story -- is that in a civil case a jury can take into account a defendant pleading the fifth as -- as a negative where in a criminal case it doesn't mean that -- it's not to be taken one way or the other. but in a civil case a jury can think he is pleading the fifth because it's -- he doesn't want to answer it for because it makes him look bad. >> that's correct. in a federal civil matter if a witness pleads the fifth or invocation the fifth amendment or her fifth amendment right, the fact finder, whether judge or jury, is entitled to infer a negative inference if you will, which is they are entitled to infer from the invocation of the fifth amendment that the witness is guilty of whatever is asked, or that there is something negative that would result if the witness answered the question. it's a very powerful inference it would hold in our case. they want to delay the kwas. we don't want to. but what's stunning about this,