Census, no president has ever tried to manipulate the census count in this way. In fact, just two years ago, the Census Bureau reaffirmed its commitment to do the exact opposite of what the president is now trying to do. The bureau committed to counting every person, regardless of citizenship or legal status, under the rules of congress set in the census act of 1790. The president s decision to release this illegal memo, now appears designed to inflict maximum damage to the accuracy of the ongoing 2020 census. In just two weeks, the Census Bureau will start visiting the homes of millions of people who have not, yet, responded to the census. The president s latest attack on immigrants could sow fear and confusion in communities across the country. And could lead many people to decide not to participate. This will hurt communities that are already undercounted, underrepresented, and underfunded. Addressing the chaos caused by the president s memo will drain valuable resources from the Census Bureau, which is already struggling to administer the 2020 census, in the middle of an unprecedented pandemic. And it will further divide our country, at a time when we need unity. Of course, this is not the first time that President Trump has attempted to politicize the census. For more than two years, he tried to add a Citizenship Question, even though the Census Bureaus own studies showed it would depress Response Rates, in many communities. When this committee investigated secretary ross and other administration, officials denied they were trying to exclude immigrants from congressional apportionment. And, instead, claimed, falsely, that the department of justice needed citizenship data to enforce the Voting Rights act. The Supreme Court saw through their explanation. Calling it, quote, contrived, end quote. And blocking the addition of the Citizenship Question. And when secretary ross and attorney general barr refused to turn over documents about the real reason for the Citizenship Question, the house held them both in contempt. Now, the president is trying, again, to weaponize the census, to hurt immigrants, and help republicans. As a nation, we depend on the census to be nonpartisan, fair, and accurate. As i told director dillingham the last time he appeared before us, our constitution requires it, our communities rely on it, and our democracy depends on it. We are here today, at this emergency hearing, because the Trump Administration is threatening this cornerstone of our democracy. We will hear from four former Census Bureau directors, who oversaw the census during their botheir both republican and democratic administrations. They will share their views on the president s unprecedented attempts to manipulate the census count. And why it is important to count every person in the United States. Then, we will hear directly from the current Census Bureau director, dr. Dillingham. I expect dr. Dillingham to give an honest assessment of how the president s memo could impact the accuracy of the census, and what the bureau is doing to address this risk. I thank all of our witnesses for participating today. And i look forward to your testimony. I now recognize the distinguished, Ranking Member, mr. Comer, for an opening statement. Chairman maloney, i appreciate you calling this hearing today, on the 2020 census. Let me begin by saying, unequivocally, the 2020 census is counting every resident in the United States, regardless of citizenship status. Any assertions to the contrary are scare tactics, which have the consequence of reducing participation in the census. The census is you understaunder. I want to encourage every american to complete their census form. Starting in august, census enumerators will be fanning out across the country to count nonresponding households. I encourage everyone to engage with the enumerator if they come to your door but if you are concerned about an enumerator coming to your door, you can complete your census online now at my 2020 census. Gov. I truly wish the hearing today were an oversight hearing of the 2020 census. Because covid19 has created a lot of operational challenges for the census. Unfo unfortunately, this committee has conducted no oversight of these impacts. Once again, democrats are focusing their evidents fforts political issues, not the basic, Good Government oversight this committee is charged with conducting. Last week, President Trump took a very important step to ensuring the sanctity of our nations elections and equal representation, under the constitution. The president directed the secretary of commerce to report an apportionment count for the house of representatives, which excludes nonlegal residents in the United States, including Illegal Immigrants. All americans should care about who is being included in the apportionment count. Including Illegal Immigrants in the count for representation in congress only dilutes the representation of all americans who vote in elections, and makes a mockery of our basic principle of one person, one vote. The president s action restores the concept of representational government, envisioned by the constitution. In a country so closely divided as the United States, Illegal Immigrants and noncitizens have a material effect on representation. Representation should matter to everyone. Its a simple question of fairness. Predictably, the democrats liberal Interest Groups have already filed lawsuits against the president. Like the sound and fury surrounding the