ron wooten is the west virginia state mining director. are they a good operator or a bad operator in your estimation? >> i don't have an opinion on that particular question. i've seen them do good things. i've seen them do things not so good. >> reporter: one person told me, a source who chose to remain anonymous, told me that you were one of the worst operators in terms of the number of violations and the severity of those violations. >> we would disagree in terms of the condition of our mines. the number of violations can depend on what area you're operating in, what district, who the inspectors are and the whole host of issues. >> reporter: mine safety sources say they grow frustrated with a deep pockets industry and big money lawyers who challenge violations. isn't it true they can take you to court and they can spend a lot of money and they can drag this out and they can get the violation reduced and they can keep operating, tying you up in knots? >> they may be able to do that, but the real cost is when you