the u.s. should get involved but there's no national security interest. >> let's remember, libya has important oil reserves. so you've got an energy national security interest alone. but let's remember, all across north africa, we've had a very active al qaeda presence and what do we know about al qaeda's presence in that region? they look for ungoverned states. to the extent we allow this chaos to continue without supporting the rebels and ensuring some government and rule of law structure there, we leave open the possibility that al qaeda will come in. there's no evidence they're there now, contrary to gadhafi's claims. i have talked to sources in the administration, in the intelligence community, there's no evidence that al qaeda is interfering right now. but if we leave it in chaos, if we leave an ungoverned state, they will come in. it's what they've done in yemen. >> what sort of message does -- if gadhafi is allowed to continue killing his people the way he has, and it is -- seems to be an unfair fight, all the