actually it was moved to committee and then got tabled. So it was beliefable to an extent. Now this continues postcivil war. This is actually a picture of a man named jim mitchell in 1870. You can see, even though civil war has ended, slavery has been abolished, africanamericans are still taking up those roles, but theyre doing it now on behalf of the mt. Vernon ladies association. You can see behind him a series of walking sticks. Again, they would have been the primary storytellers but also would have been selling items from the estate. Now at the same time that we have congress and the virginia General Assembly arguing and bickering about where washington should be buried, we have enslaved storytellers at mt. Vernon delivering different types of the washington experience. And then we also have this group of writers and poets and artists who are sharing different bits and pieces of washington lore, either through poetry, biography, or through visual artwork. And they also play a major role in this memoryforming process, because most americans will not get to mt. Vernon in the 19th century. Theyre going to rely on things like visuals to help fill in the gaps of what they knew about washington. This is actually his adopted it would be his adopted grandson, George Washington bart custus. He became a washington publicist and spokesperson. He gave speeches, traveled the country, wrote plays that really built up his adopted grant fathers legacy. But probably most important were his recollections which affirmed a lot of these myths and legends. We cant forget about mason lock weenz, probably the most influential person when it came to making washington more popular. His life in washington was in its 40th edition, he had added more and more material based on oral history and folklore which today most regard as probably not true. But it was a Washington People wanted to hear about. He was relatable, seemed more ordinary and worked really hard at improving himself and getting to the point he needed to. Weaves doesnt talk about how washington made his money. A big part was his marriage to martha, thats where a lot of his fortune came from. Again putting out this different vision of washington being more humble, folksy, it just resonated with more americans. We start to see the visuals, old tomb and new tomb, coincide with the hudson river school. Part of what this School Artistic express getting at was highlighting the bounty and discovered richness of the american landscape. You can see examples of this in the white house, at the met. But you know washingtons tomb became a place that artist continually captured, whether for engaifgs or actual pieces of art. Again it kind of always fits that same framework. You see a rustic setting, you see the tomb, and you see a very humble abode. And this is where the remains of George Washington are. Heres another engraving. But again now you can see things have kind of shifted. Now we have the new tomb, which is pointed towards the river, and you can see the mansion, you can see maryland in the background, the potomac river. Heres another example. Again and the other thing thats going kind of coinciding with this is that the artists are not formally trained either. When we talk about democratizing his memory, there are more and more people that are not necessarily trained in a normal sense, but theyre also in a way claiming washington for themselves, because theyre the ones who are capturing his tomb and grave site. Now for those that could afford could not afford to make the trip to mt. Vernon, these visuals made washingtons final resting place a part of american Popular Culture. While these representations worked well with the idea of a more democratic washington, there were many visitors who found the tomb simply unacceptable. They saw this as a sacred place and that the tomb needed to reflect that sacredness. And what many visitors start doing around that time period is they talk about going on a pilgrimage to mt. Vern orn. They use very deliberately selected religious language. Items taken from there are considered relics. They themselves are pilgrims. Whether they believed in it in the very Judeo Christian sense we think about today is debatable. But for americans who essentially had to invent a country and invent a government to go with it and invent a National Culture that would work with those institutions, washington was the natural selection. And because of this visitor traffic to mt. Vernon, we here these accounts of essentially people stripping trees of their branches or pulling off the leaves off the lemon tree. That was a big one. Or they would there was one great example where a man actually came and dug up and filled three througher barrels. He just wanted mt. Vernon dirt. What sounds a little bit strange to us it actually happened quite more often in the 19th century. This of course is a piece of the coffin fragment. So the original coffin that washington was buried in he was taken out of and put into a new coffin and then transported to the new saur cof gus once it was made for the new tomb. He was moved there in 1831 and put into the martial saur cof gus in 1837. These bits and pieces of what we would think of today as either theyre not something that most people would save or theyre not really sure where they came from, so most people would toss them. These are the types of things 19th century americans would hold on to and pass along to their family. This is a closeup shot of the marble sarcophogous. This was done by the masons. John strugters had offered to procure and build a marble one for washingtons remains, and the last living executor of the esstate took him up on the offer. William strickland zriend the crest and the eagle