Introduce our extremely distinguished panel of american lincoln scholars. Lincolns speeches and the american idea. Naomi b lynn, the chair of lincoln studies at the university of springfield. The author of several books, including the inner world of abraham pleitgen, and the two volume american Abraham Lincoln light. As well as his new book, faith black mens president , Abraham Lincoln and the pursuit of racial equality. Professor of law, chair of the society of and frontal rector of the program on jewish and israeli law at harvard university. He is the author of nine books, including James Madison and his latest book, which we discussed tonight, a broken constitution, lincoln and the founding of america. Diana shelled is professor of Political Science and senior fellow at the American Enterprise institute. She publishes on American History. She is the author of several books, including and her new book is his greatest speeches, how lincoln moved the nation. Welcome noah feldman and diana schaub. Michael burlingame let us begin with you. Tell our friends why you argue in your new book that lincoln was the black mans president. You have several speeches of Frederick Douglass that you begin with, including in 1865, the eulogy on lincoln. He said no class of people has a better reason implementing the death of lincoln then have the colored people. What is the significance of that speech . Why do you hold that lincoln was the black mans president . Thank you very much for your kind introduction. Thank you very much for inviting me. I feel a little out of place because the central theme of my book is, lets not focus on lincolns speeches, writings and the like, lets focus on lincolns interactions with black people both in lincoln and washington. The title of the book comes from a eulogy from Frederick Douglass from june 1st in 1865 from coopers union. The premier cited the country to give a major speech. It was covered widely in the new york press. It has been on accountability ignored by historians in anthologies of douglass speeches. In this remarkable speech he says that Abraham Lincoln was pre eminently the white mans president. The first president to bow the prejudices of his time and the country. To invite me a black man to the white house. By that gesture Abraham Lincoln was saying he is the president of the black man as well as the white man, i mean to honor their rights as men and citizens. It is a striking contrast to the speech that is very wellknown, widely anthologized, commented on regularly which is a speech he gave 11 years later at the dedication of a statue of the emancipation memorial in washington. He said that Abraham Lincoln was preeminently the white mans president. I remember when i first encountered that speech in the douglass papers and manuscripts. I was astounded surely i would have seen this speech in the fine volume edition of douglass speech is that the yale press published, or the four volume study that philip foner had done i went back to the sources in those was not included it got me thinking about lincoln and race in general and then kate. Very fine historian, published an article recently on the white house reception and black peoples perception of white house perceptions my 2000page biography had a little bit to say about that but i thought, cheaper, how did i miss so much of this get information that she has on earth . I decided to plunge deeper into that subject which led me deeper and deeper into lincolns interactions with black people back in springfield and in washington. Lots of people know about lincolns interaction with Frederick Douglass, because douglas would describe them in his autobiographies to some detail, little have been down about lincolns interaction with other black people. Thanks to the enormous utility of modern word searchable newspaper databases, i was able to dig up a lot of information. Everything in print needs to be updated thanks to these databases thanks what i found was both in springfield and in washington, lincoln interacted with a large number of black people. All of whom commented on how respectful he was. How kind and generous, it wasnt just courtesy. It was gestures, and actions, based on appeals that they made. It indicates to my way of thinking that lincoln was and instinctive racial egalitarian. Fascinating, thank you so much for that. Thank you for calling our attention to the tremendous significance of digitize primary text. It has indeed transformed historic resort and indeed arent standing of lincoln. Well noah feldman, you argue so powerfully in your book that the original constitution of 1787 was broken. As you put it in the new york times, lincoln fatally injured the constitution of 1787. He constantly and willingly violated elements in the court institution not nearly understood by most americans in that time. By those actions he effectively broke the constitution of 1787, paving the way for something very different to replace it. Tell us more about your thesis in the broken constitution. Thank you jeff, it is an honor to be here with these distinguished scholars. I am a constitution person rather than a lincoln person, i came to this from the constitution itself. Among us who work on the founding in 1787, for the most part, there may be one or two exceptions, commonly accepted the constitution was a compromise document where one of the central compromises was the compromise over slavery. We have the three fifth compromise, famously. The guarantee that the International Slave trade remain for at least 20 years. We also have the fugitive slave cause. Requiring the states that did not recognize slavery on their own to acknowledge and then recognize slavery in itself. That is the setting for the way the constitution functions from that time up until the civil war. There were moments when the constitutional compromised seemed near breaking but congress, for the most part, managed to reinscribed that compromise with new reiterations. The missouri compromise being the most famous example of this. Lincoln very much supported that structure of