that he would look like he was trying to obstruct the investigation even if he came up with reasons like crossing that red line that would -- he'd use to justify it. i would doubt at this point that the president would head that way, but he is notably unpredictable. i have not heard anybody in congress suggest that np recent months, but of course, when mueller was first appointed and when we first heard about the tensions between the president and attorney general sessions, it was really over that issue. >> and, josh, we have also covered the president pardoning sheriff arpaio, so that too has come up in this conversation. could the president try to protect somebody indicted by the mueller probe? >> yeah. i think that would, again, be a very controversial move by the president to pardon anybody before all the facts are known, before mueller has a chance to complete his investigation. but i thoroughly agree with daf. we haven't seen a lot of ato