motif. He gives a very interesting account of them going to mt. Vernon with the newly finished saurcofgous and finding out that somebody might have mismeasured and they cant get it into the tomb. Theres this outer enclosure, because they needed to build a space that would be able to fit it. Georges and then marthas later. But by building this new tomb, this ensured that George Washington and mt. Vernon would remain intertwined forever. Which meant that any attempt to possess would mean purchasing the property. Both virginia and new york tried to do this but they couldnt reach the terms of the washington family. And this is where sort of our story then ends. So weve seen it from a Popular Culture side, a political side, economic side, and a historical interpretive side. Ultimately what it takes is an organized group, a private organization of likeminded people to come together and to raise the money to purchase the estate, which also included the tomb, that was actually part of the agreement. So the mt. Vernon ladies association, the union, emerges out of the thought process of anne pamela cunningham. She puts out a call to southern women to save it. When that doesnt really get as far, she decides, you know, maybe we to do need northern women. Theres this great line where she says, it might not be a bad idea to have the ears of those capitollists of the north. And she was right. Because if youre going to raise money, you need a larger infrastructure and need more people involved. So against actually the advice of the male secretary and some of the other southern women that shes been operating with, she decides to open it up to ener northern women as well, creating a national organization. They print the mt. Vernon record which keeps track of fundraising. They sell Gilbert Stewart portraits, and then enlist edward effo Edward Everett to go around and give speeches about washington and donate his ticket sales. Its a massive Fundraising Campaign and theyre able to do it in just a few years time. Pretty remarkable. By 1860 the ladies have taken essentially possession of the property. In one of their triumphant statements they say mt. Vernon belongs to the nation, it is the property of the nation. And really this process seems like you would think, oh, this is kind of the high point here. But then of course we have the civil war. And one frt immediate pressing concerns for the ladies was what are we going to do in the event that the federal government seizes mt. Vernon . Because, you know, it had seized arlington house where there was a cachet of washington relics. What would happen if the you kn knowon troops push on to the ground . Would they acquire the property . What they did, heres a picture of the troops visiting the tomb. They had guidelines and tried to remain neutral. One of the things they said, no fire aufrmz are allowed on the grounds. Soldiers are aloud to visit the tomb and see the home. But this was not supposed to be a place where this war was supposed to continue. This was supposed to be an island of neutrality. And in fact if you go to mt. Vernon today and look at the face of the new tomb loclosely, youll see initials, and a lot are from union soldiers. They may not have been able to take washingtons body, but some of them were probably making a mark on that tomb for a deliberate reason. And i think it was because they wanted to claim washington and they were essentially putting their mark on why they were fighting this war. And part of it was to uphold the memory of washington as a constitutionalist. As a president. Now, obviously the south had a very different interpretation of who washington was. You can look it up. The confederate seal featured George Washington on horseback. But again washington was so malleable he could be used by the free maysons, by southerners, slaveners, abolitionists. He kind of fit the bill in many different ways in different times of his life. The ladies appoint saurah tracy and Upton Herbert as the super intendent. The paring of a southerner and a northerner. This idea, its balanced, no reason to bring the war to our doorstep. So the history of how americans remember George Washington tells us more about how we have continuously struggled to define and connect significant fikzu figur figures of our national history, by constantly recasting him americans attempted to keep him relevant, to inspire feature citizens, to use his wisdom, and to promote shared religious briefs. These illuminate his importance in how we define who we are. This speaks to the paradoxes of the american character. It emphasizes how social groups remember the past but an integral praurt part is how groups determine what is remembered and forgotten. The memory of the republican washington served its purpose. But as the country demokratized, americans reimagined this to fit. The democratic washington came from humble origins, lacked a formal education, and tirelessly labored to achieve greatness in politics and personal wealth. This washington appealed to niebtth century americans. Many of whom faced the same circumstances, conditions and obstacles in their own lives. It did not take much more moernz to be convinced that washington had always supported political democracy. While our historical sources remain mostly intact how we conceptlize the past speaks to the future. This elv allusion in memory continues today. As americans often site the founders writings to justify positions, personal beliefs, or to criticize opponents. Washingtons words have been used to condemn the growing national debt, Foreign Policy decisions, and background checks for firearms. They have been used to promote protection of religious freedom, the second amendment, and the legalization of marijuanaa. These