most of the first year was pick-up material. >> larry: you bought it from a photographer? >> right. >> larry: was the first issue a success? >> yes. hugely successful or i wouldn't be around for the second issue. but the second issue didn't have marilyn in it and it sold more than the first. it caught the attention of the people. in other words, it was the monroe nude in that first issue that got the initial attention. what made the magazine successful was the message. it was a lifestyle magazine for single guys. back in the 1950s, that was a revolution. >> larry: was there a centerfold in the first issue? >> yes, although it was a single page. >> larry: was there a centerfold in the second issue? >> single page. we didn't get to the -- >> larry: foldout? >> we didn't get that until the second or third year. >> larry: magazine is in trouble now. the world has changed. >> yes. >> larry: the arrival of the internet, right? >> yes. >> larry: can you make money off the internet? >> does anybody? >> larry: i don't know. >> some people, i guess.