up to 10,000 now. is this working? is it worth it? >> right now i would say it's not working. i think what has to happen is, there has to be some leadership here, and i think the u.s. has got to provide some leadership of exactly what is the intended outcome that we want on the ground. i don't think it can continue to say regime change. have you to go back and take th protection of civilians, how do you do that? and i think in doing that, you could put pressure on gadhafi by retreating those forces that are attacking the safe areas. >> do you think this has to end with gadhafi going into exile? >> let me be very clear, he has the momentum now. you have to take that momentum away from him. there are five ways to take this momentum -- indiscriminate shelling of misrata is a case in point. it's clearly a violation. how do you punish him for doing that? i think you attack all those other elements of his power that