Dr. Jen gunter celebrating the release of blood the science medicine mythology of. Dr. Is an internationally bestselling author. Gynecologist with more than three decades of experience. Her New York Times best selling books, vagina bible and the menopause manifesto been translated into 25 languages. She is the host of gen splaining, a cbc, amazon prime series that highlights the impact of misinformation on women and her 2020 tedx talk. Why cant we talk about periods . More than 2 million views in its first six months, leading to the launch of her podcast on the tedx Audio Collective body self with dr. Jen gunter, dr. Gunter will be in conversation. Dr. Michele harper. Dr. Is an Award Winning physician. New york times selling author and nationally recognized speaker whose work centers on individual healing social justice. Her debut, the beauty and breaking, was a New York Times book. So now, please me in welcoming to politics and prose dr. Jen gunter and dr. Michele harper. Hello, everybody my interest is like open up and talk about it and hello now which which microphone do you all want to see for this . Both oh, okay. Yeah. Lets keep our own show here. Thats wonderful. I take it on the road as well. Lovely to be here with you to meet in person and to be here with all of you as well. Jen you know, i think im going to start with an open question. When you were thinking about this book on blood , an excellent resource for, all of us, when it comes to the reasons why we bleed the reasons why we would have painful how to control the bleeding all the way to contraception and abortion. What inspired you to write this book so . Ill be honest. First of all, i decided to book deals, so i had to have a second book just full disclosure. But when i was on tour actually for the vagina bible. I noticed in the audience once we started talking about vaginas, people started asking questions about menopause. So i thought vaginas the last taboo, but apparently menopause. And so that is what inspired me to write the menopause manifesto. And then when i was on my virtual tour for menopause manifesto, i was really paying a lot of attention to what was going on online because, you know, youre on social media or youre promoting stuff you. And i really started to notice and this was during a pandemic that there was this uptick in conspiracy and disinformation about cycle and whether this a Natural Evolution or has come from, you know, false fears about fertility with the vaccines and a lot of fears about the Birth Control pill. And so i thought, you know i think theres really something to that and then i thought a lot about the first two books and how both times my editors had said you know i dont really understand what youre talking about with the cycle. You explain that in more detail and you know, here like, you know, these are like top editors and, you know, publishing houses and they are thinking that i need to explain all of the science because they didnt get it. So then i started to put all those kind of pieces together and i thought, you know, i bet more People Graduate High School knowing more about frog biology than, you know, their uterus works and. Im going to try to fix that next line and i think about this book. You know, itd be easy to say this book is for Health Providers or this book is for young women, want to learn more about their bodies, but do you how do you feel . Who do you envision audience to be . Well, i think this book is for everybody. And im not just saying that someone anybody to buy it, but they should. So first of all, if you have a uterus ovaries, you should know how it all works. These are your body parts and. If you dont know how it works, its very difficult to know when things are going wrong. And i give my own example in book about how having i had to terribly heavy periods as a teen and i didnt know they were heavy because nobody about what a normal period was. I mean knew they existed because of judy blume and because i read some stuff. 17 magazine, you know, back in the day. But apart from that, i didnt know anything about like the actual and so people should know that people, should know that so they can advocate in the doctors, so they can be aware of the snake oil that they might see online. But even people who should learn about it. You know what . Every Single Person is here in this room because someone had a cycle, right every Single Person is here because of that. And you probably love someone who has a cycle or have a child has a cycle or a friend. And if you want even take it a step further. We are here evolutionarily because of the cycle. This was an important and saying that gave us these big brains we have so you know we owe all to the cycle and so i think everybody should know about it because its also cool. Okay. And so you mentioned some of it earlier, some of the pressing concerns people have. And you practice clinically. And im just wondering, what are some of the common questions you get . And im also because youre very active on social media, very popular. Youre a great source of information there to is there overlap between what you receive the what you see posted on social media versus what you hear in clinic thats . A really great question. So let me lets go to the second one first. So absolutely i think that the questions that i get in the office are very similar to the stuff that i see online. I dont think theres much difference to it. And in fact, think, as most of my patients know, im pretty active online. You know, they actually i think maybe i get asked about some of those things sooner because they think i might have heard about it. So so theres that that the common questions that come up are the idea. Is it harmful to not have your period. And this is often comes up in that context of hormonal contraception and you know that thinking really reflects a lack of understanding the cycle because its totally fine if youre on hormonal to not have a period. However theres always a kernel of truth to everything. So if youre not on hormonal contraception, it is concerning. If youre not having a period, right . So you could see how the two could be conflate it because you dont have a period that could be a sign several different medical conditions. It could be a sign of an early menopause. Theres a lot of to know about. So those things kind of get confused and often