are often filled with incon stitsies. But howev it brings gravitas to the issue. The battle to reclaim George Washington endoourz, as americans much like their 19th century counterparts deliberately chose to remember a washington that comforts themselves, and adheres to their world views. Thank you. [ applause ] well i want to just pose a few questions, and then hopefully you all have some that you would like to ask as well. You mentioned the property of the nation, and clearly thats the title of the book. Did that phrase have an origin elsewhere . And what is the meaning behind that . This was a phrase that kept coming up in my research. I believe it originated with a man named alexander couldnt hansen. He was a federalist senator from maryland but also ran one of the most proliic profederalist newspapers. And right around the war of 1812 when theyre talking about the burning of the white house, the destruction of the capital city, and this idea of moving washington to richmond, theres really the first instance where i saw where they were saying washington shouldnt belong to one state. He belongs to the nation. He is the property of the nation. And i see that phrase pop up again and again and again. And one of the things that i argued is that this was part of a wider ethos, that americans all felt like they had some rightful claim to washington. And thats where the property of the nation, that idea, picks up steam moving into the 1820s and 18 30s. You talked about his death. And a few days later his burial. But what was the funeral process between in those few days . How was he grieved by his family . And how did did people come to mt. Vernon . Was there a service at mt. Vernon . And did faith play any role in that ceremony . Absolutely. Per washingtons instructions, he wanted to be laid out three days to ensure that he was dead, which was common at the time. There was a lot of americans had this fear that they would be buried alive. So one of the things they would tell people is, make sure ive been expired for some time. And then they would give their instructions. So washington was laid out in the new room at mt. Vernon, dressed in grave clothes. He was put out on the portico overlooking the river. And thats where the funeral would have taken place. And it was a private funeral, but they also sort of expected that it wouldnt be that private. People were going to catch wind of it. He was going to have his neighbors and citizens from the National Government and alexandria, and pretty soon, at least from the accounts ive seen, were talking about hundreds of people, as opposed to i think washington even said in private, in a private manner. So not all the wishes were closely adhered to. And some of the pallbearers were also premaysons, but they were also rectors at some of the local churches. Again we see that connection between free maceonry, the different schools and churches that washington supported as a citizen in his private life, and then those individuals also being responsible for leading the funeral procession down to the tomb, giving a series of last words. Theres a volley fired. And then washington is entombed in an old tomb. We saw images of the old tomb and then the new tomb. Why were there two tombs . Why was it necessary to have a new tomb . The old tomb probely was build by lawrence washington, so by the time of washingtons death it was quite a bit old. Its not very big either, so for washington family members buried there, space was limited. Washington in his will put aside money, he wanted the family to build a new tomb so that him and the remains of his family members could be moved there and then anybody else who came after them could also be buried there. But they waited about 30 years until they built the new tomb. So i dont know if part of it was just, they didnt feel like it was a priority at that time. But thats the reason why theres two tombs. You have the old tomb that dates to the 17th and 18th centuries and then the new tomb that was build built and finished later. The old tomb is still there, a feeling like the stone has rolled away when you see it. Its an interesting feel. Yeah, and some americans certainly when they were visiting and the visitor accounts, they talk about essentially being theyre in the presence of what seems like a saint of sorts. But then at other times you have some people saying, i wouldnt store my life stock in Something Like this. So theres a wide range of perceptions in what people put out there in terms of the press and their observations of the two tombs. You mentioned the will. There were a couple. How was that resolved . Washington had two wills. When he realized the end was probably near, he instructed tobias lear being . His private secretary. Tobias lear and martha brought the wills, and washington kept one and burned the other. So what exactly was in that other will . We will never know. Its sort of one of those great, you know, mysteries in history. But the one that he did keep was very specific about, you know, how Different Things were going to be divided, including freed about 123 people from the mt. Vernon esstate. He freed the slaves he opened. He couldnt free the ones that belonged to the cusstus yes sta estate. There were more working on mantations. For washington who i think generally speaking was very conservative, he didnt really color outside the lines a whole lot when it came to making i think a radical decision. That was one that i think most people overlook. Because, you know, his peers, thomas jefferson, james madison, they did not take that course. I thought it was interesting in your talk about freeing those enslaved to him and that they became storytellers there at the estate following. As their life