Citizenship Question, the legal questions about the president s action are likely toe wind up at the Supreme Court. This hearing today is the democrats first shot across the bow of chief Justice Roberts and the other Supreme Court justices. The intimidation of the Supreme Court begins today. I urge us all to focus on the task at hand. The completion of the 2020 census count, now underway. With that, i yield back. Thank you. Now, i would like to introduce our witnesses. Our first panel is composed of former census directors. We are grateful to have their expertise. Our first witness today is mr. Vincent baraba, who served as the census director from 1973 to 1976 and, again, from 79 to 1981. Then, we will hear from Kenneth Pruitt who served as the census director from 1998 to 2001. Next, we will hear and go to robert m. Groves, who served as the census director from 2009 to 2012. And finally, we will go to john h. Thompson, who served as the census director from 2013 to 2017. The witnesses will be muted so we can swear them in. Unmuted so that we can swear them in. Witnesses, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. I do. Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Without objection, your written statements will be made part of the record. And with that, mr. Baraba, you are now recognized for your testimony. Thank you. The thomas form hated in 1928 stated that if men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences. In essence, the potential that when incorrect situations are perceived by people as real, they are real in their consequences. Real problem with the president s current action is that by reintroducing his illegal desire of only counting citizens, many approaches hes taken to ensure he achieves his real objective. That is to make sure less people will be counted in states with large minority populations. If this occurs, those areas will have their representation in congress and other ledgislative districts reduced, as well. And they will receive fewer governmentapproved allocations, based on this census counting. However, the harm of filling out the form by noncitizens is not correct because it is against the law. Any Census Bureau employee to disclose or publish any census or survey information that identifies an individual and business. This is true even or interagency communications. The fbi and other Government Entities do not have the legal right to access this information. Violating the confidentiality of respondent is a federal crime, including a federal prison sentence of up to five years, a fine of up to 250,000, or both. In fact, when these protections have been challenged, theyve been upheld in the courts. I will now provide an example of how the Census Bureau and other agencies Work Together to follow title xiii. On august 13th, 1980, late that afternoon, florida fbi agents arrived at the District Office in Colorado Springs armed with a search warrant, authorizing them to seize the census documents. Concluding completed questionnaires. Of alleged questionnaire falsification and payroll fraud. I was immediately informed of the situation and contacted the director of the fbi. After a brief flurry of telephone calls to employees in colorado, we agreed to that could be reached by the disputed questionnaire remain in the custody of the Census Bureau. Also, admittedly, the documents are placed in a secure room, protected by two locks. With one key held by the fbi. And the other, held by a local census official. Under this arrangement, only sworn census employees were allowed to enter the room but an fbi agent had to be present. An agent outside the room to monitor activity of census personnel. Census bureau brought in experienced Census Bureau enumerators from outside the denver areas to reinterview respondents in the area where the fraud had taken place. Census Bureau Officials a report that did not reveal any confidential information. As the chairwoman mentioned, i served as Census Bureau director for president s of both political parties. 1980, i had the honor of providing secretary of commerce with the Census Bureau statement showing the population of the states and the number of representatives to which each state is entitled. I was, also, proud of the fact that our outreach program, which was lowincome and minority population, led to an estimated count of nearly 97 of our population. 1980 census was also a clear demonstration of the nonpartisan manner which a census should be conducted. 1980 census was designed and planned during a republican presidency, and successfully implemented, as designed and planned, during the democratic presidency. It will be up to cone guegress the press to make sure. And that is true motivation. The census belongs to the people, not the president. The entire population of persons in the United States should participate, willingly, in the 2020 census. A moment to reaffirm our founders that everyone be counted. Thank you. Thank you, so much, for your testimony and your service. We will now hear from dr. John eastman, professor henry salvatori, professor of law. And center for constitutional jurisprudence dale e. Valor school of law and senior fellow clairemont institute. Doct dr. Eastman. Should we go to another one . We seem to have some technical problems. Were going to go to the next speaker after dr. Eastman and come back to him because there seems to be a a problproblem wi connecting with him. Thank you. We will now turn to dr. Pruitt. Mr. Pruitt, you are