Ferraro. Our panelists for the debate are john mashek, National Correspondent for u. S. News and world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, norma quarrels, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for night ridder newspapers. Sander van oaker, senior Political Correspondent for abc news is our moderator tonight. Sandy . Thank you, dorothy. A few words about the order of our format tonight. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro won the toss. She elected to speak last. Therefore, Vice President bush will get the first question. The debate will be built upon a series of questions from the four reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, and then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts. There will be a section, the first one, on Domestic Affairs. The second on Foreign Affairs. Now the manner of address was decided by the candidates. Therefore, it will be Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro. And we begin our questioning with mr. Mashek. John adams, our nations first president , once said, today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. With that in mind, id like to ask the following question Vice President bush, four years ago you ran against mr. Reagan for the republican nomination. You disagreed with him on such issues ads the equal rights movement, abortion, and you even labeled his economic policies as voodoo. Now you apparently agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line, or would you revert to some of your own ideas . Well, i dont think theres a great difference, mr. Mashek, between my ideas and president reagans. One of the reasons i think were an Effective Team is that i believe firmly in his leadership. Hes really turned this country around. We agree on the Economic Program. When we came into office, inflation was 12. 5 , Interest Rates wiping out every single american, 21. 50 if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings was down. There was despair. In fact, the leadership of the country told the people that there was a malaise out there. And this president turned it around, and ive been with him every step of the way. And of course i would continue those kind of programs because its brought america back. Americas better off, people are going back to work, and why, mr. Mondale cant understand that theres a new enthusiasm in this country, that america is back, theres new, strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem raise everybodys taxes. He looked right into that lens and said out there in san francisco, he said, im going to raise your taxes. Hes had a lot of experience, and hes sure going to do it. But i remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around, why his party people werent supporting him. And he said, hey, they painted their tails white and they ran with the ant lopes. Theres a lot of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one single democrat has introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course i support the president s Economic Program, and i support him in everything else. And im not sure because of my concept of the vice presidency that if i didnt id go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter jump away from him. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan now, next year, or any other time. I have too much trust in him. I have too much friendship for him. And id feel very uncomfortable doing that. Some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision of the Reagan Administration and its inner circles and following that up, where in your judgment does loyalty end and principle begin . I owe my president my judgment. And then i owe him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there looking over his shoulder wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Ferraro has quite a few differences with Vice President mondale, and i understood it when she changed her position on tuition tax credits, theyre different on bussing. She voted to extend the grain embargo. He now says that he was against it. If they win, hope they dont if they win, shell have to accommodate some views, but shell give him the same kind of loyalty that im giving president reagan. One, were not far apart on anything. Two, i can walk into the oval office any time and give him my judgment and he might great or might not, but i wont be talking to the press or knifing in the back by leaking to make me likelihood goiook good in fr president of the United States. Congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives, ambassador to the united nations, ambassador to china, director of the Central Intelligence agency and now Vice President for four years. How does your three terms in the house of representatives stack up against experience like that . Well, let me first say that i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that, as well. I was a prosecutor for almost five years in the District Attorneys Office in queens county, and i was a teacher. It is not only what is on your paper resume that makes you qualified to run for or to hold office. Its how you approach problems and what your values are. I think if one has taken a look at my career, they see that i level with the people, that i approach problems analytically, that i am able to assess various facts with reference to a problem, and i can make the hard decisions. Im intrigued when i hear Vice President bush talk about his support of the president s Economic Program and how everythings just going so beautifully. I, too, recall when Vice President bush is running in the primary against president reagan and he called the program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. We are facing absolutely massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. The president has failed to put forth a plan to deal with those deficits, and if everything believes that everything is coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should join me as i travel around the country and speak to people. People in johnstown, pennsylvania, are not terribly thrilled with whats happening in the economy. Theyre standing in the light of a closed plant because theyve lost their jobs. The people that youngstown, ohio, have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. Its not only the Old Industries that are failing, its also the new ones. In san jose, california, theyre complaining because they cant export their hightech goods to japan and other countries. The people in the northwest, the state of washington and oregon are complaining about the Timber Industry and the agriculture industry. So things are not as great as the administration is wanting us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling quite frankly is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make the tough decisions and level with people with reference to those problems. Despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women, at least according to the polls, favor the reaganbush ticket over the Mondale Ferraro ticket . I dont. Let me say that im not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about are problems that are facing the entire nation. Theyre not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war peace issues. The problems of deflicits, trad deficits, were facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. Were facing problems in the environment. I think what were going to be doing over the next several weeks, and im absolutely delighted that the league has sponsoring these debates and that we are we are able to now