compromise throughout his political career. Because we are mentioning speeches of lincoln, i will mention in this context, that diana has written very extensively. Lincolns address in springfield of 1838. Lincoln was actively defending the constitution, lincoln statement there that we should be aware of people like alexander the great or ceasar, or like napoleon who in their seeking of greatness would be willing to enslaved freeman, or to free enslaved people. That is an act that would be extraordinary and outside of the bounds of constitutional norms, which be wrongful. He would be clearly against this that is because the constitution and that then existed legally mandated the continued existence of slavery in those states that chose to have slavery. Thats lincolns view. Once he becomes president he confronts the reality that there have been secession by at least 7 states. He has to decide what to do about that. Of course that secession is a fundamental breaking of the constitution. Lincoln responded by himself breaking the constitution which i argue in three ways. I will mention each very briefly. The first is sort of surprising. We dont necessarily think of it is breaking the constitution. The decision to go to war unilaterally. To obligate the seceding states to return to the union not under a authority of the president or the whole government. The Buchanan Administration and the attorney general embraced by buchanan in his address, although secession was revolution the president , congress, no part of the federal government had no authority to force the states back into the union. Nothing in the constitution explicitly authorized it. Also the principle of consent of the govern. The southerners in those states had chosen to no longer give their consent to be governed. It violated that right to courts and back in. Lincoln unilaterally, eventually with the support of congress, took up arms to force them back in. The second was the suspension of habeas corpus. The right that says if the government grabs you up, you have to appear in court, give a reason, put you on trial, if you are not convicted let you go. Lincoln unilaterally suspended habeas corpus early in the war. He kept that suspension in place even after the Supreme Court, via the chief justice, or at least the Supreme Court justice raja tani issued a decision saying this with unconstitutional. Only congress has the ability to suspend. That is still the view of almost all constitutional scholars. The Supreme Court after the war also repudiated the idea that without a suspension by congress that martial law could be applied within the United States, where no war was going on. Lincoln did, that he did it extensively. He imprisoned between 15 and 40,000 people, there is a lot of debate of how many, over the course of the war without trial and without the opportunity to appear in court. This is the largest suppression of Free Expression in American History by a huge margin last but not least, much more uplifting lincoln also broke the constitution as he understood it when he issued the emancipation proclamation. Formally freeing enslaved people in areas that were under confederate control. Lincoln himself when the war began reiterated his commitment to the idea that slavery was constitutionally protected. I think we will talk a little bit tonight about his second inaugural address, the gettysburg address, the two you see when you walk into the lincoln memorial. The enshrinement, lincoln as a god. Based on the ian temple. We never hear the first inaugural address. It opens with him saying that he has neither the will nor the inclination or the constitutional power to change slavery, which he says is protected by the constitution. Lincoln, overtime, shifted in his view. In my book we spent a lot of detail time trying to show that shift, and he came to believe that it was somehow in his authority as commander in chief at that time to break the guarantee of property rights, break the fugitive slave clause. Quite literally would have said anyone who escapes would have had to be returned to slavery under the conditions of the war, lincoln in the emancipation proclamation said people who would escape would not be returned and become in fact permanently free. That is a morally good breaking of the constitution in my view but a breaking of it, nonetheless. Thank you so much, for that wonderful summary of your book and for calling our attention to the first inaugural. Diana schaub, im going to do something which may or may not work, which is to screen share. Because its a wonderful to have the text in front of us. Did that work . For the address . I think that everyone can see it, unless anyone objects. Your project is so inspiring to really do close readings of the light see him address and the address in the second inaugural. Theres so much here, we cant parse the whole thing but the thing that you mention about the rule of law and reason impassioned jumps out. But there may be other aspects of it that you want to call our attention to. So, tell us about how we should read the lyceum address. Maybe i can, for a minute, just Say Something about the overall thesis of the book. And then turn to the lyceum. So, yeah, the book, holding it here. Weve got books out, we should show them. Is a close reading, i believe in close and careful reading, of three lincoln speeches. First, the lie see him address, the speech he gave as a young man. And then the two most famous president ial addresses. The lyceum address in the second inaugural. Actually, when im struck by is how often lincoln anchored his speeches in dates, in significant dates. So, the lyceum address begins with the constitution and the date of 1787. The gettysburg address, as everyone knows, four score and seven years ago, takes us to 1776. The declaration of independence, thats where the lyceum address is anchored in. And then the second inaugural, i dont think this has maybe been noted enough, but it is actually anchored in 1619. If you do the math, the reference to 250 years of the slaves unrequited toil, that takes