these voting machines that have been proven to be so incredibly unreliable, that are uncapable of actually reading what the marking is on a piece of paper. >> how has that been proved? >> it's been shown over and over again. in fact, the academic institutions that study our voting machines have shown, in fact, in wisconsin the machines that are being used are extremely vulnerable to human error, to machine error, to tampering, so in fact -- >> that's not what the secretary of state of wisconsin would say. >> well, the state of california which did a head to toe review made those machines illegal and the states of maryland and virginia are actually in the process of doing that. so we think voters across america are really entitled to having confidence in our vote and from there we can begin to address the other problems in the voting system.