incredible disturbance at a time when the country really needs to understand very quickly what is going on but there's no doubt because most of this attack, most of the effort, it wasn't just hacking. it was propaganda. it was online trolls and this was done overtly. it's just clear that it's happened. >> but there's a disadvantage for the government on this. there are no sources and methods so it's unsatisfying to read if you want to know the proof behind the accusation by the intelligence community, how do you bridge that? how do you create a consensus? >> they're delighted you're frustrated and don't know anything about the sources and methods because the only way we're able to steal secrets is