that incite, inspiration, creativity, enthusiasm, self-reflection, all of these are not there. you know, and yet the -- >> deepak, i don't think we imply that they're not there. we -- we don't say that at all. >> you do say -- >> i feel inspiration, it doesn't have to be there as a result of god. >> no. there as a result of creativity, if you're totally determined then there's no place for creativity. right? so, you know, you have to -- stating this is a completely deterministic universe and denying us of this, calling it an illusion. you're depriving the universe of meaning. >> we're depriving the universe of -- we're depriving people of having little things floating above them, determining what they're doing outside the laws of nature, but my feelings, my feelings and my desires are as real if it's governed by physics