continued and they were free, did they continue talking about washington . Are there stories, evidence that they became sort of biographers of him through the stories they told . Some of them did. The best example in the book is samuel anderson, who he pops up in the owe bit wareries in the 1840s, but he lives to be about 100 years old. And hes part of that process of being freed by the terms of the will. But he never goes far. In fact because a lot of these enslaved people had intermarried from the dour slaves from the custus estate, they have families. One of the side effects of how devised, some people were going to be freed, some werent. For a lot of people that had family still enslaved, they tried to stay close or follow along to the custus esstate because that was going to be their best bet of keeping their family together. His body never left the estate from the time he died until the time he was buried, never left the estate, period. And there were all of these attempts to move him to the capitol, to mitrichmond. Who stood in the way . The washington family. They had the authority. And this was i only mention bush rod washington. But martha had technically given her consent. She actually agreed to it. But the roe tunda wasnt built. So this was sort of a pipe dream of sorts. And the roe tunda wont be finished until the late 18teens. So it was a foregone issue. When it came up again obviously things have changed a lot plit otherically and in terms of zbloiksallism. Even though they said martha approved it, different representatives have different perspectives on how the will or marthas letters should be interpreted. It boiled down to virginians tended to say washington is in his native state. He was a virginian. They are kind of putting their stamp on who he was. He was a virginian. And members of the National Government, particularly whig representatives, they like to argue, dont you think delwawar or new york or pennsylvania has as much claim . It speaks to the fissures that are happening between different Political Parties at different times . How did word spread across the country that the great George Washington had died and what was the reaction nationally and how did people mourn and grieve him, not just at mt. Vernon but across the then country . It was a story is that got picked up quickly in the papers, starting with the alexandria gadset but working its way northward up to massachusetts and southward to georgia. Preyed soon within a week americans knew that George Washington was gone. And it fell really to the local communities, the state legislatures, to decide what types of mourning activities that he were going to do. One that sticks out in particular to me is there was actually a mock funeral where there was an empty coffin that was paraded through the streets, and it was really supposed to represent that washington, even though his physical remains arent there, were still going to have essentially a state funeral of sorts to honor his memory. Even though he had left the presidency by the time that he passed, its amazing to me that of our 45 president s, eight of them have died in office. And we even have great mourning of our or demonstrations of mourning of our former president s and first ladies, most republican president bush and barbara bush. Did the washington funeral and the way he was mourned as our first president set a precedent in any way for president ial mourning . Absolutely. Because, you know, washington is looked toward for a lot of president ial precedents. So not only during his time in office but then how does a former president interact in our new political culture, what type of role are they supposed to have . Are they supposed to be active . Vocal . Aside from the quasi war when perhaps washington was going to be called into military service again, he tried his best to stay out of those types of national affairs. But this idea of creating a state funeral really wasnt around until, you know, our first sitting president died in office, William Henry harrison. Where did they look . How the former president s had been mourned afterwards. And it was from the models of washington and jefferson and adams that they were able to concoct what the new american state funeral would look like. And with harrison really moving forward for sitting president s, it usually involves a service in the east room, the remains in the Capitol Rotunda where they lie in state, and then transport back to the president s home state. And i think that last part in particular is important because washington wasnt entumd in the capitol. If he was, what would have happened with the other president s . Where would they bury them . All be in the capitol . Some . But really from washington forward, you know, our leaders retire from politics, they go back to preveivate life, and fo the most part theyre privately interred. Lets wrap up our part of the conversation by talking about this place. We are the White House Historical association. He was the only one of our 45 president s who did not live in the white house. He selected the site, the young irish architect, james hogan, who built the white house. Did he see the white house . Did he see it under construction . He saw it once on his way back. He had left the presidency and heading back to mt. Vennon from philadelphia. I dont believe he actually ever set foot inside, but he did see it. And that was as close as he would get. What i tell people today, even though washington didnt live in the white house, he had his hands in just about every facet of that buildings design, planning, the execution, the selection of the architect, the plan, and washington was a pretty intense micromanager, so he was very involved every step of the