Sponsor of the debate between republican george bush and democrat geraldine ferraro. Our panelists are john mashich, world news and world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, norma quarrels, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for night ritter newspapers. Sandra venoger, senior Political Correspondent for abc news, is our moderator tonight. Sandy . Thank you, dorothy. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro won the toss. She elected to speak last, therefore, Vice President bush will get the first question. The debate will be billed upon a series of questions from the four reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, and then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts. There will be a section, the first one, on domestic affairs, the second on Foreign Affairs. Now, the manner of address was decided by the candidates, therefore, it will be Vice President bush, congresswoman ferra ferraro. And we begin our questioning with mr. Mashich. John adams, the nations first president , once said, today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. With that in mind, i would like to ask the following question. President bush, four years ago you ran against bill clinton on the equal rights amendment, abortion, and you even labeled his economic policies as voodoo. Now you apparently agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line, or would you revert to some of your own ideas . I dont think theres a great difference, mr. Mashich, between my ideas and president reagans. One reason i think were an Effective Team is i believe firmly in his leadership. Hes really turned this country around. We agree on the economic program. When we came into office, why, inflation was 12. 5 , Interest Rates wiping out every single american were 21. 5 , if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings was down. There was despair. In fact, the leadership of the country told the people that there was a malaise out there. And this president turned it around, and ive been with him every step of the way. And of course i would continue those kinds of programs because its brought america back. America is better off. People are going back to work. And why mr. Mondale cant understand that there is a new enthusiasm in this country that america is back, there is new strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem raise everybodys taxes. He looked right into that lens and he said out there in san francisco, he said, im going to raise your taxes. Well, hes had a lot of experience in that, and hes sure going to go ahead and do it. But i remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around at why his party people werent supporting him. And he said, hey, they painted their tails white and they ran with the antelopes. There is a lot of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one single democrat has introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course the support the president s economic program, and i support him in everything else. And im not sure, because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i didnt, id go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter, jump away from it. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan now, next year or any other time. I have too much trust in him, i have too much friendship for him, and i would feel very uncomfortable doing that. Some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision in the Reagan Administration and its inner circles, and where in your judgment does loyalty begin and principle begin . I owe my president my judgment. Then i owe him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there looking over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Fehr rraro has quite a few differences with mr. Mondale and i supported her on tax credits. He now says he was against it. If they win, and i hope they dont, but if they win, shell have to accommodate some views, but shell give him the same kind of loyalty that im giving president reagan. One, were not far apart on anything. Two, i can walk into that oval office any time and give him my judgment, and he might agree and he might not. But he also knows i wont be talking about it to the press or i wont be knifing in the back by leaking to make me look good and complicate the problems of the president of the United States. Congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives, hes been ambassador to the united nations, ambassador to china, member of the Intelligence Agency and now hes been Vice President for three years. How does your experience stack up to that . First of all, i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that as well. I was a prosecutor for five years in a District Attorneys Office in new caney and i was a teacher. Its not what your education is and how you held office. Its what your values are. I think if people look at my career, theyll see that im level with the people, i approach problems an liticala level with the people, i approach problems an liticalnal and i can make decisions. I, too, recall when Vice President bush was running in the primary against president reagan and he called the program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. We are facing absolutely massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. The president has failed to put forth a plan to deal with those deficits. And if everyone believes that everything is coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should join me as i travel around the country and speak to people. People in johnstown, pennsylvania are not terribly thrilled with whats happening in the economy because theyre standing in the light of a closed plant because theyve lost their jobs. People in youngstown, ohio have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. Its not only the Old Industries that are failing, its also the new ones. In san jose, california, theyre complaining because they cant export their hightech quality goods to japan and other countries. The people in the northwest, in the state of washington and oregon, are complaining about whats happening to the Timber Industry and the agriculture industry. So things are not as great as the administration is wanting us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling, quite frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make the tough decisions and level with people with reference to these problems. Despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women, at least according to the polls, favor the reaganbush ticket over the mondaleferraro ticket . I dont. Lets say im not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about are problems that are facing the entire nation. Theyre not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war peace issues, the problems of deficits, the problems of trade deficits. We are now facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. Were facing problems of the environment. I think what were going to be doing over the next several weeks, and im absolutely delighted the league is sponsoring these events and were now able to speak to the American Public and address the issues in a way such as this. I think youre going to see a change in those polls. Vice president bush, you have one minute to rebuttal. Well, i was glad to get that vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro in my economic judgment. So let me make a statement on the economy. The other day she was a plant in a plant, and she said, why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . There was a long, deadly silence, and she said, come on, we delivered. Thats the problem. Im not blaming her except for the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates that were right off the charts. They delivered takehome pays, checks that were shrinking, and we delivered optimism. People were going back to work, 6 million of them, and 300,000 jobs a month being created. Thats why there was that deathly silence out there in that plant, they delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Congresswoman ferraro, one minute rebuttal. I think what im going to have to do is im going to start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people who have jobs. Thats supposed to happen in a growing economy. In fact, in the Prior Administration, with all their problems, they created 10 million jobs. The housing Interest Rates during this administration for all americans was 14. 