able to establish that this sipt just a bad luck mistake, everybody is trying to do their best but not fraud. that's the defense so far, and so far it's worked. >> what would be the potential penalty? civil is just a monetary fund. >> there are a lot of people doing a lot of time in prison for white collar crimes. the pemnalties are way up. the head of worldcom is doing more than 20 years. michael milken went to prison. >> a civil fine is just money. >> remember, bank of america is paying his legal fees, bank of america paid $150 million today to the s.e.c. to settle. >> taxpayer money is funding his legal fees, basically. >> the taxpayers are funding it indirectly, and the shareholders who in many respects are the victims of this are sub ssidizi.