the confusion is on purpose from people, of course, selling you a supplement to fix your cycle. But yeah, so that i would say thats a really common one. And i think a lot of people also have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept that its fine to not have a period on hormonal contraception means theres nothing there. Theres nothing building up thats not like, you know, its waiting for some, you know, avalanche to come at the most inopportune moments, like, you know, when that plane is taking off or something, right . That happened to me actually. So yeah, i thought, i was done. I was like eight months from my last period. So i was like, yeah, i was going to europe a trip. I didnt pack any pads or. Were taking off from san francisco. The seatbelt light is still on and. Its just like cause of course i couldnt have timed it any worse. So yeah, so. But its totally fine if youre on hormonal contraception. Yeah and when you mentioned periods and that being a common question about if its safe to not have one that makes me think of the apps that have come and period trackers which are relatively new right yeah well they this this sort of evolution absolute but you know when i started practicing medicine every obgyn had little branded card. Theres people here nodding. They probably had those cards and it had like three months of calendars on and you hand it, i was like Business Card but with that calendar, which is actually a really good idea because people come in and they dont know youre talking about having symptoms and youre feeling moody or youre having, you know, pain. Is it in related your cycle . I dont think about it. Heres card start tracking it. So the idea tracking your cycle to understand more about is very old and a good thing. But the apps have taken it to kind a different level and its kind of this quantified self, this idea that we need to track like every single, theres people with continuous glucose monitors who dont have diabetes, theres people monitoring their sleep with like a ring and checking their apps. All the and so what we theres a couple of here so one is we dont the algorithms for these apps so we dont know how accurate they are in we know that if youre just going by your cycle its not actually very active very accurate. And there was a study at women who were using trackers and and when they compared their cycles to what the app told them when their period came at a different they were more likely. Blame their body than blame the app for being incorrect. However when researchers put their data into you know sort of a real sort of real life situation, it was clear that the app was incorrect. So they may be making you less into with your body also. A lot of the apps ask people to record the of their blood and that can be the only explanation had probably in the last five years for people asking if the color through blood matters. Because i dont remember ever being asked that before. And then of course, if you live in a state where abortion is illegal, tracking can be used against you. So whether youre using a tracker or fertility awareness method that uses app, they can subpoena your phone, they can subpoena from the company and they can also just purchase your they can purchase metadata and it takes very amounts of information to pin where people are your phone pinging when youre in planned parenthood its pinging when youre in the pharmacy its so these are real concerns and i would say for someone who is living in a place where abortion is illegal in the book i actually some apps that keep all the information on the phone but its just something for people to be aware of right and that is increasingly important now and it might that it might just be better to use a form that that wouldnt be able to be tracked for safety reasons i would say for people who are just and they dont need that app fertility awareness methods. You can use the calendar on your phone, then no one knows what you know. You can come up with your own system. If you need the algorithm for your awareness method, then thats different and thats going to have to obviously be a trade off. And there are some different ways to make choices. But yeah, if its just because you want to track your period, there isnt really a reason to expose your privacy in that way. You know you mentioned menopause on the on the other side of the spectrum and im hearing more and more about menopause and were speaking about it as its not this kind of secret process that our elders are mothers arent or arent sharing about as much. Are you getting more questions about that . Are people more comfortable speaking about it, wanting to learn about it . Yeah. Yeah, my husband likes to say that. Well, since you wrote your everybodys talking menopause, im like, i dont think its just me, but but yeah, i think that, you know, many of us grew up not knowing much about. Certainly my mother didnt know anything about. It like she when she had her first period, she didnt even know what was going to come and menopause, i think it was probably the same for her and i think same for a lot of women. You know, weve both you know, weve diminished a lot of symptoms, diminished suffering. Weve very little studying about even what happens, the basics in menopause. And so now were seeing know i think some of its related to sort of you know coming of age and we have more People Living their lives online and its a lot easier sometimes talk about something in front of 100,000 strangers than it is to three people in person, which is kind weird. But i guess its its really i mean, you see people doing all these like testimonials on tiktok and and so i think thats the power of social media, but also a lot of snake oil that has recognized that gap in menopause right. And has stepped in with supplement and you know untested and other types of things. So the with every good theres always a bad you just have to be mindful of it. But i its great that were having these conversations mean we have so much ageism in the United States and you know this idea that the women are now just feeling more confident, are going platinum right now, going great. Wow. Its a level up. Yeah. And when you mentioned some of the the myths snake oils, im curious, what are some of the ones would warn people . You might hear about this online as a quick fix something easy and now i am