someone to have the gumption to get the tapes. >> why don't you see that as payback? >> i was a private citizen, that saw something i could do. and i did it and acknowledged it the moment i was asked about it publicly. i thought it was something that needed to be done. and a private citizen can talk about the conversations with the president. >> the average citizen doesn't think i'm going to leak this to force the creation of a special counsel. it was an extraordinary gambit. >> i don't take any joy in it, i don't accept the congratulations. but the average private citizen didn't have a one-on-one conversation with the president of the united states where he asked him to drop a criminal investigation and tweet that he hoped there weren't tapes. i was in a position to do