warrant. that means the fbi, twice, had to assemble an enormous amount of information, saying to a judge, look, there is probable cause to believe that paul manafort is an agent of foreign intelligence. they persuaded a judge twice. so there does exist considerable evidence. it doesn't mean he's guilty of anything. it is important. >> to emphasize two things you said there that i think are worthy of stating again. number one, there are tapes now in someone's possession of these conversations that paul manafort had. that is not something we knew beforehand. >> surveillance means, by definition, there are tapes. they weren't just listening. >> there are recordings. >> when you get a fisa warrant you get permission to make tapes of phone calls. >> that's the big deal. they are presumably in the hands of the mueller investigation. you bring up the point that this happened twice. the second time, it indicates that probably there was something found that first time