i don't understand what's so kpli complicated about this unless you're trying to hide things. >> giuliani this morning said it's very clear that president trump hasn't violated any campaign finance laws over this payment. he said the payment would have been made regardless of the presidential campaign, and even if it had been campaign related it wasn't a loan or expenditure because the president reimbursed it. is that right? >> no, that's not right. rudy giuliani evidently doesn't -- he claims to not know the facts, but he most assuredly does not know campaign finance law. that's not campaign finance law. rudy giuliani seems to believe that if the payment was not made with campaign dollars that somehow there is no campaign finance violation. that's not the law. i think it's clear that, look, if this $130,000 reimbursement was all aboveboard and they weren't trying to hide anything or trying to skirt campaign finance law, then why didn't the president just write a check or send a wire for $130,000 in reimbursement funds and be done with it? why this whole scheme about the invoices and the retainer and