Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oral Histories Eugene DiSabatino 2024

Cspan radio up. 75 years ago, in the summer of 1945 the United States dropped two atomic bombs on japan, one on here shimon august six and the other are nagasaki on august 9th. And this oral history recorded in 2012, by the national will work to museum, army veteran, eugene disabatino, talks about his assignments to the manhattan project, which included being stationed at loss alamos and working while the bomb dropped over nagasaki. The National World War Ii Museum provided the video. I was born in wilmington, delaware. And basically, i grew up in wilmington, delaware. My family had a Construction Business there, which was quite old, it is still in business. And i went to school in delaware, i went to the university of delaware, my history basically was in delaware before i went into the service. I tried to enlist in the service the minute we were attacked by japan, but i was color blind and i couldnt get in. But they had what they called the enlisted reserve corps, which they let College Students go into with the idea that you would serve a basic training and then you would go back to school and their thinking was that maybe this war wasnt going to go too far. You go back to school and you start again, wherever you left off. So i want to try to enlist, i was color blind, has to go back. Finally, i got in the army but i was restricted and what i could do. I want to texas for basic training. I spent 16 weeks in texas. They sent me from texas to the university of connecticut, to continue my education. Unfortunately, when i got to the university of connecticut, i found out i had had everything that they were teaching, i had already been through. So i reported to them that i was wasting my time and they suggested that they would send me up to mit. And that is what happened, they sent me to mit, i did my time at mit from mit i was sent to and why you. And from nyu i went to los alamos. Tell me the process first of all, what were you studying at mit end and what you . I was basically an engineering the whole time. Because that is what i had done in college. I was a Civil Engineer, i graduated before i went to mit and nyu. Once you finished it and why you, how did you end up at los alamos . I was just selected one day, the officers came to requests. I guess it was in at nyu, and they interviewed us and one of them said well, you are going to go on an assignment someplace else. So we will just give you your orders in a few days and you are going to be out of here. That is when they picked me to go to oak ridge, tennessee, which is where i went to and from there i started out and then went to los alamos. But i went by train, no air conditioning, we ended up in les me, new mexico, which is about 16 or 20 miles from lasagna almost. They picked us up an army trucks and delivered us to lasalle almost. And thats how i got there and the first guy we met was a major who was in charge of security. Major to silva, of course he told us we were going to be restricted to that base for a total period that we were in loss los alamos, and we wouldnt be let out of there and if we violated security in any way, we would probably end up over an africa someplace in the weeds. That is how we started off and then they change their mind, because they found that a lot of us that any of us had experience at all in the service. We do know what a salute was. They just know we were in the service. When you were first sent to oak ridge, did you know what was going on in oak ridge . No. I didnt have any idea, i was put into barracks and just said, stay there, and a couple days, they came and got us and said come on, were leaving. That was that. I had no idea what was going on or no courage, none. At the point that you had major to silva, did you have any idea then . No. It was typical of service in that particular situation, you wouldnt believe it would happen and you would be standing in the middle of it in that you would know what was happening there was a lot happening that you to know about it was happening and you didnt know. I didnt know what they were doing at oak ridge, i didnt know what they were doing a loss alamo, so i had no idea about anything. All i know is what i was doing. What happened to you next within a couple days after we arrived. They were called to a big assembly room, and the physicists who were listed that were lost almost, los alamos in those days, they began an interview. These physicists had a list of people in their hands and they would call the name and whoever this person was would go out and they would have an interview, and they would decide where this guy or girl was going to be assigned. In my case, they got all the way down that i was the last one in the room. When Norman Ramsey walked in the room and said, you are a Civil Engineer, i dont know what were going to do with you. And that was my introduction as i said, i didnt get myself out there. So we worked from there. By that night, i knew what we were doing, he told me what we were doing. And of all the people i knew and that site, at that time, nobody knew what we were doing except me. None of the gis new, they knew they were working in the Technical Area or they knew they were working here or there, they didnt really know what they were doing. They knew this was of a job they were doing, but they had no idea why they were doing that job. How does he explain to you what it was that you are doing . He had to tell me ultimately. After he found out that i was a Civil Engineer and i was there, and he was going to have to use me, he said, come on to my office with me. He took me to his office and he said heres what were going through, were going to build a big bomb and were going to drop it. And he said, ramsey is in charge of the Delivery Group to get this bomb over japan. And he said, you are going to be on my team. He said there are only five of us on the team. Our first job, believe it or not, was to develop ballistic tables to use to drop this bomb. And we did that. We had a pilot and a bomb bird year from akron, ohio yuck. My recollection was that the pilots name was shields, and the bombard