for a holistic so when i ask this its with no shade at all. What are some some of the treatments you might caution people about . What are some ones that you are more likely to advocate . Right. So i think a big is that theres some kind of diet or supplement that can balance your hormones. So hormones dont get balance. Thats not even its even like its not even a good analogy. So there isnt anything you can eat or change that will affect how your ovaries produce estradiol. I mean, thats just not going to happen however eating a healthy a healthy balanced diet is really good for you. So for example, if eat 25 grams of fiber a day or more, have a lower rate of breast cancer, a lower rate of colon cancer, a lower rate of type two diabetes being is really good for your. So we could say indirectly thats very good thing. So focusing eating healthy really good. The idea that supplements can really do anything for you. I mean, i tell people supplements are unstuck, untested pharmaceuticals. The that they are you know, safe giving a mega dose of a vitamin isnt necessarily safe and especially youre looking at products that are designed say, hot flashes or for libido or metabolism boosters. Those are the ones that are more likely to be adultery with actual hormones. In one study that was just it was in jama just a few months ago looking at sport enhancers. There was one one supplement that was centum and with a substance thats never been tested in humans. So, you know, you have to be very mindful about that. Yeah. And, and i would say. And you can tell me if you disagree with me, like when it comes to supplement for example, just like when it comes to any kind of medication, its important where youre getting it from and its important the quality and the source of it. So i would yeah, it, it can be hard because theres, you know, supplements. Theres no theres absolutely no legislation. So you can you can basically do what you want. So, you know, we tell people that, you know, if youre going to take a supplement, you want to get one that maybe has a usb verified label on it because that that its been tested for contaminants and it should contain what it claims. So those are important and it gets confusing because there are some supplements that might be recommended so. For example, if youre vegan, we would recommend you take a b12 supplement because. Youre not getting it from your diet or if youre iron deficient, we would recommend that you take iron. So its that confusion and that sometimes theyre recommended that. Supplement companies are depending upon right there so well if its okay to take one supplement then it must be okay to take my ovary support and also look out for words like support and boost and enhance because theyre using those because they cant actually make a medical claim. So yeah. I know, i know one wants to hear that like a healthy diet, like no one wants to hear that. Yeah. Like i, get it . Its not sexy. It doesnt sell a book and and no one wants to hear. Its like, you know, and my other thing is, whats the best thing . Exercise, you know, whenever people ask me whats the best thing you can do in menopause, its exercise. Its aerobic exercise and resistance training. Dont you know, dont shoot the messenger i mean, its its it really is. I would say like an exercise where a pill wed all be clamoring to take it, you know, reduces your risk of heart disease. Type two diabetes dementia, osteoporosis, fractures. I mean, it goes on and on and on. So yeah, i that its helpful for every system and if its accessible you know if you have the blessing and the privilege of having the time to be able to do it if you if you live in an environment where, its safe for you to exercise it a blessing. Thats something that is seemingly as simple as exercise can benefit your whole body. Yeah. Would say like i take it i try to take a walk every lunch and its it honestly its life changing like when i go if i dont get out at lunch in afternoon, i find it so much harder. And when i go out, i just, you know, for 30 minutes, i mean, sometimes im just like around the block a couple of times its okay if you go a walk, you can have a latte. So you know, a little treats. You, i mean, even mental health. I know it is. Im very pavlovian. I get my coffee that works that well. We all have these little tricks. But yeah its and its hard because you especially a lot of women, especially, you know, when you have a, you know, a busy job, may have other responsibilities and, you know, even, you know, at work, women are more likely to take on emotional labor. Right. So theres all other layers that can make it difficult. And sometimes at the end of the day, youre just like, i just, you know, i just want to sit down. And so it can be it can be hard. It is it is a blessing and its also a privilege to have the time to be able to do it. That is that is, you know, and im thinking about we were about this a little bit. Workers in to writing a book just the massive project that it is to write a book to get a book published and timing this book coming out post jobs during an election year. I mean certainly, you couldnt have timed it this way. I mean, who can given given all the factors that go into but do you think that that somehow kind of heightens the the relevance of all these topics right at this particular historical. Yeah. I mean, i hope that that i help a lot people who are speaking up rights to have more language to be able discuss it, to be able to have the science to have the conversations. I mean it was was just last week that there was i think politician in wisconsin talking like how he knew about the reproductive cycle because hes a vet and im like were not cattle or i mean on and you know do you know the difference between actual cycle and the cycle i bet not. I hope hes watching. And i mean, that idea that that that in 2024 a human being would stand up and say, well, because i knew about animals, im. Like, what are you even talking about this of theres so much ignorance masquerading as knowledge. You know, people attach to it and they think that they everything and its really at this juncture time, i think it is so important for people to know all of the facts mean its important anyway because its your body and you should know how it works and youre the person who might get sick and youre the person who might 400 times, right . So sh