way. Even though he didnt live there, its very much a representation of what washington envisioned the home of the american head of state should be. Of course as the portrait in the east room, but other images and references to washington in the white house today . Yeah, and theres a number of busts that are in the white house. We have the very famous Gilbert Stewart reproduction of the landsdown. One that i just noticed is that washington always seems to have a presence in the oval office. So it doesnt matter if were talking about republicans or democrats. Usually they do pick sides, as you can imagine. Republicans like republican president s, and democrats like democratic president s. But it seems like George Washington is always above in one form or another. Again, that also speaks to the importance of his legacy in terms of president ial leadership, and that it doesnt really matter whos sitting lind the desk in that office. Theyre still looking up and washington is still watching them on their job, so to speak. The current president s and first ladies can walk out on this truman balcony, look due south, and see the washington monument. To me its different obviously from the Lincoln Memorial that has the statue of the physical lincoln sitting there, the Jefferson Memorial with jefferson standing there. Why does washington get an on lusk and why is not there a great statue . They tried, but it floepd pretty horrendously. That might have been part of it. Horatio greeno was actually commissioned by congress to do a massive sculpture of George Washington. The original intent was to put it in the capitol roe tunda, it was going to be in the main level of the floor. And what he created was its sort of like a half naked George Washington. Hes wearing a towinga. He looks more like zeus. And by the time he finished it and it got to the United States in 1841, sensibilities about exposing your heroes, you know, most americans thought it was very distasteful, ugly, and they essentially put it it was in the capitol then they moved it outside the capitol, and i think now its actually in the smithsonian or one of the smithsonian museums. They had tried to do a Washington Statue and it didnt really work well. So the monument, that started in 1848, finished in 1884, i believe. And of course if were connecting the president ial mourning, sort of interesting that zackary tailor was there for a fourth of july celebration, thats where he got sick and ended up expiring. The idea behind the design was that it wasnt supposed to really capture any one facet of his life. There really was just supposed to be onlusks are supposed to be joint memorials. People remember what they want. I think the idea behind it was that its clearly a grand structure, its imposing, the center of the national mall, the center of the city that bears his name, and its not really descriptive one way or other another. People can take what they want. They can see that washington was important to all of them. Would he recognize washington today, not the happenings in the city but the physical city itself . I think he would recognize certain parts of it. Obviously a lot has changed. Certainly he would recognize the president s house and the capitol. He might recognize some of the streets because he was part of that surveying mission and he would probably know where they followed his plan and didnt, because he was that meticulous. But i think from washingtons perspective, you know, he had always envisioned this city to be the seat of a capitol of an empire, of a Great International power. The United States wasnt really there during washingtons presidency or really for the first ontten president s or so. The United States had a lot of things on its pleat, including westward expansion. I think the vision of this place being a seat of power, one that would impress visiting dig taries and foreign heads of state, but also be a place to educate citizens. I think he would see those things here. All right. Questions in our audience . I know mitch and luke are out here with microphones. If you have a question for matt, raise your hand, please. Anybody . I promised you a question. Great. So beginning with fdr, i believe at least some president s were entombed with their libraries, which kind of blurs the line between public patro money, the ownership of a body, although i believe the tombs at least like the museums arent part of the National Archives system, but theyre attached, the pafrpz. My question is, was any effort made after washingtons death to link his legacy to his papers that the nation could buy, that the nation could own . I know dolly tried to sell her husbands papers. Did the washington family try to sell his papers to the country . So there were some instances with washingtons papers, so the first one that comes to mind is john marshal, he essentially volunteers to the family that he is going to write the first major biography about forge washington. And theyre willing, bush rod washington is willing to hand over the papers. And every time that happens when a new biographer gets involved and the family says here, have at it, depending on who youre dealing with, some of them will just take papers, some cut them up like jarrod sparks. Its part of the reason why washingtons letters, i think the papers project is up to about 150,000 different bets and pieces of letters, but these letters become scattered. So the family holds on to the core collection, the George Washington part custus will get his hands on quite a few, but they get con fis skated, and then after the war theres a fight to get it back by the lee family, which they do get some back. But in terms of where theyre buried and how does it relate to the modern its interesting because