speak to the American Public and address the issues in a way such as this. I think youre going to see a change in those polls. Vice president bush, we have one minute to rebuttal. Well, i was glad to get that vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro in my economic judgment. Let me make a statement on the economy. The other day she was in a plant and said to the workers, why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . And there was a long silence and she said, come on, we delivered. Thats the problem. Im not blaming her except for the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates that were right off the charts. They delivered takehome pays, checks that were shrinking, and weve delivered optimism. People are going back to work, six million of them, and 300,000 jobs a month being created. Thats why there was that deathly silence in the plant. They delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Congresswoman ferraro, one minute rebuttal. I think what im going to have to do is im going to start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are six million more people who have jobs, thats supposed to happen in a growing economy. In fact, in the Prior Administration with all their problems, they created ten million jobs. The housing Interest Rates during this administration for housing for middleclass americans was 14. 5 , under the Prior Administration with all their problems, the average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, six Million People, 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. You know, its you can walk around saying things are great, and if thats what were going to be hearing, weve been hearing that on the commercials the past couple of months, i expect they expect the American People to believe. That ill become a onewoman squad and well start tonight. Mr. White . Congresswoman ferraro, id like to ask you about civil rights. You have in the past been a supporter of tuition tax credits for private parochial schools and also of constitutional amendment to ban bussing. Both of these measures opposed not only by your running mate but by every educational and Civil Rights Organization in the country. Now that youre mr. Mondales running mate, have you changed your position on either of those . With reference to the bussing vote that i cast in 1979, both mondale and i agree on the same goal, and that is nondiscrimination. I just dont agree on the same direction he does on how to achieve it. But i dont find any problem with that. I think thats been something thats been handled by the courts and not being handled by congress and will not be handle will by the white house. We support nondiscrimination and the integration of neighborhoods, the goals we both set forth. With reference to twiguition tr i represented a district is that is 70 catholic, my district. I have been a great supporter of Public School education. And that is something that fritz and i feel very, very strongly about for the future of this country. This administration over the past several years has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants which are moneys to young individuals who are poor and who cannot afford to go to college. It has reduced by 25 the amount of moneys going into College Education and by a third those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel strongly if you educate your children, that thats an effort and the way that you build up and make a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, i think youve got to go beyond that. If you look also at my record in the congress and Fritz Mondales record, both in the senate as Vice President , we both have extremely strong civil rights records. This administration does not. It has come in in the bob jones case on the side of segregated academies. It came in in the grove city case on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped and the elderly. And as a matter of fact, in the congress, we just passed overwhelmingly the civil rights bill of 1984 and this administration, the republicancontrolled senate, just killed it in the last week or two in congress. So theres a real difference between how the Mondale Ferraro administration will address the problems of civil rights and the failure of this administration, specifically in that particular area. And the area of affirmative action, what steps do you think government can take to increase the representation of minorities and women in the work force and the colleges and universities, and specifically would you support the use of quotas to achieve those goals . I do not support the use of quotas. Both mr. Mondale and i feel very strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe that steps should be taken both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. We have supported setasides for minority and womens businesses. Thats a positive thing. We dont feel that youre in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with firmz to help those who have been disfranchised. If you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody and affirmative action is a positive way to deal with the problem of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say that it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently perhaps encouraged that view by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibussing amendment, siding with Bob Jones University in a case before the Supreme Court, the original opposition to the Voting Rights act extension and so forth . Well, no, mr. White. I think our record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension. It was extended for the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. And i think our record deserves better. We have done more for black colleges than any Previous Administration. We favor enterprise zones to give its been blocked by tip oneill, and that house of representatives, those liberals in that house, blocked a new idea to bring jobs into the black communities across this country. And because its not an old handout special federal spending program, its blocked there. A good idea. And id like to see that try. Weve brought more civil rights cases and the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenage kids. The minimum wage differential, it says, look, to an employer, hire these guys. And yes, theyre willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job in a private sector. We threw out that old seta that didnt train people for jobs that existed, simply rammed them on to the government payreporter and put in a thing called the Job Training Partnership act. Wonderful new legislation thats helping blacks more and more. B we think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. For example, when crime figures are going in the right direction, thats good. Thats a civil right. Similarly, we think of it in terms of quality of life. And that means Interest Rates. You know, its funny mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you get out and try and buy a tv set or car or do whatever it is. And the Interest Rates when we left office were 21. 5 inflation. Is it a civil right to have that going right off the chart so youre busting every american family, those that can afford it the least . No. Weve got a good record. Weve got it on civil rights legislation, minority setasides, more help for biologicolleglack and offer people opportunity and hope instead of despair. Along those lines, sir, many recent studies have indicated that the poor and minorities have not really shared in the new prosperity generated by the current e