5 . Under the Prior Administration with all their problems, the average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, 6 Million People. 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. You can walk around saying things are great. If thats what were going to be hearing, weve been hearing that on the commercials for the past couple months, i expect they expect the American People to believe that. Ill become a onewoman squad and well start tonight. Mr. White, congresswoman ferraro, id like to ask you about civil rights. You have been a supporter for tax credits for private and parochial schools and also to ban busing. Both of these measures proposed not only by your running mate but by every civil organizational right in the country. Have you changed your position on those . With regard to the busing rate that i proposed in 1979, both reagan and i agree on the same goal, and that is nondiscrimination. I just dont agree in the same direction he does on how to achieve it. But i dont find any problem with that. I think thats something handled by the courts and not handled by congress or the white house. We both support the integration of neighborhoods, the goals we both set forth. With reference to tax courts, i represented queens. I represented my district. Let me say as well ive also been a great supporter of Public School education. And that is something that fritz and i feel very, very strongly about for the future of this country. This administration, over the past several years, has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants which are moneys to young individuals who are poor and who cannot afford to go to college. It has reduced by 25 the amount of moneys going into College Education and by a third those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel very strongly that if you educate your children that thats an effort and the way you build up and make a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, you have to go beyond that, and if you look at my record in the congress and Fritz Mondales record in the senate, we both have very strong civil records. This administration does not. It has come in on bobs case in civil academies, it came in on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped and the elderly. In fact, in congress, we just passed overwhelming the civil rights bill of 1984 and this administration, the republican senate, just killed it the last week or two in congress. So there is a real difference between how the Mondale Ferraro administration will handle particularly this area. What steps do you think government can take to increase the representation of minorities and women in the work force and colleges and universities, and specifically, would you support the use of quotas to achieve those goals . I do not support the use of quotas. Both mr. Mondale and i feel very strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe steps should be taken both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. We have supported setasides for minority and womens businesses. Thats a positive thing. We dont feel that youre in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmative action to help those who have been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody and affirmative action is a very positive way of dealing with the problems of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently, perhaps, encouraged that view by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibusing amendment decided by a case in the Supreme Court, your Voting Rights extension and so forth . No, mr. White. I think our record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension that was extended for the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. And i think our record deserves better. We have done more for black colleges than any Previous Administration. We favor enterprise zones to give and its been blocked by tip oneill and that house of representatives, those liberals in that house blocked a new idea to bring jobs into black communities across this country. And because its not an old handout special federal spending program, its blocked there. A good idea. Id like to see that tried. Weve brought more civil rights cases in the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenaged kids. The minimum wage differential. It says, look, to an employer, hire these guys. Yes, theyre willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job in we threw out the old cita that didnt train people for jobs that existed and simply rammed them onto the government payroll and we put in a thing called the job, Training Partnership act. Wonderful new legislation thats helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. And, for example, when crime figures are going in right direction, thats good. Thats a civil right. Similarly, we think of it as quality of life, and that means Interest Rates. You know, its funny, mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you go down and try to buy a tv set or buy a car or whatever it is. And the Interest Rates, when we left off, was 21. 5 . Inflation. Is that a civil right to have that going right off the chart so youre busting every american family, those that can afford it the less . No, we have a good record. We have the minority set asides and more help for black colleges and weve got it in terms of an economy thats offering people opportunity and hope instead of despa despair. Along those lines, sir, many recent studies have indicated that the poor and minorities have not really shared in the new prosperity generated by the current economic recovery. Was it right for your administration to pursue policies, economic policies that require those at the bottom of the economic ladder to wait for prosperity to trickle down from people who were much better off than they . Mr. White, its not trickling down. And im suggesting the way to work out a poverty is through real opportunity, and in the meantime, the needy are getting more help. Human resource spending is way, way up. Aid for dependent children spending is up. Immunization programs are up. Almost every place you can point contrary to the mr. Mondales i have to be careful. Contrary to how he goes around just saying everybody bad if somebody sees a silver lining. He finds a big, black cloud out there. Wane on harvest moon. Theres a lot going on. A lot of opportunity. Congresswoman ferraro, your rebuttal. The Vice President indicates that the present sign, the Voting Rights act, that was after he he did not support it while he was in the congress and the senate. It was passed despite his opposition and he did sign it because he was required to do so. In the civil rights cases that he mentioned, a great number of cases they have enforced, the reason they enforced them is because under the law they are required to do that. And im delighted that the administration is following the law. [ applause ]. With reference excuse me. This will be out of my time, not yours. Knowing and cherishing the people of this city, and knowing their restraint and motion especially in