just like it went down. the crime may be, what, an ftc violation? let's assume it went down exactly as everybody says -- >> we don't know what the violation -- >> ftc violation? >> but donald trump knew about it. he says he didn't. he learned in july a year after the meeting happened. but now there are these questions -- >> michael cohen, the gooey who ta guy who taped all his clients? w guy who taped all his clients? >> the strategy is collusion and confusion. that is absolutely the strategy in this administration. the strategy of rudy giuliani and he does it very well. he is so good at it. this is not by accident. because they want to submit in the minds of the american people especially his base who is on first, who is on second, who is on third. that is their strategy. >> you just think rudy is kind