he's just muddying the water, clouding the air and it's on purpose. >> chris, that stopped giuliani, didn't it? no, it did not. giuliani spoke to dana bash admitted that he had never talked to melania about stormy daniels, the first lady. but giuliani stands by what he said. here's what he told dana bash. yes, i believe she knows him well enough to know this one is -- what's the word? fakakta? >> why would giuliani double down speaking on behalf of the first lady, chris? >> i believe he's broadly freelancing and it's a pr strategy designed to sway public opinion and in particular the trump base public opinion, not broad scale public opinion. i think the reason why he would double down, don, is because he hasn't heard anything negative from the president of the united states about it. outside of that first rudy's new, we need to get his facts straight. that first smackdown about stormy daniels payments from donald trump to rudy giuliani, rudy giuliani has said a um until ber of things i thought donald trump is not going to be happy about that. or donald trump may just say out the door you go.