you to 1615. Hes of course rounding the number off. So, lincoln is aware of the origin date of slavery on the american continent. So, i argue that lincoln really tells the story of america and helps us understand america through these three significant dates. Those two texts and the relationship between those texts and slavery in the United States. So, i think the second inaugural really deserves to be known as the original and actually better 1619 project. So, to go to the lyceum address, the speech that he gives as a very young man. I think its a remarkable address, its a diagnosis of the dangers that lincoln sees abroad in the land at the time. More general diagnosis of the problems that democracy is always prone to. So, one of lincolns notes is the growing prevalence of mob rule throughout the nation. Breakdown of law and order. This breakdown is, triggered he is not talking about looting and rioting. Hes talking about vigilante justice, acts of vigilantism. These vigilantes are driven by their passion for justice, but they are running roughshod over the due process and rule of law. So, lincoln highlights this danger, he gives this diagnosis and then he proposes a solution. And his solution is reverence for the constitution and laws. So, his recommendation is law abiding. Not simply lawabiding, but a particular attitude in which one obey the laws. This attitude of reverence. So, thats his diagnosis of the present danger. But the second half of the speech is not about the present danger, but about future dangers. This is where lincolns analysis of passion is really developed. Here he goes back to a famous distinction that the ancient political philosophers always, used the distinction between the few and the many. So, lincoln says, what happens if a person of the founding type springs up after the founding . What is that person going to do, whats outlet for their vast ambition will be available . This is what he gives for his warning against the alexanders, the caesars and a napoleons. Those who wont be content to be the 41st or the 42nd or the 43rd president of the United States. Theyre not content to be a custodian in the house of the fathers. This ambition is presented as morally neutral. If there are good avenues to pursue, like the freeing of the slaves, that might be done. If the avenues of the good have already been trod, they will set boldly fourth enslaving free men. So, theres a problem of inordinate ambition and theres this problem on the part of the many. And that is these negative passions of human nature. Jealousy, envy, hatred, revenge. Lincoln says at the time of the founding, those passions were able to be harnessed toward good ends. You could hate the british and achieve liberty for yourself. But now and in the future, those passions will be dangerous. His denunciation of passion is very strong. Passion may have helped us by can do so no more. In the future, passion will be our enemy. I think it is significant to note, that lincoln always means by passion the negative passions. So, for instance, he doesnt mean bonds of affection, he doesnt mean friendship. You can look at, actually, the first inaugural, which also says the passion is the problem. Think of that last paragraph. Passion may have strained the bounds of affection, but we dont want it to separate us. So, his solution then for this future danger is reason. Hes got a double diagnosis. Mob rule, the present danger. Future danger, this problem of the passions. And then a double solution. The solution to the problem of mob rule is reverence for the constitution and laws. The solution to the dangers ahead of inordinate ambition and runaway passion is reason. I should probably stop there, but i try to explain how these two solutions could perhaps fit together. How can you recommend both reverence and reason. That was wonderful thank you so much for that, its so fascinating to read it closely with you. And youve helped me understand how deep that classical influence was. Because these devices of hate and avarice, indeed, the classical ones. He talks about the ruling passion, which is from cicero and aristotle, its always negative. And reason has to constrain it. And that we see, as you say, the ambition manifested by caesar and alexander are negative examples. So, thank you. I wasnt sure whether the screen sharing would work, but you always learn so much when you read closely. And thanks for inspiring us to do that. Now, for this next round, were going to use the gettysburg address as a jumping off point but i dont want to constrain us to close reading. But it is the anniversary in november, of the address, and it would be wonderful to hear all of your thoughts on it. As i call it up, michael, how does the gettysburg address fit into your thesis . That lincoln was the black mans president , and what do you want to tell us about the gettysburg address . Its been argued by some, including fine commentators, that its striking that the gettysburg address doesnt say anything about slavery. The word slavery doesnt appear. It appears clear to me that the new birth of freedom that lincoln refers to in the gettysburg address is a direct illusion to emancipation and, presumably, beyond that, of first class citizenship. Even though the address doesnt have a great deal to say about race and the like, the implication of a new birth of freedom does seem to herald not just the complete emancipation, extended not just to the Confederate States but throughout the country. Which happens with the 13th amendment. But also by implication of the 14th amendment and the 15th amendment, establishing civil rights for blacks and Voting Rights for blacks. Its implicit and that notion of a new birth of freedom. Lincolns support for black Voting Rights, for example, which wasnt articulated publicly until his last public address. Which, of course, he didnt know it is going to be his last public address, on april 11th, 1865. In which he, called for the firsttime, for blacks Voting Rights. At least limited black Voting Rights. That is to say, those who had served in the armed