>> larry: deepak, if people talk to a heavenly father and believe from that talk they get solace, so what? >> yes, nobody objects to that. on the other hand, as father spitzer said, human beings have a need for meaning. now, you know, leonard and stephen hawking in the book categorically state that this is a deterministic universe, that therefore, free will is an illusion. by saying that, they also imply that incite, inspiration, creativity, enthusiasm, self-reflection, all of these are not there. you know, and yet the -- >> deepak, i don't think we imply that they're not there. we -- we don't say that at all. >> you do say -- >> i feel inspiration, it doesn't have to be there as a result of god. >> no. there as a result of creativity, if you're totally determined then there's no place for