ear was named simple. We went over with the plane and drop some dummy bombs and these were bombs that look like pumpkins basically. They would drop them and we would photograph them and then we would work backwards to find out how you had to set the bomb site, to make those bombs go where you wanted to go. We had to develop the bond tables before we could start to drop the bombs. We did that for sometime. And i worked on that with two gis. 3g eyes. One from chicago and two were not engineers at all, one was a young boy from chicago. There were five of us working on that. Tell me about how you ended up that wind over. I ended up in wind over just because they were going to open up a test site. They brought this five bombardment group, theyve been in europe flying be 17. They came to the United States, picked up a bunch of b 17s and they were sent to wind over. They had to have somebody to run wind over. And i had no idea, i happened to be standing in the right place at the right time, for me. They just said one day, you are going to leave loss alamos, los alamos tomorrow and you are going to end up supposedly in wind over. I took a devious routes to do that. I had to go to kirkland in albuquerque, i had to change from gi close to civilian clothes. I went out and got on a c 47, i didnt know who was on the c 47. And then we leave and we follow a flight plan for Salt Lake City, or for las vegas. And before we get there, the pilot changes the flight plan and we turn off and we go to wind over. Los alamos thinks we are going to las vegas and they dont know we have gone to wind over. And that was part of the security. And then, of course, from wind over we flew over california and ultimately, the c was developed so that they could take off at window over, when be 29s, flying over the San Francisco down the west coast and then fly in over the salt sea and make the bomb drop on the target was floating in the sea. The idea, trying to replicate a long flight with that bomb on in the bomb bay. Meantime, they are making all the measurements up in the plane to make sure that the bomb is riding the way it should, and we are on the ground with cameras, waiting for them to drop that bomb so we can take a picture to see where it lands and how accurate they are. Checking the readings that we have been giving them to use on the bomb site. Occasionally, we would not only drop the bomb but we would go back, if it missed the target by sizeable amount, we would go back in the desert and to get up, dig down 25 or 30 feet and bring it back up and see if we could figure out if the tail bent or Something Like that. That was all part of it. Meantime, i lived in the officers quarters there. Wearing civilian clothes. These young guys used to shove cue sticks in my face, bang my newspaper or magazine because they thought i was a draft dodger. But they didnt know, so did matter. You couldnt even let them know that you were in the u. S. Army. No, nobody down their new. No. They couldnt. Because then id go from there back to salt sea. Once a month, i would go back to los alamos because i had to go back to get paid. Since i was a gi, i would go back, i would get my sergeants pay and the next day, a whack would drive me back down to kirkland field again, captain winds low would come get my clothes off of me, put civilian clothes on me, and i would take off for window for again. That went on once a month. Until almost the end. How long were you at los alamos before they sent you to wind over . I probably worked at los alamos for six months or so, working on you. We had machines that they used in hollywood to splice film. In the movie industry. That is what we used to read, the transmissions from the. Airplanes that was dropping these bombs that way we can work backwards c where the bomb left flame and were hit the ground. Figures that way. So i probably spent six months or so. Did you say were already married at that point . No i got married at the end of the war when i got back. Thats how i got back. A top channel flower into letting me come back to get married. And berkeley california. Tell me a little bit more what was it like it loss elements. Nobody can talk about what theyre doing . Last animals basically it sat up on top of a mountain. It was a boy school at one time a very exclusive boys school. To get there, you had to drive up a road up the side of the mountain. If you went off the side of the road, you had a nice roll. And when you got to the a gate at the top, they stopped you got your red identity and so forth. From there, you go on in first thing you came into was the Technical Area, the beginning of the Technical Area. It was up on a level part and it was a drugstore there, and a Grocery Store and so forth. Thats also where the original boy school was. It came to that first. And when it came to that hill and down to the bottom thats where all the military personnel was. The engineers, the military, i mean the what do you call them . The the army police the mps. The mps had their barracks. He went all through that, went to the bottom. Then when you got to the bottom of the hill, you began to get into the various areas where everything was restricted. You couldnt go there unless you work there. There were many sites back in the cells where only the people who worked on that particular compound could go to work. I couldnt go wandering around somebody else is site. I was restricted to my site where i worked. So the play spread out quite a long way. Ive been back since and of course its much larger now. That were you met your wife . Tell me a little bit about that and about her. As i said, she work for the university of california for an aviation lab at berkeley. She was a single girl. My recollection is when i met her that she might have been working at a bookstore, im not sure. She had gotten her degree from university, and she was working for the university and she also had a side job working at a bookstore in berkeley. I met are there. The university of california asked her to go to los alamos. She was saying, well i have nothing else to do important to do, so what do you want me to do when i get there . Well, youre going to be a secretary to admiral