those properties were, they were family properties. Right . So Franklin Roosevelt being buried at hyde park is similar too George Washington being buried at mt. Vernon. We have the creation of the edition of the National Archives in the 1930s and then hinging president ial papers, attaching it to a site of mourning. I think pretty much every president has followed suit with the exception of johnson who is buried at the ranch in texas, kennedy who was buried in arlington cemetery. But i think the rest of them are pretty much all at their president ial libraries but also theyre either boyhood homes or family homes. Again, it kind of there is no cut and dry rule. But it does seem that most modern president s see it as these two things go hand in hand. Whether its paying respects, but also, you know, i think it its very telling that our leaders want to be buried in a place where people are going to learn more about them, and also they want to make their presidency more accessible so that people can study the good and the bad that comes with both. So i think its pretty interesting that roosevelt does that, but then a lot of president s follow suit. Anybody else . Questions . Yeah. George washington had had laid the cornerstone of the white house . That is that myth . He did . No, he did not. His name was on the plate but he actually wasnt present at the ceremony. He was there for the laying of the cornerstone of the capitol. Okay. The capitol, but not at the white house . Uhhuh. Gayle, i introduced you before you came in. This is gayle west on our board of directors. She served on the mt. Vernon ladies association. Shes here with a strong representation from both sides. And other good friends, melissa nolan, betty the former white house curator in the back, great friends of ours. Appreciate your friendship and all you do for our organization. Its great to have you here tonight. [ inaudible question ] first floor as you enter on the left. You cant miss it. You cant miss it. Its massive. And this is terrible. [ laughter ] any other questions . It hasnt aged well. Any other questions . I have one that we can close with, and then i know everyone issed from in mingling with you at the reception and buying a book and getting you to sign it. But you closed your remarks by talking about his reputation has morphed over the years, how different politicians of all stripes would interpret or reinterpret or misquote him throughout time. And hes been the first president in the all things to all americans, so to speak. Why and how and how can George Washington be relevant today . And you heard me tell a story at lunch today about someone who a young person who saw the portrait of washington and said, who was that . And the answer was, well, its George Washington, the father of our country. And she said, this is an adult, she said, well, ive heard the name, but i dont think ive ever seen a picture of him. So the tragedy of historical illiteracy and i go noerchs in our country that you referenced as well, how can we make George Washington more relevant and powerful today . I mean, to your point, i mean i think historical literacy is a big problem. I know this is one of the things weve talked about in terms of our organization and Civics Education and our role, helping to educate the general public about the history of the white house. But, you know, this is its also it speaks to about educating the public about American History. And one of the things that i think most benefits anybody who wants to learn more about those things is that, washington i mean, hes pretty much involved in all of the major historical moments in founding the country. If you want to talk about the revolution, if you want to talk about the articles of confederation, the constitution, the presidency, i mean, washington is the key player for all of these things. And its not just that. If you want to try to learn more about highway the country on one hand can talk about life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom and equality, but at the same time, have slavery still exist, be on the founding, washington encountered that himself. It was something that later in life, being held up as the symbol of freedom, it struck him quite often, and it was something that he never forgot about. And i think its probably one of the reasons why he decided to free his slaves, is that he was very cognizant of legacy and how important it was that he would be remembered for these types of decisions that he made. Because everybody looked to him for the precedent. And i think anytime we talk about these types of historical topics, washington is a great lens for understanding, yes, these are different times, but also there are certain values and ideas that still resonate today. Thank you. Thank you all for being with us. And this is a great book. Its available outside. You can get all of your Christmas Shopping done here tonight by buying them all and having matt inskrooib it for you. Thanks for being with us. We invite you to the courtyard to enjoy the reception with us. Thank you very much. [ applause ] prepare to cast off. Prepare to cast off. Cast. May we cast off . Youre watching American History tv, covering history, cspan style. With event coverage, eyewitness accounts, archival films, lectures in College Class roochlz, and visits to museums and historic places, all weekend every weekend on cspan3. Next, on history bookshelf, Erica Armstrong dun bar talks about her book never caught, the washingtons relentless pursuit of their runaway slave. She recounts a story about a slave. Own a judge remained an escaped fugitive until her death. This was recorded at George Washingtons mt. Vernon
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