now recognized. Thank you, very much, madam chairwoman. We know this this discussion h will include concern about the and putting the noncitizens and or the illegals into the apportionment count. I just have to say three things act that. First, weve done it. The census has never done it. Second, they cant do it by asking questions. Youre not going to knock on the door and say, are you . Are you not . And, third, the administrative records are inadequate to do it. So, even if it was a good idea, we dont yet know we dont yet know that we can do it. That the Census Bureau can do it. And with that as my starting point, i want to go on and say some things about the larger census, as as as the Ranking Member invited us to do. We we all know that were about 62 with respect to nonresponse with respect to selfreporting. But that leaves, you know, more than a third of the population uncounted. And i have to really stress this point. Nonresponse followup, hard to count. Very difficult census territory, as we all know. And we are not in control. The we is the Census Bureau, the we is the congress, the we is the white house. Covid is in control of whether we will be able to, that is, the Census Bureau, will be able to do this count successfully, before the end of the year, which theyre now on that on that schedule. And we know about 15 of the American Population has already told us, in polls, that they do not intend to cooperate with the census. And so, id like to make two, three, quick points. How do i define success . The bureau will know, as no other unit of government can, if the numbers will accurately apportion and fairly distribute funds for a decade. It knows that the census count is the denominator of every Vital Statistics we rely on. Whether the number whether its the number of consumer products. Whether its differential rate of infection across the population subgroups on the pandemic, and so forth. Every number that we use for ten years is anchored to the quality of the census. Secondly, the bureau knows that these statistical facts can, easily, damage. And the flawed numbers that will be produced, that will inflict on society, will create serious damage to this society. And its not its not pretty. Ten years and Homeless Veterans because we mislocate mislocate their sorry hospitals. Ten years of Tropical StormDisaster Relief that is too little, too late, because traffic congestion, poor planning by local School Districts because they have flawed estimates of how many first graders are going to show up. Ten years of misled chamber of commerce because predictions of population growth and characteristics are off base. We know that will be the consequences of of a census that does not count, as best it can. Quite quite separate from whos in the apportionment count, we have to start with a good census. The third thing i would say about this is the bureau will not want to inflict the damage that flawed numbers will produce. The Census Bureau is too honorable, too scientific, too proud of its professional standards, to faithful to its constitutional duties. The bureau will struggle with the enormous burden of whether to release substandard results. I urge the congress to share the burden. I would ask the congress to, please, appoint, using the National Academy of sciences or some other apolitical, trusted institution of its choosing, to produce predetermined, quality metrics, that can assess if the final 2020 numbers reasonably match what the bureau knows that they should be. And the bureau has very good estimates from acs, from the demographic analysis, very good estimates of how many people across the states, all the way down to the censustrack levels. And so, if we can have this special group of experts to sort of create the metrics, by which we will judge if we have an adequate census, to do what its supposed to do. And if not, what steps should the country take . Thank you. Were going to return to dr. Eastman, if we have solved the difficulties of reaching him. Dr. Eastman . Lets try lets try this again. Can you hear me now . Yes, we can. Very good. Thank you. Chairman maloney, Ranking Member comer, other members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to participate in this important hearing. I, actually, think President Trumps directive is, not only good policy but, perfectly constitutional. And i want to address, real quickly, something mr. Pruitt said. I think theres a confusion here between the two purposes that we use the census for. One is for apportionment, set out by article i, section 2 of the constitution. The other, exercised in congress to expend its power is to do a whole myriad of other things, like allocate resources, determine where we need schools and va hospitals, and what have you. President trumps order addresses the apportionment part of that. It doesnt have anything to do with the broader purpose of a total count on the census. And i think the political theory underlying the reason we have in the apportionment clause is extremely important. And so, let me begin with that. We get our political theory from the declaration of independence. It sets out universal principles, all men are created equal. That we are endowed, by our creator, with certain unalienable rights. But we apply those principles in a particular context. The declaration starts off talking abo talki talking about one people separating themselves from another. The consent of the people to be governed, not on the consent of people elsewhere