parsons and ramsey, you work in that office. , now one thing she did have the talent, she could do anything in the secretarial field. She also had a college degree, so she was the lead person in the office. There was another girl by the name of hazel green bakr who was also a secretary but she was not college material. Thats how marie claire got started. I matter just walking back and forth in the halls and as i pointed out, i stopped and gawked at her and she wanted to know what the heck i was looking at. I told her the best looking legs in los alamos and that did. I asked her for a day, and she wouldnt go. And she called me at attendees later and said i have a free night. That was all i needed. Something i wanted needed to tell me about, tell me about hash worth, you mention it a little bit earlier. Tom about working with him, what he was like . When i met ash worth, he was a commander so he was no stinky little guy like i was. He showed up in the office it and introduce himself. He had a great big english bulldog that he had with him. Whenever he was in the Technical Area you had the dog with them. He was a weapons officer and he told me he was going to start running this particular part of the show and i was going to be working with them. That was fine with me, because he was one of the finest guys ever met in my life. So i began work with him and i particularly remember that it out that english bulldog with them, and the dogs tongue would fall out, and ash were would pick the tongue and put it back in the dogs mouth. When we started out assault in sea and when dover, hash worth primarily and loss alamos although he did direct what was going on at sultan c and. Him went over he was doing it through me. He was telling me what to do. But he was a great guy. I will read the story what were youth. Time i was a surgeon. Tell me about the meeting you had with ramsey nash worth and you want to get your civilian clothes in delaware about your father all that stuff. Well, i told you that they decided i should be traveling in civilian clothes. They didnt want me traveling in uniform. Now one thing we had, there were a lot of people in wind over i mean sultan sea and loss alamos who worked around the country in various capacities who traveled for instance in uniform. An ordinary civilian would go for instance a bomb released mechanism was designed and built by the Dupont Company in wilmington delaware. The engineer in charge of that project would put on an Army Officers uniform, generally maybe as high as a major and he would go to wellman wilmington, delaware and inspect the work that was going on. He would identify him self as major soandso and thats the way it was against excepted. In my case, we did at the other way around. I was the only one i know in los alamos that went around in civilian clothes and did what i did. To the best of my knowledge, nobody else went from uniformed to cities except me. Now when these guys went where they went, fell i was telling about went to delaware, i came from delaware. I knew the dew pop company, i knew exactly where he was going so when he when he was telling families in a duo is describing where he was gonna be. He just worked on the development. Tell me the he go home and get your close italian dad whats going on, talk about your father. Well, i pulled in, when im when they sent me home i got on a c 47 to my recollection, now im having trouble. I might have gone back to delaware on a train but when i got to delaware i showed up my fathers house, knocked in the door, he opened the door and almost drop dead. He wanted to know what was i do, and why was i there and i said i have to get some civilian close. Then immediately he starts, i dont understand, youre in the army why do you need civilian clothes. Well i said im not supposed to tell you about that. We had a good day, and i told him i had to go to philly the next day, because i couldnt get close in wellington wilmington and he bud me the whole time. Why are you doing, this area sure you didnt do something wrong. I dont think this has to be part of the story but but while were doing this hes got his wallet pulled out, pulling a 20 dollar bills. I feel like ive dieting gone to heaven. So the next day we got in the car and went to philadelphia. My recollection is that it was a place called bond. I had been there before, we went in bout these clothes. Then i had some trouble with a policeman which ended up being a non event but it shook my father up. He really got to the point where he was suspicious. He thought something wrong was happening. We talked about it we talked about it off camera tell me what happened with the Police Officer. The Police Officer was right. I had gone through red a red light. Who was one of those things where youre going a little too fast and a light changes and you cant stop. He immediately he immediately jumped on the had. Me he pulled me over. First he looked in the car and he said how come you are not in the army . I said im just not in the army. I dont understand, a guy raging out in the army . I said nominate not in the arm. He said you just ran a light back there. I said okay if i did i did im sorry. I knew i had slipped through it. I didnt mean to. He said well i dont understand this. Everybody is in uniform and youre sitting there at your age with no uniform. So i was told before i left loss alamos. I was given that car and they said were gets to the if it gets to the point if it gets a little sticky and hard. The card said this person is representing the United States research and development blah blah blah. It had a name on it, please do not delay him. Whatever he is doing is legitimate. He read that and he looked at me for a bit and then he almost threw the car that me and he said i dont know what youre doing but go ahead. Of course my father wanted to know what the card said because i hadnt shown it to him. I wouldnt show it to. When you do these kinds of things, some of the rules you have to kind of make them up yourself. I knew that i wasnt supposed to hand in that card my father that is. Of course, he was absolutely adamant that he had to see that card. After going to buy any civilian clothes, he was suspici