the policy of separating children from their parents at the border didn't, of course, just arouse passions in the united states. the pope spoke about it, backing u.s. catholic leaders who called it immoral. macron, trudeau, even the supreme leader of iran criticized the policy. and my guest, the u.n. human rights chief, said it was unconscionable and called on the practice to be halted. he joins me now from geneva. you quoted the american association of paediatrics and said this is essentially government-practiced child abuse. government-sanctioned child abuse. the administration's response, even though it has now reversed policy, has been to say, look,